Knife steel snobs are out of their minds, 440a is great

Status
Not open for further replies.
Y

y53p

Joined
May 11, 2022
Messages
297
It's insane how often people online scoff at the 440 series while praising steels like 3V or 1095. 440c is better than both of those steels chemically speaking and, for the price, throws a competition with higher end steels. 440a on the other hand let me a little doubtful considering its chemical composition (which, by the way, is not too bad at all as it's better than many other steels that people often don't even acknowledge as low end). Gave it a try off of a Linder bowie I bought recently and I gotta say it's pretty good steel. It holds a very nice edge (still shaved after a day of chopping, batoning and food prep) and it takes back its razor sharp edge extremely easily, only took me a couple strops on the coarse side of my belt to get it back to factory sharpness. For the record, I have many knives, with steels ranging from s30v to D2, n690 and then some, and I'd say 440a definitely holds its own against knife steels that are commonly deemed superior. A real shame that people avoid knives from the 440 series just because of the bad rep.
 
I've used plenty of 440 series over the years, primarily in the kitchen. They're serviceable, relatively tough and inexpensive enough that I don't worry about them getting damaged. Pretty quick to sharpen as well, though edge holding is not its strongest suit.

I have never picked a 440 grade knife as my first choice for EDC or outdoor work, but if it works for you, that's great. Plenty of companies still use it...

Let's see how long we can maintain a civil discussion without going off the rails.
 
Perfectly reasonable steel for a bigger stainless knife, especially if the maker uses the right grind, and has good heat treatment. Honestly, there are very few bad steels now, but there are still a lot of bad designs. But I can also I can see why one would want to jump up in steel grade for knives that will see more use, e.g. - EDC folders, etc....
 
You are not going to sway people whose raison d'etre is to nitpick steel qualities, not even a thousandths of an inch.

I find 440a to be serviceable, like Rostfrei, 4116, 420HC, etc. It is easy to sharpen with basic tools, which is my preference.
 
It's not the steel, more who uses that steel.

Off the top of my head:
M-tech
Cheap 15$ Bokers
Cutco
...

None of those quality wise, inspire confidence. It's 2023, if 440a isn't obsoleted, more companies would use them. Also, don't alienate the whole forum by calling us snobs, I prefer "nerds" my self.

Anyway, let me tag Larrin Larrin who has more knowledge and patience than me.
 
Surgical Steel is what real snobs prefer :)

Most common steels are fine for me, though it is nice to have something fancier if possible.
 
19-3ben said:
Better in what way?
Click to expand...
440c has more carbon than either 1095 and 3v (0.95-1.20% vs 0.9-1% and 0.8%), hence better edge retention, it also has chromium, which makes it stainless unlike those other two steels (18% vs 7.5% and 0%). 440c also has more manganese, moly (although this one is slightly lower than 3v's) and silicate than either of those two steels.
 
This will be fun….


I carried nothing but 440a in Camillus made Buck 303 and 301 from 1975 until 1999 when I bought my first “ modern Knife “ A benchmade emerson cqc7. we don’t know what we don’t know but I don’t ever remember even thinking I wish I had better steel
 
Nothing wrong with steels like 420HC (at least the way Buck treats it), 4116 (probably in a lot of kitchen cutlery), Rostfrei in SAKs, fillet knives, commercial butcher and boning knives. Cold Steel never specified what it used in its orignal tanto other than "400 Series", but that is a tough steel that takes a great edge. I believe Randall uses 440A for its stainless blades. That said, I prefer high carbide powder steels these days, including tool steels like M4.
 
y53p said:
440c has more carbon than either 1095 and 3v (0.95-1.20% vs 0.9-1% and 0.8%), hence better edge retention, it also has chromium, which makes it stainless unlike those other two steels (18% vs 7.5% and 0%). 440c also has more manganese, moly (although this one is slightly lower than 3v's) and silicate than either of those two steels.
Click to expand...
You're skipping a very important element here: vanadium. 440 has no vanadium, while 3V has 2.75%. Vanadium forms the hardest carbides. This allows 3V to have equal or better wear resistance with much better toughness than 440.
 
Synov said:
It's OK. But Magnacut is twice as strong, has 25% more edge retention, and will basically never rust.
Click to expand...
lmao. Magnacut has around the same carbon as 440c (with 440c peaking at 1.2%, which makes it potentially higher than MC's 1.15), 440c has higher chromium (MC has 10%, 440c has 18%), which makes MC way less rust resistant than 440c, and this all goes without considering the fact that magna cut knives cost $200+, and that is just speaking for edc folders. You won't find a magnacut large fixed blade from a proper brand at in the $100-200 range, but you will find many in the same price range made from 440c.
 
y53p said:
440c has more carbon than either 1095 and 3v (0.95-1.20% vs 0.9-1% and 0.8%), hence better edge retention, it also has chromium, which makes it stainless unlike those other two steels (18% vs 7.5% and 0%). 440c also has more manganese, moly (although this one is slightly lower than 3v's) and silicate than either of those two steels.
Click to expand...
I would recommend investigating how carbon and chromium interact with each other in steels and that might tell you both why 440c has more of it than 3V and why it doesn't necessarily equal superior edge retention.
 
Delta-v said:
You're skipping a very important element here: vanadium. 440 has no vanadium, while 3V has 2.75%. Vanadium forms the hardest carbides. This allows 3V to have equal or better wear resistance with much better toughness than 440.
Click to expand...
You're right, 3v does have a vanadium edge over 440c, but it still has low corrosion resistance, which imo is not expandable for having essentially similar toughness or potentially even slightly lower.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I would recommend investigating how carbon and chromium interact with each other in steels and that tell you both why 440c has more of it than 3V and why it doesn't necessarily equal superior edge retention.
Click to expand...
Sure, I'll look into that, thx for the heads up.
 
y53p said:
You're right, 3v does have a vanadium edge over 440c, but it still has low corrosion resistance, which imo is not expandable for having essentially similar toughness or potentially even slightly lower.
Click to expand...
3V is about 150% tougher than 440. Also you can't just compare chromium content. Corrosion resistance comes from chromium in solution, not chromium tied up in chromium carbide.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top