Korean Martial Arts Swords

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Jan 29, 2006
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I'm taking a Korean Martial Art called Sul Sa Do and want to learn about Korean weapons. Sul Sa Do started about 1800 years ago and I was just wondering what kind of swords these warriors may have used back then. We just use the basic Japanese Katana for practice but I'm sure it's probably way off. I would appreciate any information.
 
I hate to be the one to bring it up, but a lot of the history of "Sul Sa Do" is completely fictitious before the late 1980s, when it split from disenfranchised members of the KSW and HRD communities.

As a result, you're right to enquire about the authentic history.

There actually isn't a heck of a lot of good information on Korean swordsmanship. The Koreans did develop some indigenous swords, but these were mostly for ceremonial purposes.

It's also interesting to note that the martial culture of Korea is a small percentage of what you'd find in Japan or China--the Korean peninsula maintained a fairly smooth international peace and tight internal controls that maintained a status quo (think "Hermit Kingdom"!) that kept them out of large scale war efforts. There wasn't a whole lot of reason for swords in Korean history.

During Korea's history, there were a few military issues: a naval battle, which was of course fought with ships and not so much swords, and a Mongolian invasion which was repelled with Korea's best weaponcraft: archery.

That said, the earliest swords that were used were very much influenced by the Chinese jin swords (the Korean word gum, meaning "sword," comes from this specific Chinese word): long, single-hand, and straight bladed designed for thrusting and cutting. The genuine Korean swords that have been found look a lot like Chinese jin, but with less ornamentation (the Confucian influence being present even there: less showy is better).

As Japan rose to prominence, many Korean metal workers went to Japan to make cheap copies of Japanese swords; as is often the case, the Korean workmanship quickly rose in quality and availability, and the Korean smiths in Japan were often sought after for their excellent material. I don't buy into the Korean claims that they were responsible for the development and quality of the katana--I think that rightly stays with the Japanese, but there's no doubt that Koreans produced stunning material in Japan.

But back in Korea, it's a bit of another story. The curved design of the Japanese katana didn't make its way back to Korea until the Japanese brought it there in 1910! Modern "Korean" swords you see today that look like Japanese swords are simply recent designs.

In 1945-1955, the new South Korean government was in a real need to establish its credibility...a national identity crisis, having been virtually imprisoned by the Japanese for half a century, and having been self-imprisoned for thousands of years prior. As a result, the government did itself a disservice by wildly exaggerating or even fabricating a lot of its history to provide more local color. The "ancient warriors" lie rose up to counter the samurai mythos of the recently-defeated Japanese... and this spread to every Korean martial art (that is, Japanese derived martial art) and fueled a lot of this "1800 year old" stuff. The fact is that there is little martial culture native to Korea. Don't get me wrong: tough, strong people who endured a lot. But they had no warrior culture because it would directly contradict Confucian ideals set in place for thousands of years there.

The 1980s saw a boom in Korean martial arts popularity here in the States, and that led to a number of rifts in the KMAs, with people opting to create numerous sub-styles "all descended from the warriors from 1800 years ago." There are a couple of sword-oriented systems, but they're either derivatives of Kendo (like Kumdo), or they're syntheses of other systems' techniques (like Hwarangdo or KukSoolWon).

This relative absence of the sword throughout Korean history explains why Korean sword arts spend very little time on the history and development of Korean blades, and why there aren't 600 Korean words for every small part of a sword... the material isn't very rich.

But if you compare that to a Korean weapon that was used--it's a different story. A traditional Korean archery student will spend hours discussing just the parts of a bow and how each was developed, etc., because there's thousands of years of solid stuff there.
 
I concur with Watchful. Pretty much any traditional martial art you can think of has a Korean counterpart, and it's not because it was invented in Korea and then exported, but likely the other way around. As for sword, what I learned to be "traditional" differs little from Japanese sword. There are, truly, only so many ways to block, cut, and thrust with a sword. As for the sword itself, almost always brown leather wrap grip, a bit longer than a traditional katana, with no hamon.
 
basic geography all by itself would strongly favour chinese styled swords over japanese styled ones.
 
That originating from or pertaining to the Korean peninsula, its people, or its history.
 
again, you mean made in Korea (i think they are BTW) or historically correct?

number two is a little more difficult to know for certain, since korea´s history was almost wiped out by the Japanese after their invasion
 
There are no unique Korean combat designs. Historical swords, what few there were, were basically Chinese in shape and design. Modern ones are Japanese copies... Kuk Sool Won's claims otherwise notwithstanding.
 
every corner over here has another little studio with a youngster claiming to teach "the original Korean warrior art"
since coming to Korea I've tried a different style of swordsmanship every month, and am still looking for anything worthwhile pursuing
most of them are either modified kendo, or made up BS
 
I pretty much agree with watchfull on this.
Korea actually does have a martial history but as was said so much of it has been 'morphed' today by modern people who had background primarily in the Japanese Arts. I can't speak to the Sa So Do but the Koreans barrowed more from the Chinese than the Japanese. Again remember the country was invaded many times and those influences were definitely there. Probably the oldest reference to some of these Korean Hybrid arts can be found in Dr. Sang H. Kim's Translation of Muye Dobo Tongji ( Comprehensive Illustrated Manual of Martial Arts ) Turtle Press 2000. The scroll-like document was frist put together in Korea by Yi-Duk-moo, Park Je-ga and Pak Dong soo in 1790 and is based on 1500s Chinese martial arts manual called Kishyo Shinsu from the Ming Dynasty. Apparently these guys combined this with to indigenous techniques to put together a " Korean Version" of it....so what you have is a combination of Chinese & Japanese being grouped as what was being practiced in Korea. The manual is a combination of technique description and Katas for Spear, Long Sword, Short Sword, Japanese Sword, Fist techniques, Long stick, and Flails. It covers fighting on horseback and foot, has some descriptions on armor. This manual appears to be a patched together curriculum for the korean army. One chapter in the text deals with Admiral Yi's sword which was similar to the long straight bladed two handed swords you see now and again in China. I wrote a little on this in my book The Fighting Sword by Paladin Press ( Just released) . Back when I was on active duty I had a bit of a windfall $-wise and was able to afford a custom sword. Tom Maringer of Springdale Ark. made it for me based on Yi's sword. That book describes how this was designed from the Korean influence and has a group of techniques that fit it.. Jane Hallander and Grandmaster In Hyuk Suh wrote two books on Kuk Sool Won Sword Techniques and Weapons of the Korean Royal Court . Unique Publication produced these back in the late 1980s (not sure if still in print) I can't speak to the accuracy of the historical validity of the techniques but they do seem Chinese and they do work. Hell, the bottom-line is that I enjoyed working with them and since there is not a lot of sword dueling going on these days that says something in itself. I sure hope I've been of help here. Well, that's about it from my end...too busy with tomahawks these days to have followed the Koreans Sword interests to their logical conclusions.

My Best
Dwight
 
Lohengrin.
I was stationed in Korea during the late 1970s. Most of the roads over there North of Soul were gravel. They used that little Red Ox to plow fields with back then ( now replaced with tractors) The martial arts schools in the villages were as you described except the teachers were in their late 30s & 40s and were mean-as-hell. Most had been in the ROK Army (you don't want that assignment) and while they may not have the best credentials, they made up for it by being 'Tough, hard Professionals' . My Kendo Instructor here in the states was one of that breed. He talked a lot about Korean Sword Arts and made of point of telling us the difference between Kendo and Kumdo. I heard things had changed over there.

All My Best

Dwight
 
Dwight,

Although there isn't any doubt about the authenticity of the Muye Dobo Tongji, it isn't really quite a manual of techniques so much as it is a manual of arms. I have a photocopy in Korean, and it's pretty much a book of postures and poses: there's not much detail about execution of the techniques.

I haven't looked through Kim's translation of it--only seen the cover--but worry that there's a lot of re-creation involved based on speculation.

Jane Hallander and Grandmaster In Hyuk Suh wrote two books on Kuk Sool Won Sword Techniques and Weapons of the Korean Royal Court ... I can't speak to the accuracy of the historical validity of the techniques but they do seem Chinese and they do work.

Suh's books are (unfortunately) inadequately historical, and basically are cleverly done ads for Kook Sul Won instruction under the guise of an academic textbook. It's convenient, for example, that all his purported Korean weapons are those taught (and sold) by his organization. Worse, that makes him little different than many of the other KMA "scholars" out there who invent history in order to produce revenue over truth.
 
(it isn't really quite a manual of techniques so much as it is a manual of arms.)
Watchful....Get a copy of the translation and work with it ....It might just change you mind. I am afraid I can't agree it's a Manual of Arms...in the modern since of being a parade ground style approach. I think they may well have moved through those katas as a group but they are clearly battlefied in orientation. These probably looked a lot like the stuff we see on T.V. from the Shaolin Temple where you have up to 50 or more people going through the sequences in unison.. I can see that manual is no different than any of the European fight manuals and it links techniques together in a systamatic manner for training. When you work with the kata (forms if you will) the techniques flow one into the other. It sure is not about posing. Again the way they have illustrated this is really interesting. The text talks about executing this and that cutting techniques. So well, interesting discussion I delighted to see people interested in this long neglected topic. I've seen a power point presentation of some of the scrolls .....really fascinating. You probably should go train with Master Suk before you draw any conclusions. I wish I could . After all it's not our culture and us 'Round-Eyes' have never been opposed to making a buck too. I agree that so much of what you see with the korean sword owes it's pedigree as much to marketing techniques than historical accuracy. That does not bother me very much at all, these days. Everything said, I appreciate the theory about 'Manual of Arms' intent for that text. I had never really thought of it in those terms and will certainly apply it to any other research I may well do in the future.

You take Care
Best
Dwight
 
Dwight,

Are you using only the Kim translation? I haven't looked through that book, and therefore can't discuss its contents.

But, I do have a photocopy of the Korean original, and there's not that much discussion of technique--just a collection of poses and postures with a description below each of what it's for.

This may be us talking in circles around each other, of course: my use of the word "pose" is not pejorative, but a translation of the Korean 자세 (jase).

Also, I think I would accept the Muyedobo Tongji as a fighting manual in the same manner that Hans Talhoffer's Fechtbuch is (or is not) a fighting manual: descriptions and some artwork, but not enough to be 100% sure what is being depicted. In that light, Kim's book may be like the many WMA books that follow with interpretations and supposition of what was probably meant.

Like you said, I don't know. But I would say the Muyedobo is not a manual in...say... the way YOUR books ARE fighting manuals. :)
 
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Watchful.
Kim Translation....Yes! that's what I've got. I had some color prints that were up for a while on a Kumdo site in the D.C. Area. Since we moved to the woods, I can't seem to find them now. My daughters 'heisted' a bunch of my drawings and stuff after the move and it may have went with them. I'll keep looking.
Here is a short quote from some of the text.

" The Keojungse is the Kettle Lifting Posture. This posture is used to kill upward by striking forward, with the left leg and the right hand parallell, cutting through the center."
That's the kind of 'weird' descriptions throughout the text.
Based on your post, I think WE ARE PRETTY MUCH ON THE SAME TRACK. Your comparison to Talhoffer is 'bang-on' from my perspective. BTW David Cevet's site used to provide some really clear colorful prints of Talhoffer stuff. I agree these type of documents were probably meant more as a memory jogger than anything else, or as one fellow...they may have been a marketing tool for the nobility. Hell, who knows. We have to meet one these days.

All my Best
Dwight

BTW . Just got the Paladin Catalog and John Clements long awaited book is now published. Can't wait to read it.
 
Dwight, I agree that we are in agreement!

I had heard that John Clements was writing a book, and am shocked to hear he's finished it already. I would very much look forward to reading it: I hope it covers *everything* I can possibly imagine. :)

Would very much look forward to meeting you, should our paths be lucky enough to cross! :thumbup:
 
Watchful.
Just talked to John email and the book is Titled Masters of Medieval and Rennaissance Martial Arts. It is sort of a compedium of articles and excerpts from some of the top scholars in that field. You can find it on Paladin Press website. I'm sure it will be a good read. I'm still waiting on his How-To book.

Best
Dwight
 
Well, two of his books are on the rapier and the medieval longsword, respectively. Those look how-to.

I checked out his new book on the Paladin website and it does look very interesting; possibly scholarly!
 
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