Knife Laws

[BladesmanUSA]

I live in California, the knife laws here can vary from county to county. As a general rule of thumb all fixed blades have to be open carry, folders have to have a 3 inch blade or less. No spring loaded knives, butterfly knives, switchblades, or knives designed to look like everyday objects.
My question is this, if a knife can be confiscated by the cops as a concealed weapon ( depending on length) why is carrying a 12inch Bowie knife ok so long as they can see it?
I think intent is far more important than the knife you carry.

 

[BillZee]

If your concerned about carrying in your pocket ........get a belt sheath.

 

[Mister Coffee]

I live in California, the knife laws here can vary from county to county. As a general rule of thumb all fixed blades have to be open carry, folders have to have a 3 inch blade or less. No spring loaded knives, butterfly knives, switchblades, or knives designed to look like everyday objects.
My question is this, if a knife can be confiscated by the cops as a concealed weapon ( depending on length) why is carrying a 12inch Bowie knife ok so long as they can see it?
I think intent is far more important than the knife you carry.

1) As I understand it, you can carry any sized folder you like, as long as it is concealed, including the pocket clip (state law, not local ordinances).

2) The reason they want to see your 12-in Bowie knife is that concealment is like a sucker punch. If nobody can see it, then nobody knows what's going on, so nobody can defend themselves.

3) Intent? I suppose a smartypants lawyer could argue that if you left your house with any knife at all, it was with the "intent" to use it. That makes you not so innocent in the eyes of a jury. Maybe.

By the way, I am not an expert, and, generally speaking, I am baffled by the whole situation.

 

[BladesmanUSA]

Not concerned about that. Just curious about the laws.

If your concerned about carrying in your pocket ........get a belt sheath.

 

[crn3371]

I live in CA and I’m under the impression that there is no restriction on folding knife length. Also, automatics are permitted provided the blade is 2” or less. Fixed blades must be exposed.

 

[jbmonkey]

I live in California, the knife laws here can vary from county to county. As a general rule of thumb all fixed blades have to be open carry, folders have to have a 3 inch blade or less. No spring loaded knives, butterfly knives, switchblades, or knives designed to look like everyday objects.
My question is this, if a knife can be confiscated by the cops as a concealed weapon ( depending on length) why is carrying a 12inch Bowie knife ok so long as they can see it?
I think intent is far more important than the knife you carry.

laws don't always seem logical and some aren't at all. we could talk all day about why. we aren't allowed to talk politics here in this forum and this question is all politics.

 

[Mister Coffee]

laws don't always seem logical and some aren't at all. we could talk all day about why. we aren't allowed to talk politics here in this forum and this question is all politics.

With all due respect JB, the gentlemen is trying to learn about the laws governing knife carry in his state. No one is arguing politics here.

I apologize in advance if I misunderstood your statement.

 

[jbmonkey]

With all due respect JB, the gentlemen is trying to learn about the laws governing knife carry in his state. No one is arguing politics here.

I apologize in advance if I misunderstood your statement.

when I answered it was in the general forum..threads been moved here.

this forum is more conductive to discussing the politics...of lobbyists representing a group wanting the law banning or limiting whatever, other lobbyists carving their groups wants out of the law..how the money flows and who it would affect etc....not always a left vs. right deal...more just true politics of bills and how money plays from every angle til it makes it to a law routine.

for example and im making this up as I have not researched this law and its creation...maybe hunters/sportsmen groups wanted open carry of fixed blades exempt and their lobbyists got that carved out for them...by influencing the right politicians and donations etc.....once again made up as I do not know...but stuff like this happens.

 

[killgar]

I live in California, the knife laws here can vary from county to county. As a general rule of thumb all fixed blades have to be open carry, folders have to have a 3 inch blade or less. No spring loaded knives, butterfly knives, switchblades, or knives designed to look like everyday objects.
My question is this, if a knife can be confiscated by the cops as a concealed weapon ( depending on length) why is carrying a 12inch Bowie knife ok so long as they can see it?
I think intent is far more important than the knife you carry.

51 year resident of California here (San Diego). And I make a point of knowing any and all knife laws that might affect me, and my desire to remain a free man.

With a few exceptions, there is no blade length limit on carrying folding knives under state law. School property K-12 for example has strict limits on what types and sizes of knives can be legally carried on school property (CA penal code 626.10). And under state law, switchblades and butterfly knives with blades 2" or longer are illegal to carry, but they're legal to carry if the blades are under 2" (CA penal codes 17235, 21510, 21590).

There are a few counties/cities that do have length limits on OPENLY carried knives, like LA county and city, but even in LA there is no blade length limit on folding knives that are carried concealed. Odd but true. You'd think it would be the other way around.

You are correct that knives disguised to look like several different items are not only illegal to carry, but also illegal to own.

I'm not aware of any state laws that refer to illegally "concealed weapons" by length. The cops can confiscate any knife they want, after all, they're the cops, and they have guns. Whether or not such a confiscation is lawful and would hold up in court is another matter. As is ones chances of getting their confiscated knife back, and how much effort it would take.

As far as why the California legislators made it legal to openly carry fixed-blades, who knows. Maybe at some point the lawmakers of this state had some sense and recognized that ordinary people might have a legitimate use for a fixed-blade, like for work, or for camping/fishing/ hunting/etc.

And I would assume that the prohibition on concealed fixed-blades (referred to as "dirks" and "daggers" under state law) has to do with an assumption that the people who would carry concealed fixed-blades are criminals trying to conceal deadly weapons.

I don't agree with the prohibition on concealed fixed-blades, for purposes of discretion I'd like to carry a concealed fixed-blade, but the legislators haven't bothered to consult me on such matters. It is what it is.

 

[Mister Coffee]

K killgar Good post, Kill. According to one website, there is also a law in Los Angeles that makes it illegal to carry a concealed weapon (Los Angeles Code § 55.01). Regarding knives, that would be anything over three inches. Are you aware of any other instances in California where the laws conflict with each other?

 

[killgar]

K killgar Good post, Kill. According to one website, there is also a law in Los Angeles that makes it illegal to carry a concealed weapon (Los Angeles Code § 55.01). Regarding knives, that would be anything over three inches. Are you aware of any other instances in California where the laws conflict with each other?

LA code 55.01 refers, in part, to "dangerous and deadly weapons", and requiring a permit to carry them, but doesn't specifically refer to knives. And I can't find anything in LA law that defines legal knives as "dangerous or deadly weapons". That doesn't mean it's not somewhere in the code, but I didn't see it. I'd be somewhat shocked if the authorities in LA considered a pocketknife to automatically be a "dangerous or deadly weapon", and that a person would have to obtain a permit in order to legally carry one, particularly considering all the legitimate reasons for carrying a pocketknife, and all the people who likely do so.

As far as other local laws that are more stricter than state law, I know that there is at least one county or city that also has a 3" limit like LA, but I can't think of it off the top of my head (might be San Francisco, but not sure). I know it's here in the Knife Laws forum somewhere. But wherever it is, I never go there, so I didn't bother to make a note of it.

Other than that, I can't think of any. But it doesn't mean there aren't any. Lots of cities and counties in California. My personal focus has been on state law, because here in San Diego that's all we go by, and to a lesser degree LA, because I used to go there sometimes. My guess is that these days just about every city and county has an official website where all of their local laws can be found.

 

[Triton]

LA code 55.01 refers, in part, to "dangerous and deadly weapons", and requiring a permit to carry them, but doesn't specifically refer to knives. And I can't find anything in LA law that defines legal knives as "dangerous or deadly weapons". That doesn't mean it's not somewhere in the code, but I didn't see it. I'd be somewhat shocked if the authorities in LA considered a pocketknife to automatically be a "dangerous or deadly weapon", and that a person would have to obtain a permit in order to legally carry one, particularly considering all the legitimate reasons for carrying a pocketknife, and all the people who likely do so.

With some of the DAs elected in California of late I would be shocked if they did not consider any knife up to and including butter knives, utility knives and draw knives dangerous and deadly weapons. Just because you don't see it in the code doesn't mean it will not be interpreted that way. The justice system has very little too do with justice as I am sure you are well aware.

 

[killgar]

With some of the DAs elected in California of late I would be shocked if they did not consider any knife up to and including butter knives, utility knives and draw knives dangerous and deadly weapons. Just because you don't see it in the code doesn't mean it will not be interpreted that way. The justice system has very little too do with justice as I am sure you are well aware.

Very true. Prosecutors often push the envelope and try to expand the law, and their prosecutorial powers. And to that end they regularly overcharge defendants.

Speaking of utility knives, there was a case here in California not too long ago, People v. Hester, where an individual was charged with carrying concealed dirks/daggers for having two box cutters, one in his pocket, and one in a backpack. Despite the fact that neither knife had an exposed blade, he was convicted of the charge. And when he tried to appeal his conviction the appeals court refused to hear his appeal, thereby upholding the conviction.

Of course Mr. Hester was a violent criminal, which played a major part in the charges, his conviction, and according to the appeals judges, the refusal of his appeal. The appeals court also specifically stated that ordinary people with a legitimate reason for carrying a concealed box cutter should not be prosecuted. But that case demonstrates how prosecutors will attempt to expand the law, and how they sometimes prevail.

I would have said that prosecutors ALWAYS try to expand the law and their prosecutorial powers, and at one time that would have been true, but these are very strange times here in California in regards to the criminal justice system. A social-political ideology has taken over in various cities and counties, and as a result law enforcement has taken a very soft and permissive attitude towards crime. There are actually some District Attorneys in this state that are choosing not to prosecute criminals due to what they consider to be "inequity" in the law. And this has caused crime rates to soar throughout many parts of the state.

 

[Mister Coffee]

Very true. Prosecutors often push the envelope and try to expand the law, and their prosecutorial powers. And to that end they regularly overcharge defendants.

Speaking of utility knives, there was a case here in California not too long ago, People v. Hester, where an individual was charged with carrying concealed dirks/daggers for having two box cutters in a backpack. Despite the fact that neither knife had an exposed blade, he was convicted of the charge. And when he tried to appeal his conviction the appeals court refused to hear his appeal, thereby upholding the conviction.

Of course Mr. Hester was a violent criminal, which played a major part in the charges, his conviction, and according to the appeals judges, the refusal of his appeal. The appeals court also specifically stated that ordinary people with a legitimate reason for carrying a concealed box cutter should not be prosecuted. But that case demonstrates how prosecutors will attempt to expand the law, and how they sometimes prevail.

I would have said that prosecutors ALWAYS try to expand the law and their prosecutorial powers, and at one time that would have been true, but these are very strange times here in California in regards to the criminal justice system. A social-political ideology has taken over in various cities and counties, and as a result law enforcement has taken a very soft and permissive attitude towards crime. There are actually some District Attorneys in this state that are choosing not to prosecute criminals due to what they consider to be "inequity" in the law. And this has caused crime rates to soar throughout many parts of the state.

You may have greater expertise and experience in this area, but I haven't noticed that these times are radically different from any other. What is abundantly clear — perhaps to both of us — is that our law enforcement and criminal justice systems need radical reform. However, that's going to be difficult because they operate within a larger culture that is so profoundly broken. It's hard to enjoy our knife hobby when just outside our front door, everything is falling apart.

 

[ferider]

51 year resident of California here (San Diego). And I make a point of knowing any and all knife laws that might affect me, and my desire to remain a free man.

With a few exceptions, there is no blade length limit on carrying folding knives under state law. School property K-12 for example has strict limits on what types and sizes of knives can be legally carried on school property (CA penal code 626.10). And under state law, switchblades and butterfly knives with blades 2" or longer are illegal to carry, but they're legal to carry if the blades are under 2" (CA penal codes 17235, 21510, 21590).

There are a few counties/cities that do have length limits on OPENLY carried knives, like LA county and city, but even in LA there is no blade length limit on folding knives that are carried concealed. Odd but true. You'd think it would be the other way around.

You summarize the CA knife laws well. If I may add, there is a 4" blade length folder limitation in government buildings.

However, there are quite a few counties with folder length limitations, plus "loitering laws", etc., for example San Mateo.

Roland.

 

[killgar]

You may have greater expertise and experience in this area, but I haven't noticed that these times are radically different from any other. What is abundantly clear — perhaps to both of us — is that our law enforcement and criminal justice systems need radical reform. However, that's going to be difficult because they operate within a larger culture that is so profoundly broken. It's hard to enjoy our knife hobby when just outside our front door, everything is falling apart.

I agree.

In regards to what changed here in California, one thing was the passage of Proposition 47, which reduced the severity of several non-violent criminal offenses. As a result, criminals who commit various crimes aren't even being arrested. This leads to more crime, and even worse crime- like when a store employee confronts a shoplifter who knows they can't be arrested for shoplifting, and then that shoplifter violently assaults the employee. A perfect example of a non-violent crime that becomes a violent crime. Same thing happens when people confront someone vandalizing their property, or breaking into their car.

Another thing that changed in California, District Attorneys used to get elected by claiming to be tough on crime, and promising to put more criminals behind bars. But in recent years some people have run for DA, and got elected, by promising to prosecute fewer criminals. And while I feel that some people should not be prosecuted (mandatory drug treatment instead), or prosecuted as harshly, some current DA's are letting not only career criminals, but also violent and dangerous criminals walk free.

Fortunately here in San Diego we have an old-fashioned DA who believes in prosecuting criminals. San Diego seems to be an outlier in California, back in 2020 when "defund the police" became all the rage, including by "social activists" here in San Diego, our local politicians actually voted to INCREASE the police department budget by 27 million dollars. This REALLY pissed-off the social activists and the protesters. As for me, it was the first time I actually felt proud to be a San Diegan .

 

[killgar]

You summarize the CA knife laws well. If I may add, there is a 4" blade length folder limitation in government buildings.

However, there are quite a few counties with folder length limitations, plus "loitering laws", etc., for example San Mateo.

Roland.

Yep, that's another length limit in California. CA penal code Chapter 7, 171b (3). It applies to both fixed-blades and folders.

 

[Mister Coffee]

I agree.

In regards to what changed here in California, one thing was the passage of Proposition 47, which reduced the severity of several non-violent criminal offenses. As a result, criminals who commit various crimes aren't even being arrested. This leads to more crime, and even worse crime- like when a store employee confronts a shoplifter who knows they can't be arrested for shoplifting, and then that shoplifter violently assaults the employee. A perfect example of a non-violent crime that becomes a violent crime. Same thing happens when people confront someone vandalizing their property, or breaking into their car.

Another thing that changed in California, District Attorneys used to get elected by claiming to be tough on crime, and promising to put more criminals behind bars. But in recent years some people have run for DA, and got elected, by promising to prosecute fewer criminals. And while I feel that some people should not be prosecuted (mandatory drug treatment instead), or prosecuted as harshly, some current DA's are letting not only career criminals, but also violent and dangerous criminals walk free.

Fortunately here in San Diego we have an old-fashioned DA who believes in prosecuting criminals. San Diego seems to be an outlier in California, back in 2020 when "defund the police" became all the rage, including by "social activists" here in San Diego, our local politicians actually voted to INCREASE the police department budget by 27 million dollars. This REALLY pissed-off the social activists and the protesters. As for me, it was the first time I actually felt proud to be a San Diegan .

If our system is broken, is doing more of the same going to make things better? Does "an old-fashioned DA who believes in prosecuting criminals" mean that the answer is to get more vicious?

 

[killgar]

If our system is broken, is doing more of the same going to make things better? Does "an old-fashioned DA who believes in prosecuting criminals" mean that the answer is to get more vicious?

I didn't say anything about "getting vicious". But I do believe that people who rob, steal, destroy private property, and commit violent crimes should be arrested, prosecuted, and if convicted, incarcerated.

If you disagree with me on that, then I see no point in discussing the matter further, as I have no interest in debating whether or not criminals should be prosecuted. My position on such matters is unwavering and cannot be changed by any amount of debate.

Happy holidays .

 

[Mister Coffee]

I didn't say anything about "getting vicious". But I do believe that people who rob, steal, destroy private property, and commit violent crimes should be arrested, prosecuted, and if convicted, incarcerated.

If you disagree with me on that, then I see no point in discussing the matter further, as I have no interest in debating whether or not criminals should be prosecuted.

Happy holidays .

I agree with you. I am not saying that I am in favor of crime and criminals. I'm suggesting that we need to look at the larger issues that produce crime and criminals.