Jacket/pants recs for cold weather hunting?

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Can someone recommend a not-too-expensive jacket/pants combo appropriate for still/stand hunting in near zero degree temps? Cabela's catalog is baffling with all of the various combinations. And, even their $200 jackets don't look that warm. Anyway, after reading through the catalog I have the following questions:

Is wool better than synthetics?
Is a 4-in-1 jacket that much of an advantage?
Do I really need camo pants or can I get away with just a camo jacket and some brown or green pants?
Are bib overalls necessary?
Is gore tex?
Is it just me or is real-tree ridiculous looking outside of a forest?

All advice appreciated.
 
well sir,
Your going to get opinions and predujices here. Might as well start off with mine.

Based on over fifty years of Hunting and Winter Camping, (and for nost of my life the two go together.) here are my views.

It depends. An outfit that works well in the high, dry country can get you killed in th lower, wetter country.

I live and hunt (now) primarily in Wisconsin. Archery season starts in September, anything from 50 -70 in the daytime and 30-50 at night, depending on where you're at. Anything from clear and sunny to cold rain.

Various seasons continue through January and Frbruary, it gets cold by then!

By Deer gun season (Thanksgiving week here) it's from 10-45 daytime, 0-30's at night, might rain, might snow, may or may not have snow on the ground.

I am talking about tent camping (not easy to dry your clothes out once they get wet).

And I'm talking about a combination of stand and still hunting.

Here goes;

is wool better than synthetics?

> Yes, some synthetics are almost as good, and down is a waste of money, once wet or damp it's hopeless. Several layers of light wool (80% wool is okay) work best.

Is a 4-in-1 jacket that much of an advantage?

>No.

Do I really need camo pants or can I get away with just a camo jacket and some brown or green pants?

> Camo not necessary, dark colors are enough. remember the first camoflage clothing was a Scots tartan.

Are bib overalls necessary?

>They'll keep you warmer in the cold, keeps warm air trapped in the kidney area, on a stand you'll be more comfortable.

Is gore tex?

>Some say it works for them, all I know is I've tried it on several occasions and found it worthless after a year or so.

Is it just me or is real-tree ridiculous looking outside of a forest?

>All camoflage is pretty silly looking outside the specific area it was designed for. Most camoflauge is way to dark, and your just a dark human shape to an animal.

So the outfit ends up like this:

Hat or warm cap (keeps your feet warm) 60% bodynheat lost through head.

Poly pro or good wicking synthetic long underwear. light wool would be better, but it's very hard to find. Silk is okay. If silk, another set in light wool over it.

Light wool shirt and pants .

another shirt and pants (1 size larger)

Water proof windproof jacket or coat over that. Not a waist length "cool" looking jacket. Lets in too much cold air.

2 pair of Light wool socks.

rubber bottom boots with felt liners, (La cross brand is outstanding)

Warm weather, open or shed a layer.

Wool does absorb moisture and get heavier, but it still keeps you warm when it's wet.

All your clothing should be "roomy", nothing snug or tight, especially boots.

No cotton anywhere except for your bandanna or handkerchief.

Use a bandanna or ski mask to cover your face (it shines, and deer do know what a human face is ).

On a stand , SIT STILL! ,never mind the bugs, or your "need" for a smoke, or the cold, or your "need" to take a leak, or eat a candy bar or scratch your butt. JUST SIT STILL! That's your best camoflauge.

Woodsmoke from a campfire is the best "cover scent " going. If you think you need it.

Still hunting, walk slow, stop every 10 or 20 steps for 4 or 5 minutes, while you're stopped, STAND STILL ! If there's one laying up nearby, it makes them nervous, the first one to move loses!

When you see a deer you like, shoot it!

Well, as I said, you'll get lots of opinions, those are just mine.

Good Luck,
Gary
 
Here are my personal opinions:

Is wool better than synthetics? Yes -greatly, and, wool dosen't make noise like most synthetics, dosen't bun if you like a camp fire.
Is a 4-in-1 jacket that much of an advantage? Only if you live someplace cold and like to wear a t-shirt/regular shirt, light sweater under it and take the coat off all at once when you go inside.
Do I really need camo pants or can I get away with just a camo jacket and some brown or green pants? Pass. This depends on who you ask.
Are bib overalls necessary? No, not necessary. But can be really helpful if you're built like I am and you coat/jacket rides up. The bibs keep your lower back and "belly" warm.
Is gore tex? I've found it grossly over rated.
Is it just me or is real-tree ridiculous looking outside of a forest? No, it's not just you.

I just use wicking longies, wool trousers, shirts and sweaters, (Levi's early in the season or when dry) and good LEATHER boots that are well treated.

I hate to say it, but my goretex and faketex coats and boots are used more around town...
 
for on the cheap, go with wool ( wool nylon blend ok too) Army surplus pants and jacket. Buy big enough to wear up to 2 layers of synthetic ie polypro tops and bottoms or a thinner polypro base layer and a thicker fleece layer. Can then adjust clothing for temp extremes. Army surplus has been washed and so preshrunk most of the time. gore tex is too noisy for bowhunting and not needed if only a light rain, your wool will shed a light rain. however a long sustained rain of any severity will soak the wool eventually but it does still seem warmer than synthetics in my opinion. wool does not retain as much odor. The main advantage I see for synthetics is a prolonged wet environment like the coastal rainforests or where weight reduction is a premium such as backpack hunting. that said, I wore a wool coat, wool pants, wool hat (along with waders and rain jacket) on my Alaskan moose float hunt and thought it did well.
 
The Case for Polyester Fleece as Insulation Layer(s):

> Polyester fleece absorbs less water than wool. Damp, it tends to dry as body heat drives the mositure out.
> Polyester fleece is more abrasion-resistant than wool.
> Polyester fleece is machine washable.
> Polyester fleece is hypo-allergenic.
> Polyester fleece is lighter than an equal thickness of wool = warmer for equal weight.
> Polyester fleece is soft against the skin.
> Polyester fleece garments are available from K-Mart amd WalMart pretty cheap (under $20.00). They are starting to show up at resale shops because they don't wear out (under $3- $10.00, but check the zippers).
> Polyester fleece garments are "quiet."

(All those nice European wool military garments are available on the surplus market because -- see above.)

I'd avoid "wind barrier" fleece. It has the wind barrier on the wrong side of the insulation and at least doubles the cost Just put a zippered wind-barrier layer over the fleece.
 
Cotton kills.
Fleece burns (quickly)
Wool itches.

I like Cabela's Thermax long johns (top & bottom) wool shirt, fleece top and bottom and my 'Don't Shoot Me" orange bibs with a shorty orange bomber jacket. Polypro under wool socks in Sorel Boots.

I carry the fleece top and the bibs on the walk up the mountain and put them on immediatly when I reach my stand. You've got to trap the body heat that you've built up by walking.

Layers are the key. If it gets warm, you can remove a layer. Cold, you can add a layer.
One year it was cold (low teens) on the first day of our hunt. The second day the temp went up into the 50's. I had dressed for the previous day's weather and wore my bibs over my long johns. I couldn't take the insulated bibs off because I had no pants underneath. Thought I would melt by the end of the mile and a half hike out!

So to answer your questions...
Is wool better than synthetics?
•yes, but not absolutely necessary...NO cotton
Is a 4-in-1 jacket that much of an advantage?
•If you don't have sweaters or similar layers yes. Otherwise not really.
Do I really need camo pants or can I get away with just a camo jacket and some brown or green pants?
•Subdued earth tones are enough. BUT if you are gun hunting do everyone a favor and wear some blaze orange.
Are bib overalls necessary?
•Personal preference. I like them because you don't get that draft at the small of your back when you sit.
Is gore tex all that?
• I have an Eddie Bauer parka that's 3 years old and still going strong. But I don't wear it hunting. It is noisey and I'd rather not hunt in the rain. For emergency rain wear I carry a poncho...to walk back to the truck in ;)
Is it just me or is real-tree ridiculous looking outside of a forest?
•Here's where I'll get flamed. IMNSHO Realtree and its clones look good on the rack, not in the woods. They visually blob at a distance and you can still see the man silhouette. I prefer large areas of color that break up the man shape. My all time favorite is the Italian Army pattern, but that is way hard to find.
The WW2 Marine pattern is good (look at the water fowling camo in the Cabela's catalog it is similar) as is the NATO woodie pattern. In pine forest the VN Tiger Stripes work well. Plain white in snow is amazing. Old time hunters wore red and black lumberjack plaid. Red for the other hunters, and big blocks of contrasting shades to hide the man shape from the deer.

Always check your background, you don't want to be skylined or be dressed like a bush in front of a rock. The line of your head and shoulders is a dead giveaway. You can break that up with a brimmed hat.

And Gary got it right when he said to sit still. I was very proud when a little bitty bird landed on the muzzle of my shotgun.

Good luck!
 
Wow - thanks for all the help!

O.K., based on everyone's recommendations, I searched the surplus sites and basically everywhere else and ended up back at Cabela's. Anyway, I found the following jacket and pants there that fit pretty well within my budget. Does this combo look warm enough for temps 0-20's during the day? As for layers, I have plenty of sweaters, hats and long underwear I could use. If the outer stuff is not warm enough, I'd consider moving up to a heavy weight, more expensive jacket like this wool one or this fleece one (I'm more partial to the fleece - looks heavier for the $$) I guess I would wear one of those with some random BDU pants over some heavy long underwear in order to fit within budget. Is the extra $120 really worth it for the more expensive jackets? I've never seen any of them close up, but something tells me it's not. But, I'm worried that the cheaper wool stuff from Columbia isn't enough either. The key is that I want to be able to wear this jacket for a bunch of years all the way down to as low as 0 degrees. I hate being cold - can't shoot straight. What do you'll think?

Incidentally, CheaperThanDirt has a pretty sweet looking rain parka for $50. I'm not going to buy it, but I thought someone might be interested.
 
I would strongly suggest that you not buy a "wind-stopper" garment.

Air trapped in garments - "dead" air - provides insulation. Therefore, the barrier to wind needs to be on the outside of the insulation, not in the middle of the insulation or, worst, inside it. Thus, with 'wind-stopper" you are paying a big premium for something that works less well than a densely woven nylon or poly-cotton (example: "mountain cloth") "wind-breaker" over fleece. Even densely woven wool over an insulation layer works better.

Imagine a house with the fiberglass insulation outside and the siding inside; that's "wind-stopper" construction.
 
Everyone has a different tolerance to cold.
I have a friend that runs around in shorts when I'm looking for a sweatshirt.

What you don't want to do is scrimp on the undergarments. Those old heavy cotton longjohns will hold moisture, like sweat, and cool you off instead of keeping you warm.
Even with the 'best' parka out there, if you are damp underneath you won't be toasty. The best you could hope for is hot and sweaty.

I've had my eye on that first wool jacket for a while. I also like the Filson Cruiser in red/black checks that Cabela's has too ;)
 
No Avatar,

The first jacket and pants you noted look real good, NOT IMO the Weatherby or the fleece (because of the price and the "windstopper".) Expensive gimmicks that won't work well for you.

Cant stress enough to avoid cotton or cotton/poly fabrics (like most BDU's).

Zero degrees in the mountains or high desert can fool you, you don't feel cold, but you will be.

Zero degrees in the midwest with higher humidity and a little wind can be truly miserable.

Sweaters wool? fine. Acrylic? not very fine at all, but 1000% better than cotton..

The poly pro or thermax type long underwear is fine, if you definitely think 2 pair. No cotton.

You might look toward Malone or Woolrich for pants and Shirt under your pants and coat. 80% wool 20% synthetic is fine and will wear longer than all but the best pure wool. filson Wool garments and Codet are excellent but pricey. (And they're worth every penny)

Cheap and recycled wool is scratchey and itchy, Good wool is not. You need long underwear anyhow.

Definitely think layers, YOU DO NOT want to sweat!
Ebbtide is giving you good advice. Layers make temperature control easy.

I carry a GI poncho for exreme rain or wind, $25 max. Lately a Swiss version, even cheaper. I've tried rain parkas, they don't usually hold up very well in thick brush.

Everyones tolerance is different, it's hard to go from a 70 degree apartment to 10 below or 10 above temps in one day. Acclimation takes longer than that, thats why I usually still tent camp during winter hunting season.

Something of a standing joke in Wisconsin. Almost everyone is on their stands by 4:00 AM openeing day.

Then just before light, here come the guys that were the life of the party last night. Nice of them to drive deer for the rest of us, because that's what they're doing.

Then between 8:30 and 9:30 there are a lot of other guys roaming the woods, also driving deer for those of us still on stand. This crowd is the group that got too cold to sit still another moment. 9 out of 10 times these are the guys in Levis (cotton) or cotton long johns, or similarly unsuitably clothed. No matter what coat or jacket they are wearing.

don't forget shivering is ther first sign of hypo-thermia, if that happens, time to start moving, back to your camp, car or truck is the suggested direction.

Snacks can help a lot, chocolate of course, I always carry some bags of "combos" (incredible calories per handful) or/and one of those little 8 oz. fruitcake bars from the grocery store (bout a million calories there too). Things like that can make a big difference in your enjoyment of the day and the Hunt. sort of a "stoke up the inner fires" sort of thinking.

Good Luck,
Gary
 
WOOL,WOOL, AND MORE WOOL! Some of the better long underwear with wool pants, and maybe the poly fleece on top. Check out the various military surplus wool outer garments at Cheaper than Dirt . Wear a hat.
As faras color, if you're hunting deer, it probably doesn't matter. Again, the mil. stuff in drab green is fine. :D
Good Luck
Ricardo
 
Well if you live around Rochester Ny,I can hook you up. 4 in 1 gore tex,thinsulate,fleece lined,$250 in the stores for $85,bibs made of the same for $45.First rate gear,from a rep friend. :)
 
Lone Hunter, that's a great offer, but I'm nowhere nearby. Thanks, though!

Based on what everyone has said, it looks like I'm going to go with the Columbia wool jacket and pants linked above. Although I've used windstopper fleece before in an around the town jacket, and I do think it's better than regular fleece, I agree it would make more sense with the barrier on the outside. Anyway, the point is, it's not worth the money and that's the bottom line. I've never given so much thought to long underwear before, but I definitely have to check the stuff I have laying around to make sure it's up to spec. Otherwise, cheaperthandirt has tons of it. Good thing, because I saw some wool bottoms elsewhere for $85! I don't think I have one pair of pants that cost that much.

Another question - how would these pants work for winter hunting? Too light?

Thanks again everyone for helping out a newbie.
 
WOOL.

I have used some of the new fleece pile and they work pretty good but none has been as warm as my old wool stuff. I rode motorcycles for 35 years and tried all kinds of stuff under my leathers for winter riding. If it was mid-winter nothing worked better than my old British army sweater over a Woolritch shirt with my leather jacket over all. under my chaps was german army wool pants.

Sitting on a BMW going down the road at 60mph has to be worse than a deer stand in the winter, but I could ride for a couple of hours in January and just be a little cold after a while.
 
Have you guys tried anything from Johnson Woolen Mills?

http://www.johnsonwoolenmills.com/

Being in the south, I've got mostly cotton... I need to mix in some stuff that isnt quite as "cold" when its damp out! Cotton sweat shirts are great, unless its raining :eek:
 
So, I got the Columbia jacket from Cabella's I linked to below. Overall, it was not what I was expecting. It was about as heavy as a normal fleece jacket, but not much longer than waist length and not very substantial overall. I guess you get what you pay for. I will say that the camo pattern was subtle (which I like) and the wool was very soft and not itchy, but it was more of what I would consider a "fall" jacket than a winter one. So, it's already headed back to Cabella's. I checked into Johnson Woolen Mills and kingofthemountain.com, and their stuff looks great, but is way over my budget. I'm just not out there enough to justify a $400 jacket or jacket "system." So, I think I'm going to check into the Weatherby wool jacket I linked below. Anyone have any other suggestions?
 
Try Sierra Traders. They have an on-line store, discount prices, and are very reputable.

Buy your own "system." Looking around, $145 can score a Woolrich Mountain Parka (parka length, hooded nylon with wool-blend liner -- buy large to fit over the insulation layers), a 200 wt. Polartech vest and jacket and a hooded 300 wt. Polartech jacket. That would not keep serious rain off, but it would handle keeping your torso warm in bitter cold and provide flexibility for less cold. Fleece pants under nylon running pants would handle the lower body.

Polyester fleece is available under $30 from many sources. It does not say "Sierra Designs," "North Face," or "Wilderness Experience," but it insulates just as well.
 
I just picked up a Filson field coat, their oil cloth with a thin liner. It's meant for going over a sweater or flannel shirt, but is pretty warm by itself and more comfortable than it looks. I plan on using it for winter hikes in the snow and rain. I tried their wool weekender and was a little disappointed, it doesn't have the same fit as their field coat (probably because the field coat is for going over heavier clothes) and was pretty scratchy. Their merino wool socks (expensive) are excellent though- they kept me warm up in Ely MN and I didn't sweat.
 
I'm shortly going to be relocating from the UK to Springfield Vermont, I've got a Filson Tin Cruiser with a wool liner, a Filson Double Mac, and a Filson Wool Vest. I plan to pick up some wool pants (Codet or Cabelas). what else am I going to need to get through my first winter in Vermont, general outdoor activities and rediscovering my hunting and shooting skills (its so difficult to shoot in the UK :grumpy: ). Any advise would be welcome :)

Cheers

Shaun
 
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