knife attack - how to react?!

J

J.Vervoorst

Joined
Jul 18, 2002
Messages
657
Hi,
this story was in the local news here a few days ago, happened really close to my hometown:
A 20 year old was riding the train to his workplace. In the train he was approached by three teenagers who wanted money. He didn't want to give any to them (duh!) so they started pushing him around. Next thing he knows they're beating the crap out of him and want his train ticket and money. One guy pulled a knife and held it to his throat. He then gave them what they wanted and they left the train at the next station. They were caught by police later, but the kid is in the hospital nonetheless.
Now, what sickens me the most and drives me steamin' mad is that there were other people in that train and they did nothing. As a German, I have to say that I am ashamed of those cowards!
Now the important question: how should I have reacted? I'm a pretty small guy, not really strong and have no martial arts background. I have practiced a little knife fighting, but not seriously. What should I have done? Pull my knife, walk up to them and then what? How do you handle 3 guys at once and more importantly, I only want to hurt them, not kill them (I'd go to jail for a long time for that, that's Germany for you right there)
All advice from 'knowing' and experienced members of this forum is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance,
Jan
 
I guess I would scan for the another guy in ear-shot and say loudly "Can you help me?" to draw the attention of the other passengers who are also witnesses and to make him feel ashamed enough to help.

If I had to physically defend myself I would hit first and try and use the narrow isle to allow me to tackle them one at a time.

Sadly this kind of thing happens quite often in some places over here on public transport, or even on the street in broad daylight. The scum know that no-one is armed, and the police are no-where to be seen. People ignore the situation and let it happen very often.

Thus, I always have something that can be used as a weapon in my hand when on a bus or train. I also carry a back-pack with an A4 notepad inside which could be an 'improvised' shield.
 
Are you telling me that if you were to attempt to defend yourself and the result was one or more dead, you would be prosecuted?
 
Unfortunately, if you get in the middle of it, you have to prepare to fight, and prepare for the possibility of getting hurt.

If you are not willing to accept either of those possibilities, try to draw the attention of the authorities or others who are.

With 3 guys, you have to move very fast. In other words, know what you are doing.
 
Were you carrying a weapon of any type? If not, suprise is going to have to be on your side. No need to ask if you can help or any crap like that it has already escaladed way past the point of words. I would pull on the trains emergency stop pull cord and while everyone else was wondering what the hell for a second or two I would be grabing hair and chopping throats and gouging eyes from behind the group working from the back to the front. If you lose the element of suprise then it's getting down to business time. If someone wants to also step in and help,good if not you better keep moving and hitting, once you go on the defense againt larger numbers you can count on a beat down and gorilla stomping of a lifetime.
Sorry to hear about some of your fellow Germans, I am sure if 50% of the rest of the railcar stood up and told the punks "no you won't and if you try we'll throw your ass'es out the moving train" things would have gone very differently.
Take care and best of luck. Dean, Jan,time to hit the gym and Dojo
 
Dean C. and all others,
thanks for the information. Some of your points were exactly what I was thinking: move quickly!!!
Weapons (gun) carry is out of question in Germany (we are such a peaceful society after all :barf: ) so I'd have to rely on the tools I carry 24-7: Benchmade Stryker and Busse Assault Shaker. I'm still working on a Strider (EB-T or GB, but no money :grumpy: ) I'd personally go slashing away at the face and hands in an ice-pick (edge forward) grip, seems the most natural to me.
Dean, you're right about hitting the dojo, seems like that is the only way to gain control of such a situation without the use of weapons. I'll pursue my project to make my own impact kerambit out of a thick piece of G10 over christmas. Any good resources for training? Problem is I live in Germany and would maybe need a training video or book or something like that?!
 
Mr. Vervoorst: Might I suggest you look into a collapsible baton? They are VERY effective weapons, and give a much needed advantage of distance between yourself and attacker, whereas with a knife, you obviously have to be closer to use it.

Also; if you really feel that you are in danger where you live, work, etc.; first consider moving or changing jobs, if at all possible.

Second, just consider this: Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. :cool:

Stay safe
Drjones
 
You could get a nice heavy crook top walking stick and pretend to walk with a slight limp!
 
The thing is, things as such happen so incredibly fast most of the time, that I assume the chance is great that by the time you would have come round to doing anything at all, whether you were armed at that time or not, the poor bloke would already have had the knife to his throat. If so, there is little one can do, except risking the situation to escalate even further. I mean, since we do not live in Colombia or so, chances are good that once they have what they came for, they will know they have nothing to gain and a lot to lose by slitting a throat in a full rail car.
The point I am trying to make is that in many cases it does seem wise, when outnumbered by an armed group, to comply when the pocket change on you is all they seek. Hardly worth dying for. Don't get me wrong, I too do carry a EDC with a potential defensive purpose, but only to be used when attacked, not when robbed.

Just my two cents..

Christiaan.
 
easyway:
give them money, call the police and remeber their escape route.

hardway:
if you chose to fright, as you are 1 to 3 it is difficult to just hurt them and you could survive. you got to make up you mind to kill! In a train , keep you distance to line them up so you are "ALMOST" 1 to 1, don't get surrounded.
 
Originally posted by mrtaibin
easyway:
give them money, call the police and remeber their escape route.

hardway:
if you chose to fright, as you are 1 to 3 it is difficult to just hurt them and you could survive. you got to make up you mind to kill! In a train , keep you distance to line them up so you are "ALMOST" 1 to 1, don't get surrounded.
Click to expand...

This assumes that you have a fighting chance even one to one. If you don't know what to do. Don't get into it.

Here is a little true story.

My friend and 2 of his friends had a street altercation. He had quite a bit of dojo training but no real fighting experience, medium size guy. One of his friends had substantially less dojo training, but was a big guy. The last on had no training, skinny medium size guy. They took on 5 street thugs.

My friend took on three guys. The other two had the leisure to fight one-on-one. However, they were not much meaner than they were trained and were beat up, but not nearly as bad as first guy.

My friend lost most of his teeth that day and had his back badly hurt. You see, he was on the floor being kicked and stomped repeatedly in the head and body by 3 guys. He was a tough guy and healed quickly, only took 5 weeks. No permanent damage except for a mouth full of replacement procelain and plastic.

I doubt the thugs in germany are any more warm and friendly than the ones here.
 
yes! I don't recommend to start a fight

so I suggest the easyway 1st! as you can earn you money back very soon.

If you really wants to fight, don't think as the movie hero just knock down those bg, it is impossible in 1 to 3 situration. You really have the determine to kill them, as they did!
 
Agree. While it's hard on the male ego to stand back and watch those things happen, the best thing to do is to get a good description and report it to the police ASAP.

You can be the biggest, meanest, baddest mother f***er on the block and you're going to get hurt at 3 to 1 odds. Been there, done that. Glad it was only in a training scenario.
 
I won't rule out everybody with those odds, there are some bad mofos out there that can handle it and more, but for your average person with little or no experience, you are right. Three to one means you find out if you can do the 3 minute mile.

The deciding factor is this, experience. Experienced badguys are calmer and their intent is clear in a fight. They don't think about themselves, they only think about taking you out, anyway they can, while fulfilling any other objective they may have. They are predators, and view sheeple as prey.

If they are intent to do you harm, then you must have equal commitment to do them harm.

That's the hard part, no amount of controlled training will give you the heart to inflict real damage. Experience is the only teacher.
 
I concur. My previous post took the position for the average person with little/no training or experience.

I realize that some of us on the forum have some training and could probably do some damage. The biggest thing is mental focus. You've got to want to win and not want to not loose. Two different mindsets; significant difference in how you'll fight. Much of that does come from experience. Having said that, Dean's correct. You've gotta get surprise on your side and try to make it as much of a one-on-one as best you can.
 
It's too bad you can't use a gun. Here in the U.S. I wouldn't hesitate to pull my .45 if I had to take on 3 guys, even if they were unarmed. You run the risk of serious bodily injury or death, no matter how well trained you are. 3 guys can seriously mess you up, especially if they are packing blades.
 
Just give them what they want..... most won't hurt you if you comply.
 
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