Photos Kepharts...They just Work

My version by Mark Hill is about to get a proper outing, purchased in December. It seems plenty pointy enough for my intentions, but I won’t be hunting. Mind you, he did a lot of hunting as it goes. The thing I can’t get over is the weight of his knife. Mine is thinner at the spine and still significantly heavier than his claim. The wood is oak, but even taking that into account, the maths do not work out [English, we say ‘maths’].

Having read, ‘Our Southern Highlanders’, and other texts, I think that Kephart was part scoundrel. And I toast him for it, and celebrate him for it. I also think he may not have owned digital callipers and scales. ;)
 
Horace Kephart was pretty well known, and was a published author.

Oddly, he died in a car wreck.
On a trip to see a moonshine still. He wrote extensively about that, and was a big proponent of establishing Appalachian moonshine stills as legit businesses, akin to the Scottish Highlands. Prohibition sort of killed that, I think.
 
Horace Kephart was pretty well known, and was a published author.
I think being a national author garnered more credibility in 1900 than it would necessarily today. The world has changed a lot in the last 100 years in terms of information availability and many other things. He was actually more than "well known" after he became involved in trying to help convince people of going with the idea of the Great Smoky Mountain National Park. But I don't know really what that equates to in terms of influence. The park formation effort went for years before it came to fruition. That's understandable considering that I believe essentially all the land was privately held at the time. They did name a peak after him, Mt. Kephart. That is pretty significant to me.
 
...Having read, ‘Our Southern Highlanders’, and other texts, I think that Kephart was part scoundrel. And I toast him for it, and celebrate him for it. I also think he may not have owned digital calipers and scales. ;)
He was definitely part scoundrel. That is why many with current values do not look at his life with a lot of praise. He was an alcoholic as best I can tell (maybe a bit crazy, but very smart) and I think stills were very important to him and something he knew as an author "civilized" people outside the region would find interesting. The reasons for the stills was to make "cash" money for the mountain folks and transporting corn outside the area was very expensive with the poor roads and transportation options available around Bryson City NC. We're not generally talking about big farms in the river valleys. The movie Sgt York captured a lot of this as well.
 
I don't think Horace gave much thought to metallurgy.
He wanted a knife that would accomplish the tasks he needed, and fill the spot.
It wasn't a "one knife for all things", as much as a " knife for knife chores".
He didn't use a knife like an axe to split would or abuse it in the way alot of people do today.
He would spend many months in places where you couldn't just walk out and get a new blade, so he had to take care of the tools he had, and use the right tool for the job.

I don't know that deep thoughts on metallurgy came into play, though with him being a librarian it is certainly possible. But as you say he would spend a lot of time deep in the mountains, so with him being a man of above average intelligence I think it would be reasonable to assume he would have also put some thought toward the durability of his tools as well. With so many old knives that have been found in drawers and boxes in old houses, on farms, and in antique shops having broken tips, I do not think it would take a metallurgist to worry about the fragility of a tool they planned to carry into the back country. If I were going to be "primitive living" in the backwoods again, something I did a good deal of in the 80s trapping and fishing commercially, I'd like my knife to work for knife chores as well. Some of those chores would be field craft applications of carving notches and such, and others would be for de-boning the large hunks of meat of large game animals. Both of which I prefer a pointier blade for. Luckily today I can finda more durable knife with a pointy blade than I could in many cases just back in the 70s when I was a kid.

I generally prefer a fairly pointy blade style in the woods. We'll never know what Horace Kephart would do today. I don't think he was a real knife designer as you are Mist. He never shows a diagram/sketch of the "Kephart" knife in his books. Rather he shows a trailing point saber ground knife that is more pointy. People have said it was a Tops knife that he sketched. I like the Fiddleback Kephart, but it really isn't true to pattern and probably should be called a modified Kephart or something if they like the name. That was my point earlier (without going back an re-reading what I actually said).

I don't know how "famous" H. Kephart was in the outdoor world at the time. But I suspect the original was named that to capitalize on his name. That's okay as far as I'm concerned.

A good pointy trailing point is a good thing to have when living off the land, great for large game and fish as well. Just sort specialized and a bit fragile, not really suited as a "workhorse" knife for most people, which is most likely why the drop point hunter came along. More durability in the backwoods. I agree with you on the modified part. If I had to make a guess I would say it was because Andy was, like me, never drawn to the traditional Kephart blade pattern, but had people asking him to make them anyway. So by putting out his own version of it, that likely stopped those requests.
 
My version by Mark Hill is about to get a proper outing, purchased in December. It seems plenty pointy enough for my intentions, but I won’t be hunting. Mind you, he did a lot of hunting as it goes. The thing I can’t get over is the weight of his knife. Mine is thinner at the spine and still significantly heavier than his claim. The wood is oak, but even taking that into account, the maths do not work out [English, we say ‘maths’].

Having read, ‘Our Southern Highlanders’, and other texts, I think that Kephart was part scoundrel. And I toast him for it, and celebrate him for it. I also think he may not have owned digital callipers and scales. ;)

Your MH version, like Joe Flower's Condor version, and a few others like maybe LT Wrights iteration, and even Ray Laconico's version are all more pointy than some others I have seen on this forum. Oddly enough a lot of people seem o make them less pointy than the original that was supposed to be Mr. Kepharts, which I would have been okay with his. It's all the blunt-nosed repros that I don't care much for that leave me shaking my head and wondering why they made their versions even less pointy than the original. Different strokes for different folks though.
 
I don't know that deep thoughts on metallurgy came into play, though with him being a librarian it is certainly possible. But as you say he would spend a lot of time deep in the mountains, so with him being a man of above average intelligence I think it would be reasonable to assume he would have also put some thought toward the durability of his tools as well. With so many old knives that have been found in drawers and boxes in old houses, on farms, and in antique shops having broken tips, I do not think it would take a metallurgist to worry about the fragility of a tool they planned to carry into the back country. If I were going to be "primitive living" in the backwoods again, something I did a good deal of in the 80s trapping and fishing commercially, I'd like my knife to work for knife chores as well. Some of those chores would be field craft applications of carving notches and such, and others would be for de-boning the large hunks of meat of large game animals. Both of which I prefer a pointier blade for. Luckily today I can finda more durable knife with a pointy blade than I could in many cases just back in the 70s when I was a kid.



A good pointy trailing point is a good thing to have when living off the land, great for large game and fish as well. Just sort specialized and a bit fragile, not really suited as a "workhorse" knife for most people, which is most likely why the drop point hunter came along. More durability in the backwoods. I agree with you on the modified part. If I had to make a guess I would say it was because Andy was, like me, never drawn to the traditional Kephart blade pattern, but had people asking him to make them anyway. So by putting out his own version of it, that likely stopped those requests.
Maybe the reason for the less pointy spear point design on the Kephart was in fact to make it less pointy and as a result stronger. I wasn't drawn to the Kephart design at first either because primarily I prefer a pointier blade for what I do. As time passed, I became drawn to it and wanted "a" Kephart beyond the Joe Flower's Condor version; something better but still capturing the spirit of the original design. I understand the weakness potential of a trailing point blade in the outdoors. But I seldom really use a knife hard anyway and not planning on any long term survival in the wilds. Regardless, I would still be comfortable with the trailing point, but would pay attention on potential chores that might actually break off the point.

Your MH version, like Joe Flower's Condor version, and a few others like maybe LT Wrights iteration, and even Ray Laconico's version are all more pointy than some others I have seen on this forum. Oddly enough a lot of people seem o make them less pointy than the original that was supposed to be Mr. Kepharts, which I would have been okay with his. It's all the blunt-nosed repros that I don't care much for that leave me shaking my head and wondering why they made their versions even less pointy than the original. Different strokes for different folks though.
I can honestly tell you that a Kephart is not the knife I would choose to open a bunch of clam shell store packaging. I do prefer pointier designs, but the classic drop point hunter that I think is geared toward skinning is not one that really wowed me over. I do own drop points. It's kind of hard to not own a drop point if you like knives. The drop point design of the GEC Bull Nose/Sod Buster knife that is well loved is precisely why I don't care for it.
 
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Like a lot have already seen, here's a custom Kephart I commishioned to be made for me. I opted for 3V steel and a square spine (like it or not) along with a FFG. Green canvas Micarta sanded down to 120 grit for grip. I almost forgot, Peter's heat treat.
I'm really a carbon steel kinda guy. I don't know what got into me.
I will tell you this...theres not another one just like her.
Sorry about the cell phone pic.
 
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Maybe the reason for the less pointy spear point design on the Kephart was in fact to make it less pointy and as a result stronger. I wasn't drawn to the Kephart design at first either because primarily I prefer a pointier blade for what I do. As time passed, I became drawn to it and wanted "a" Kephart beyond the Joe Flower's Condor version; something better but still capturing the spirit of the original design. I understand the weakness potential of a trailing point blade in the outdoors. But I seldom really use a knife hard anyway and not planning on any long term survival in the wilds. Regardless, I would still be comfortable with the trailing point, but would pay attention on potential chores that might actually break off the point.

I can honestly tell you that a Kephart is not the knife I would choose to open a bunch of clam shell store packaging. I do prefer pointier designs, but the classic drop point hunter that I think is geared toward skinning is not one that really wowed me over. I do own drop points. It's kind of hard to not own a drop point if you like knives. The drop point design of the GEC Bull Nose/Sod Buster knife that is well loved is precisely why I don't care for it.

I think that strength was likely the reason for that shape at that time. Or like a couple of old knives I have it could have just started with a finer tip that didn't survive use. But the whole blade making process has undergone much refinement over the years since then, with new formulations and finer grain structures, better heat treatments and cryo-quenching that didn't exist then. I would take Andy's mid-tech Kephart to the wilds in a heart beat, knowing what I know now, after testing Peters' heat treat and quench of that steel in that particular blade shape. but every old pilots knife I have ever run across...as much as I love their fine clipped points for reasons, has had a broken or blunted tip. Having snapped one of those tips myself I get the issue and would know it was coming if I over-stressed the tip, and may choose another knife depending on the environment I was going into even though I couldn't be more comfortable with a knife model than I am with that exact one after years of using one under high stress circumstances in my childhood and youth.

And yeah, I totally get that. Most of the drop points I am drawn to are a lot like the ones I have designed for myself and my own uses over the years, with more point and less belly. My issues with blunt tips goes back about 30 years. To the trauma created in digging a locust thorn, that had broken off below the the surface of the skin, out of my calf muscle with a Buck 103. That sucked!
 
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Lon Humphrey (LH) 3V vs Becker Kephart (1095): This is purely observational. I like both. They are different kinds of knives with both sharing the Kephart spear point. The Becker is lighter with thinner blade stock. It is a little pointier and the thinner blade stock will likely make piercing things easier. Both handles are about 4" long. The LH is certainly a better looking knife, but I would expect that. The Becker is flat ground and the LH is convex (scandi) ground. 4.5" vs 5".... I think both knives are equal in the use dexterity department with the Becker maybe getting the nod due to less weight. The LH is certainly stronger with nearly 1/8" bar stock and would certainly take field abuse better and as a result likely more durable. Hand comfort is about equal with the LH being more rounded versus the flatter Becker.

I will use both and see how I feel about them after using a bit. I suspect the Becker will be easier to sharpen. It currently has a razor edge (stropped) but I suspect the 3V will hold an edge longer with use.

Mist mentioned pointy-ness of the Kephart. It is something I honestly didn't consider when I picked up the LH. But I see his point on this and tend to agree with him. I like pointy knives.

If I had to pierce things such as clam shell packaging, I would choose the Becker. But I think I could deal with that task with either knife.
 
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I have owned the Humphrey Kephart for a couple days now. The pointiness is the biggest issue for me as well as the overall steel thickness. It should be sub-1/8". Last year I purchased the White River Backpacker Pro which pretty much replaced two Beckers (BK-14 and BK-24) if I want a small fixed blade with me. Or I carry one of my Doziers. I like the pointy design of the Backpacker even though it is a drop point.

So, on the Humphrey Kephart, the question I have is "Would I buy it again knowing my preferences and use characteristics?" Probably not, but still pondering this. This is actually a shame considering I just bought it. It will eventually be absorbed into the pile of knives I have and I will use it in the woods for now to get better acquainted with it. For a Kephart, it's pretty beastly.
 
I have owned the Humphrey Kephart for a couple days now. The pointiness is the biggest issue for me as well as the overall steel thickness. It should be sub-1/8". Last year I purchased the White River Backpacker Pro which pretty much replaced two Beckers (BK-14 and BK-24) if I want a small fixed blade with me. Or I carry one of my Doziers. I like the pointy design of the Backpacker even though it is a drop point.

So, on the Humphrey Kephart, the question I have is "Would I buy it again knowing my preferences and use characteristics?" Probably not, but still pondering this. This is actually a shame considering I just bought it. It will eventually be absorbed into the pile of knives I have and I will use it in the woods for now to get better acquainted with it. For a Kephart, it's pretty beastly.

I sometimes think maybe we have to have run across and used what we really like certain characteristics of for a while, even if we don't process it as such at the time, and then pick up and use something we really do not like by comparison to get that we really liked what we had.

When Dad and I moved to Florida when I was 9, I had a nice German made hunting knife in carbon steel that I loved and it went everywhere I did. Unfortunately I knew nothing of salt water and the effects it could have on high carbon steel. In a short amount of time the knife ended up getting wet, sheath and all, on a fishing trip and left that way in the boat all week. The blade was in rough shape by the next weekend. Dad took me to the Cutlery Shop at the mall and I picked up a Buck 102 because of the similar pointy trailing tip I was used to and it was a lot like Dad's fillet knives that lived in the boat I also used a lot. So I started collecting Buck knives over the years and a 103 was among them. Later, on a hunting trip in northern Tennessee, I had taken the 103 thinking the skinning knife was the appropriate knife for the trip. Only to learn later that the 102 would have worked just as well for the hunting, and would have worked much better for digging out a locust thorn buried in my calf muscle.

To this day I still own a Buck 102, and i gave that 103 away many years ago. I also still own my old Schrade Golden Spike trailing point hunting knife, several pilot survival knives and a Navy MK-3 MOD-0. But currently only drop points I own other than ones I designed myself are a couple of Fiddlebacks that are very pointy.

I hung out with Ethan while he was developing the Tweener line. I went up and hung out with him a few times that weren't gatherings during that process. When he first did the prototypes he showed me the 16 first and wouldn't let me play with the 17 until I had actually played with the 16 because he knew where my heart would lie. I miss the 17 and hate it was discontinued but such is life. I may clip and swedge a 16 later when i have time :) I knew from the discussions during that time he wanted to do a Kephart. Living in the Smokies was probably one of the inspirations for that too. But mostly, and you can see the influence in the 16, he had grown up using a Puma hunting knife just like I had. The difference is he carried the Hunters Pal and a small pointy bladed folder in his youth and did more hunting. I had grown up using a Puma skinner with a trailing point. But then moved to Florida and did a lot more fishing than hunting. I wore shorts all the time and essentially lived in the water. So I seldom carried a folder then and got used to doing everything with a my Buck 102 and then later went to a Buck 117.

When it comes to blade profile preferences it's as much what you get comfortable using in the early years as anything I guess. You can see the Hunter's Pal and Kephart influences in Ethan's BK-11, and I carried one of those for a while because I preferred the secure purchase of the handle over other simple handle designs on the market after so many years of working with my hands coated with blood, oils, and fish slime as a commercial fisherman, and from blood and tallow from hunting. I'm glad he finally got to make his Kephart, and I will buy one just because it's Ethan's dream come true. But I doubt I'll use it as it is n't pointy enough to suit me and i already know that, I'll just save it to remember conversations with him. He knows I like pointy. He has the very first Tibo ever, #R-001, that I gave him in thanks for his friendship, mentoring, and overall good influences in my own life. The world could stand a few more people like Ethan in it.
 
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I sometimes think maybe we have to have run across and used what we really like certain characteristics of for a while, even if we don't process it as such at the time, and then pick up and use something we really do not like by comparison to get that we really liked what we had.

When Dad and I moved to Florida when I was 9, I had a nice German made hunting knife in carbon steel that I loved and it went everywhere I did. Unfortunately I knew nothing of salt water and the effects it could have on high carbon steel. In a short amount of time the knife ended up getting wet, sheath and all, on a fishing trip and left that way in the boat all week. The blade was in rough shape by the next weekend. Dad took me to the Cutlery Shop at the mall and I picked up a Buck 102 because of the similar pointy trailing tip I was used to and it was a lot like Dad's fillet knives that lived in the boat I also used a lot. So I started collecting Buck knives over the years and a 103 was among them. Later, on a hunting trip in northern Tennessee, I had taken the 103 thinking the skinning knife was the appropriate knife for the trip. Only to learn later that the 102 would have worked just as well for the hunting, and would have worked much better for digging out a locust thorn buried in my calf muscle.

To this day I still own a Buck 102, and i gave that 103 away many years ago. I also still own my old Schrade Golden Spike trailing point hunting knife, several pilot survival knives and a Navy MK-3 MOD-0. But currently only drop points I own other than ones I designed myself are a couple of Fiddlebacks that are very pointy.

I hung out with Ethan while he was developing the Tweener line. I went up and hung out with him a few times that weren't gatherings during that process. When he first did the prototypes he showed me the 16 first and wouldn't let me play with the 17 until I had actually played with the 16 because he knew where my heart would lie. I miss the 17 and hate it was discontinued but such is life. I make clip and swedge a 16 later when i have time :) I knew from the discussions during that time he wanted to do a Kephart. Living in the Smokies was probably one of the inspirations for that too. But mostly, and you can see the influence in the 16, he had grown up using a Puma hunting knife just like I had. The difference is he carried the Hunters Pal and a small pointy bladed folder in his youth and did more hunting. I had grown up using a Puma skinner with a trailing point. But then moved to Florida and did a lot more fishing than hunting. I wore shorts all the time and essentially lived in the water. So I seldom carried a folder then and got used to doing everything with a my Buck 102 and then later went to a Buck 117.

When it comes to blade profile preferences it's as much what you get comfortable using in the early years as anything I guess. You can see the Hunter's Pal and Kephart influences in Ethan's BK-11, and I carried one of those for a while because I preferred the secure purchase of the handle over other simple handle designs on the market after so many years of working with my hands coated with blood, oils, and fish slime as a commercial fisherman, and from blood and tallow from hunting. I'm glad he finally got to make his Kephart, and I will buy one just because it's Ethan's dream come true. But I doubt I'll use it as it is n't pointy enough to suit me and i already know that, I'll just save it to remember conversations with him. He knows I like pointy. He has the very first Tibo ever, #R-001, that I gave him in thanks for his friendship, mentoring, and overall good influences in my own life. The world could stand a few more people like Ethan in it.
A real pleasure to read this, Brian, as always.
 
I think our early years of using knives has TREMENDOUS influence over our choices later in life. For example, as a kid although I liked knives, I could see little point in carrying a fixed blade over a folder even for woods use or hunting chores. I had a Case two bladed Barlow (with clip and pen) that I used for everything. I never broke the tip off the clip blade. I certainly could have as I had thing at the time about carving my initials into older Beech trees that grew in the bottom below our house (what we call "the crick") and cutting into old thick bark and prying bark off with a clip blade certainly was pushing it.

I only bought a fixed blade after the Rambo movies came out. Of course, my first was a EK bowie and coming to my senses more, a 4" 440C handmade knife (drop point) for hunting. Randall's came shortly after... Hunting was pretty much why I purchased fixed blades. There were no thoughts of making anything in the woods. I could cut tent stakes, weinie sticks, or a forked branch to pick up a pot with most any knife.

The Kephart design clearly reflects the metallurgy of the day with Kephart wanting a durable knife for many woods tasks. He always carried a slippie.... stockman or jack knife when a pointier knife was called for or for more precise cutting. I still think the design is a good one with the strong point/tip. But I was not immediately enamored with the design other than I wanted the Joe Flowers Condor Kephart which was inexpensive.

I am going to use the Humphrey Kephart for a general purpose woods knife. I do always have a folder with me as well. The combination will work for me if I want it to. But I have a number of general purpose woods knives. So, I always have choices. I still really like the Becker BK-15 trailing point for woods use. It originally was relatively inexpensive and a knife that if I broke it somehow, it wasn't the end of the world. That changed when Kabar discontinued the knife along with the BK-17.

I really like the Becker BK-62 Kephart. But I wonder how much the liking is due to historical fondness for the Smoky Mts versus using the knife. I view it as a non-hard use knife, but sufficiently strong for most everything I might do.
 
I think I've gone a bit the other direction, but a lot of that is because I don't hunt like I did as a kid after moving to an urban area for work and after getting married. Really, the hunting stopped after moving to a small city for school though. So my tastes have gravitated towards less point options as it's what I think works well for camping and woodcrafting, which I do a lot more outdoors than I do hunting or fishing anymore.

However, I love a good trailing or high clippoint like was on fillet knives and my 118 growing up. I love the looks and feel of a high point but I do have a tendency to poke myself with them and now that most of my use is for EDC and around other people, it seems like the lower the tip the less people get offended, thus I often have a slipjoint sheeps foot on me. Or a pretty deep drop point. I think clip points bring up images of hunting knives and killing animals and people don't get along with that as well, especially in the laboratory environment.

So that has influenced my flavor a lot over the past decade so I've learned to get on well without a really pointy tip. Though, I've not become accustomed to something with no tip like a spey blade. Really, I think this shows in my love for improved trappers with clip points and wharn/sheeps blade pairs.
 
I'll miss Ethan when his time comes. He is getting older, has heath issues, and we don't live forever.

As an after thought..... I love to visit Bass Pro, REI, Cabelas, Gander Mt when they were around for all the outdoor stuff they sold, and similar stores. But frankly, I have a huge assortment of outdoor stuff available to me at home. I keep looking for a camo shirt jacket for trout fishing with pockets (two side and two chest high) to keep my fishing stuff in if I don't wear a vest. Plus I believe the camo helps not spooking trout. The one I commonly wear is like 30 years old and old style camo. Knives are sort of like this.... your history and likes nudge you toward another knife even when you don't even need it.
 
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I think I've gone a bit the other direction, but a lot of that is because I don't hunt like I did as a kid after moving to an urban area for work and after getting married. Really, the hunting stopped after moving to a small city for school though. So my tastes have gravitated towards less point options as it's what I think works well for camping and woodcrafting, which I do a lot more outdoors than I do hunting or fishing anymore.
<snip>
So that has influenced my flavor a lot over the past decade so I've learned to get on well without a really pointy tip. Though, I've not become accustomed to something with no tip like a spey blade. Really, I think this shows in my love for improved trappers with clip points and wharn/sheeps blade pairs.
My life is similar. I moved to Dallas Texas the day I graduated from college. I refused to pay to hunt and hunting options were pretty limited to someone not knowing anyone or refusing to pay for a lease or pay to hunt in general. To this day, I wish I would have taken a few ranchers up on their offers of a free hunt (deer and feral hog mostly), but I felt like I was taking advantage of my situation at the time and turned them down. I have spent a lot of time inside some of the largest high fence ranches in Texas.... weeks at a time and move to the next one. Now, I developed a meat allergy and completely stopped even trying to hunt and have become the typical city guy who might hunt every few years. Still love to fish, but it is purely catch & release for me. Camping and hiking, yeah. Love it, but I'm getting older and can certainly appreciate a motel room or cabin instead of a tent.
 
The only point I shy away from is the trailingpoint, as I tend to catch up on things that shouldn't be cut.
Spear-, drop-,clip-, or straightpoint are of no troubles for my needs.
I sure like my spearpoints and if I need a pointier tip, I'll use the Leatherman anyway.

In the LM toolkit resting on the bottom of my small shoulderbag there is also a punch, for making screwholes.
The LM has been perfect when an oarlock come loose due to rot. This has happened at 3 times when fishing from whatever old boat we could find.
The repair was quick by paddling to the shore and look for a piece of wood. The saw, knife and punch + screwdriver came in very handy at those times.

For regular cutting tasks the spearpoints works as well as any good knife, but for light duty camping, mealprocessing or cleaning a Trout I mostly prefer the Fällkniven F2 boning knife. This one is a redesigned & rehandled older version of the F2 with a 4,5 mm spine and full distaltaper to the tip .(Today they are 2,5 mm.)
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attachment.phpsc3.jpg

The BK 62 looks very good and Mr Becker is to be saluted for this effort!



Regards
Mikael
 
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