It may sound stupid, but anyone know the melting

The General

The General

Joined
Jun 6, 2000
Messages
3,625
point of FRN? I used an oven at 150c to bake the Militech-1 product on some knives (20 mins) and the results were very very good!

Would this adversly effect either the washers used in Spyderco blades, G10 or Zytel/FRN?

Thank you.

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Wayne.
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
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A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
'in Spyderco I trust'
 
If someone from Spyderco doesn't know; if they tell you what type of nylon and the percentage of fiberglass reinforcement you can look it up at www.matweb.com
I looked up some combinations; they appear to melt at 200 or above. Don't know what the washers are made of.

Anthony Lasome

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AKTI member A000873

[This message has been edited by alasome (edited 06-28-2001).]
 
Hi General, I was wondering that myself lately. Not that I was going to melt any of my knives down, but I was thinking about mounting a metal clip onto a plastic Endura if the plastic clip broke off. Heat the clip on a stove, and would it melt itself into the handle? If it did, you could then drill a hole and use the new clip/lanyard hole screws.

Don't know if that would work, and I don't have any broken FRN clips. I saw one for sale, though.

Anyone know?

Karl
 
We'll melt one in R&D next week and see. I would prefer to do our own testing. I'll get back to you.

sal
 
:cool: Cheers Sal, I will look forward to the results. Is FRN and Zytel similar or exactly the same thing?
 
There are many "brands" of FRN (Fiberglass Reinforced Nylon). Zytel is the "brand" name for Dupont's FRN.

Technically, to call it "Zytel" when in fact one is using another brand, like Grivory, is illegal.

sal
 
:barf: Stupid of me! I thought they might be similar, but I had to ask. I have noticed though that your FRN seems more 'rigid' than many other makers like Gerber. The 'others' seem to have a more 'rubbery' feel? Is this the same stuff chemicaly, but treated diferently? Or a different mix of parts?

I am more interested in how the Spyderco FRN performs however.

Sal, thanks for taking the time on this one:D it is appreciated.
 
Originally posted by The General
:barf: Stupid of me! I thought they might be similar, but I had to ask. I have noticed though that your FRN seems more 'rigid' than many other makers like Gerber. The 'others' seem to have a more 'rubbery' feel? Is this the same stuff chemicaly, but treated diferently? Or a different mix of parts?
Click to expand...

I think I can cover this one for Sal. :cool:

FRN, as you know, means fiberglass reinforced nylon. The matrix, known as nylon, is a thermoset plastic that is actually tailor made by many different companies in proprietary formulas to accentuate different physical properties. To use Sal's examples, "Zytel" is one of Dupont's nylon formulations, while "Grivory" is one of EMS Chemical's forumlations. These nylon matrices can then be reinforced with varying quantities of short e-glass filaments in order to improve strength, rigidity, and wear characteristics. The final mix can include 10% to 60% glassfill. The more glass the stronger and more rigid the final plastic product, but it also becomes more brittle.

Spyderco (and other manufacturers) choose individual nylon formulations and glassfill mixes depending on the precise application. :)
 
Very interesting thread. Thank you, alasome, for the link. A super helfpul, fact-filled site.

Probably everybody looked up something on the charts. I didn't go back and do Grivory, since Sal didn't specifically say Spyderco used that product. Nevertheless, looked quickly at one of the Zytel products. Think it was called super something, and believe the glass may have been at 66%. (Obviously too quick a check!) Was amazed at the Rockwell # attached - well over 100. Melting point of 267 degrees F. It was listed as a general use product.

Can't help but think that if Sal clearly identifies the product(s) Spyderco or other manufacturers use for handles, that might be able to change some people's minds about the value of using FRNs. As I've posted before, my approx. 15-yr-old Gerber LUS can be cleaned up to the point that it looks just about new. Carried it for over a decade I'm sure. Would really like to compare handle materials after 10-15-20 years usage, just to see how they actually fare.

Guess maybe I'm just goofy, but it slays me that a "plastic" designed for impact resistance should prove to be far harder than any of the steels used for blades to go inside that handle material.
 
Hi Bugs. There are a number of areas where FRN will definitely out perform steel. Salt water is one example.

BTW, the hardnes of ovr 100 for FRN was not likely on the "C" scale which which steel is measured.

sal
 
Am I correct that the temp. used (150 degrees celcius) is about 300 degrees F.? I just figured it was 150 degrees F., but then reread the post.
I've read that you're supposed to heat the metal after applying the m-1, but I don't think using an oven would have crossed my mind. I've used a blow dryer to heat one knife, a ss harpy, but didn't see much difference in it's performance before and after. I certainly don't think I would've put a frn handled knife into an oven, especially at those temperatures, for fear of damaging it.
Frank
 
BTTT

This from the source.


A detailed strip of all old lubes (on Friction Points) is unnecessary for MILITEC-1 to be effective. Make sure on the pivot points to liberally apply MILITEC-1, and try to get as much Friction/Heat generated as possible. For the non friction points were an old lube is caked on, MILITEC-1 will not be as effective. An oven @ 150 degrees with a film of MILITEC-1 on your knives(That can withstand 150 degrees) for 20 minutes, will do wonders.


Now I doubt many ovens can heat to 150F (it is not very hot is it?) so I assume it is 150c?
 
Hey Safety Guy.....Why not send the knife back to Spyderco and let them install a new clip???? I hear they do that from time to time ... Or are you like me and like to experiment with things liek that????
 
Hi Royo!

I was just wondering, since I had seen a broken clip Endura for sale. I myself don't have one to experiment on.

But yeah, I am a bit of an experimenter!

Karl
 
Did I miss something? Did Sal ever get back to us on the melting point of FRN? Guess can do a search to check.

So far as ovens are concerned, I don't know much. The Whirlpool oven that came with my house when I bought it new 10 years ago is digitalized. Not sure, but I think the lowest temp one can set is 125F. I do know that ours is a "hot" oven, and recipe times must always be shortened a bit.

I also have a little toaster oven. I think maybe it's lowest setting is 200F.

It's been too long since I had science, and I barely learned the conversion of Fahrenheit to Celsius more years ago than many forumites have lived, I fear. The one correlation that always sticks in my mind, tho, is the boiling point of water. 100C = 212F. Sounds all too possible that if one tries 150C, one will be amelting their handles.

ANother demonstration of my scientific ignorance. Sal said that the hardness rating of FRN wasn't likely the Rockwell test. How many hardness testing systems are out there? One for each "kind" of manmade product?
 
Still waiting for the test results I think? My oven has a 50c for warming plates, so perhaps that would work? That would be near 150F and not be likely to damage FRN. THis is likely the sort of temps that a hairdryer would reach. That does work, but not as well.
 
I carried an Endura for years with a clip off of a Cold Steel Ultralock. I used the bolts and sleeve from the CS and went through the lanyard hole. It worked like a charm:)
 
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