Recommendation? Kitchen knives in super steels?

[Taz]

If people are used to Japanese knives, they arent trying to cut bones or hard ingredients typically with it. I use different knives (nitro v or aebl typically) for boning out stuff or hard ingredients and use something very thin and hard for my all around knife for boneless stuff, veggies, etc.

 

[RokJok]

The missus does not care as much about this as I do so you can imagine the knives are not in great working condition!

Now I would like a chefs and paring knife that I can enjoy for life with less maintenance.

This part of original request for info on easily maintained knives & their makers seems to have fallen off the radar of this thread. Let's remember that they already have high level Japanese knives, but find the maintenance intrusive.

Corrosion resistant steel is the prime operative consideration is my take on the original request. That the OP then specifies super steels as preference is in service to the stainlessness criterion.

And since eye candy is in short supply among all this steel discussion, here are my two most used mid-size kitchen boys. Nakiri in unknown carbon steel somehow always feels sharper, after approximately equal sharpening, than the AEB-L Scrapyard WD5 below it at least partially because nakiri spine is almost exactly half as thick as WD5 spine (~1.4mm vs 2.8mm).

 

[ace]

Good point. Really depends on how much the OP wants to spend and what specific style he is looking for. For people whom like and believe that chef knives supposed to be thin Matt is hard to top https://msicardcutlery.com/knives-for-sale/ some are available and he also does customs. I have a few of his knives and they are very good. He tends to make thin, laser type knives even though he has made thicker, mid-weight style knives too. Even his thinner knives tend to have at least some convexity so they perform better than many other thin chefs. For a good mid-weight that is almost corrosion free kaeru here is hard to pass https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/kaeru-kasumi-stainless-gyuto-240mm/ the price,we pay is the lower of the two and right now there is 15% discount on top of that. There are many other choices, but to give better recommendations more info from the OP is needed.

 

[Aardvark]

This part of original request for info on easily maintained knives & their makers seems to have fallen off the radar of this thread. Let's remember that they already have high level Japanese knives, but find the maintenance intrusive.

Corrosion resistant steel is the prime operative consideration is my take on the original request. That the OP then specifies super steels as preference is in service to the stainlessness criterion.

And since eye candy is in short supply among all this steel discussion, here are my two most used mid-size kitchen boys. Nakiri in unknown carbon steel somehow always feels sharper, after approximately equal sharpening, than the AEB-L Scrapyard WD5 below it at least partially because nakiri spine is almost exactly half as thick as WD5 spine (~1.4mm vs 2.8mm).
View attachment 2735708

Apologize for the thread-veer, but can you tell us something more about the nakiri: blade length, who made it, where I might get one?
It has that most-used, favorite look to it.

 

[RokJok]

Apologize for the thread-veer, but can you tell us something more about the nakiri: blade length, who made it, where I might get one?
It has that most-used, favorite look to it.

Blade is 6⅛" from point of heel to where nose radius straightens out vertically. Handle is 4.5" with 2" exposed tang on top, embedded by wood on the bottom.

It's a commercially manufactured knife. I have no idea who made it. I originally got it at a garage sale IIRC and gave it to my wife at the time, who used it a lot & seemed to like/appreciate it. When purchased it had some divots/chips in the edge and mushrooming along the spine. So this poor old warhorse had likely been hammered through frozen product, maybe chicken bones too is my guess. The blade/handle junction is straight. Parallax in picture makes it look crooked.

As for obtaining similar, I'd say use the dimensions, particularly thin spine thickness, to shop the usual vendors of authentic Japanese kitchen knives. Unfortunately, the market is so flooded with fakes & clones right now that dealing with the traditional players in the market, who have long-established relationships with in-country makers, carries more weight than ever.

 

[Aardvark]

Thanks for that clear and insightful response. The warhorse is lucky to finally be in good hands.

 

[Alex Topfer]

(With the proviso i only work in carbon steel) there are makers doing stuff in AEBL and Magnacut. Get it with a fully composite handle
AEBL is quite tough at a given hardness compared to most other stainless. It's also cheap, that would be my go to

as Crag the Brewer said you're not cutting sandpaper or wood, so abrasion resistance is less important than ability to hold a thin edge. The large amount of carbide in some high alloy steels can lead to carbides chipping out of the edges, so you get something that's sharp-ish but not the really fine edge some of us like

And since apparently we want eye candy (80crv2 so not relevant to the topic)

 

[Flu5h]

New to the community and glad I found you guys, because I have the same curiosity about kitchen super steels. I like the sound of 14C28N and AEB-L for the home kitchen with lighter use and semi-regular maintenance.

I butcher 2500 chickens a summer, in batches of 200 at a time, and I'm really curious about magnacut for a boning knife. It seems like the sweetspot for toughness is 62-63 for magnacut, even though people want it higher for other uses, it's in that range where it really stands out from the standard toughness/edge retention curve. Does slicing through cartilage and sometimes bony condyles on chicken joints actually chip blades, or does it just quickly wear down your standard 1.4116(?) at 56 HRC kitchen knife edge? I've been wondering if magnacut would be able to withstand 200 pairs of chicken feet, sometimes slicing bony tips, without needing to stop to hone or switch knives.

I'm just learning to sharpen, so I know the first step is to take what I'm learning and see what I can do with my standard no-frills boning knives. But if curiosity serves, I'm sure the chickens wouldn't mind.

 

[SCTorrero]

Are you resharpening your regular boning knife during that process (meaning on a stone, removing material)? Or just honing/stropping?

I don’t know if a particular Magnacut knife will meet your requirements, but the abrasion resistance will be better than what you have been using. Abrasion resistance being just one component of “edge retention.”

Do you need stainless?

 

[Flu5h]

Are you resharpening your regular boning knife during that process (meaning on a stone, removing material)? Or just honing/stropping?

I don’t know if a particular Magnacut knife will meet your requirements, but the abrasion resistance will be better than what you have been using. Abrasion resistance being just one component of “edge retention.”

Do you need stainless?

Last season my boss started using some kind of belt sharpener, but it wasn’t working any better than before when we were using some awful, worn pull-through sharpener/honer. He told me he had trouble forming a burr, so maybe we can work together to make that more effective.

Usually I switch knives half way through and out of frustration attempt to use the pull through to give me something a little better 1-2x. In light of all my recent learning, I’ve probably just been cutting with a burr at best.

Either way, I got a diamond stone and strop and am practicing on various kitchen knives and edc now.

The reason I’m wondering about magnacut is really about slicing bone and cartilage. I don’t intend it, but it happens throughout. It has a slow, smooth feeling which makes me wonder if it’s more chipping or abrading the blade. Seems like better steel could be a helpful factor here, but if geometry alone can get a blade to last through a session, then it doesn’t really matter to me.

 

[Taz]

A belt sharpener may overheat the edge, leading to it softening if he isn't careful. Or it could be leaving a burr? Try the belt sander with light pressure, then deburring and see how that goes. It should work pretty quickly, but often leaves a nasty burr on steels. The burr breaks off, and then sometimes you are left with a flat spot instead of an apex at the edge, depending on how thick the burr is.

AEB-L is very tough and should work well with accidental bone contact. I use Magnacut with a stupidly thin edge in the kitchen on cheap plastic board at home often and it hasn't been chipped or anything, but I don't do bone in stuff. If it doesn't need to be stainless, 3V can be VERY tough and durable with thin edges.

 

[sodak]

I average about 50 - 100 chickens a year, but only butcher them down to a whole chicken. I break them down in the kitchen just prior to cooking. I have small caping knives in 3V, but AEB-L would probably be just as good. They way we do it, there's not a lot of cutting required, and for the legs and wings, I go through the joints. Sometimes it's hard for me to find the correct spot in the neck, and I have an old cleaver that makes cutting the head off fast and easy.

 

[Flu5h]

It is a pretty wet environment, we’re constantly hosing down the table, and the knives basically live outside (the barn). So I think stainless is pretty important— I could take better care of a nicer knife, but stainless would be ideal.

I wonder what’s happening at the microscopic level, and whether the structure of bone as a kind of calcified sponge is chipping at the blade or just wearing it down.

Typically a butcher just goes for thick, strong blades for bones, and they use a saw for the toughest ones. Since I’m just doing chickens once every 2 weeks, slicing feet and the scent gland at my station, maybe it’s a special case for a harder steel.

 

[SCTorrero]

AEB-L or a similar variant is probably where I would start. So, AEB-L, 14C28N, Nitro V, or similar. Nitro x7 is a new one with some really interesting properties (see link below). Magnacut is good too. Others would include, without limitation, s45vn, Elmax, s35vn, SPY 27, or even s90v. The issue will be whether those steels with increased abrasion resistance have the edge stability and sharpenability you are looking for, given what you are cutting and the attendant conditions. It may be something you need to experiment with, which is an unsatisfying response.

I think the safest bet would be hard 14c28n with good geometry (I do not think Nitro x7 is widely available at this time). The more aggressive approach would be to find/build something in s90v and see if it chips or is otherwise problematic in use. If so, you could try to change the geometry or move to a steel with more suitable properties and continue the trial-and-error from there.

One final thought would be to contact some custom makers to get their thoughts.

Good luck!