Korean Martial Arts Swords

I’m glad you two are both martial scholars. It’s pleasing to know I’m not the only one around, as well as refreshing to see an intelligent debate being discussed between two men who know what they are talking about.

Dwight, I am very pleased that you just released your newest book. I promise to pick up both yours and Clements new book once I am financially able. Btw, when is Clements going to release another “how-to” book, and what will be the subject. He has already covered the renaissance rapier and “cut and thrust sword” as well as the medieval long sword and sword and shield. I am interested in what his next book will be about. Speaking of next book, how’s your staff book coming along? I took up your advice about purchasing the wax wood staff from bud k and have been practicing diligently ever since. I am just glad there is so much information around today on its use from various different systems. I am eagerly looking forward to your interpretation on the use of the staff.

To chime in on your discussion here, my findings tend to mirror that of Watchful’s more. Every time I find a “uniquely Korean martial concept or weapon”, I can find that same technique or weapon dating back several hundred if not thousands of years prior to it becoming popular in Korea, usually in china and every once in a while Japan. It is also frustrating to hear a KMA “scholar” come out seemingly every other month claiming to have found a long lost Korean martial art.

Watchful, I am intrigued (and tend to agree) with your view on Han’s Talhoffer’s books in that they are more just a basic depiction, not really a description or “how-to” book. Out of curiosity, how would you interpret the other medieval and renaissance manuscripts out there? Do you find most if not all comparable to Talhoffer’s, and if not, which ones do you believe stick out the most in description and the execution of a technique(s)?
 
Hey Vicious, long time since we've chatted. Hope all is well.

To be fair to the level of the discussion, I picked Talhoffer as an example of a manuscript that inspires more debate than practice. I have not, by any means, studied a significant amount of traditional European texts... and those I have "read" were more like skimming.

As much as I would enjoy putting out another 170 paragraphs in order to answer your question, I will delight everyone by not doing so.

However, I will add that both Eastern and Western manuscripts share one attribute that's quite annoying to the modern reader: they all tend to assume that the reader already has the basic experience necessary to figure the rest of it out!

As a tragic result, folks like us who don't engage in or at least witness frequent combat uses of the sword, or later, seeing daily duels sadly miss out on the fundamental assumptions.

Imagine trying to make sense of Joe Morgan's Baseball My Way if you never saw the game played, had access to the rules, or weren't quite sure what an "innings" might be. People would argue for years on online forums! :)
 
Hello Vicious.

I'm really not to much of a medieval, rennaissance scholar. While I study that stuff quite frequently, I'm really more concerned with which of those techniques migrated to this country and were of use in 17th, 18th, & 19th Century America. Greg Mele (CSG) provided me with a lot of xerox manuscripts over a decade ago and I still have not got around to really doing really in-depth research.

I'm not sure what John's next effort will be or when. I know he has been working on that text for some time. Western Martial Arts Politics and Critics make everyone cautious these days. You know we tend to 'eat' our own young and just like the Eastern MA we've acquired our own group of 'shit-house' experts. We've got some great scholars and historians who are doing good work but some of their intrepretations are influnced by thier own martial background and some preconcieved ideas that things have to 'look' like the manuscripts. My biggest criticism is some focus so much on precise footwork in the dojo/city park that they forget to train outside on a variety of terrain. When you see all new students focused on 'watching their feet' and not focusing on 'the window of combat' something is a bit out-of-whack.

As for The Fighting Sword, we'll it's hybrid, mixing both East and West techniques that I've acquired over the years. I did this as a tribute to my old training partner Jeff Karako and Tom Maringer who made the sword that is used in the text. It's got a lot of parts, pieces, poems, and some of my generic thoughts on the martial arts as I see them. As with most of my stuff history was used not recreated. The sword was based on a korean design and I can't absolutely be sure that what I have is totally absolutely historically valid; But as I always say..." Who gives a shit" if it reasonably works. The odds of using a sword this day in age is just not that great, and it is certainly not high on my real-world training priority. I did this as a Martial Arts book...no more...no less. As I said in the book, most logical people want see the need for it, but the fellow who rides 'big Harleys' and shoots black powder will. We boys must have our toys.
As to the KMA scholars chest thumping, just accept it for what it is. They just want to play too, and sometimes myths are just a powerful as reality. At any rate, I don't worry about it. It's the trainng that counts, besides there was a lot of Chinese influence there.
As to lost korean history, I've got to say, that when I made it down to Soul, there I saw a lot of scrolls with martial and dance theme on them. Some were 18th century copies that may have been of chinese origin. At that time I was not interested that much in the martial arts but rather tanks and such. The memory fades.

Best
Dwight
 
I've spent a good deal of time in Korea (my wife's Korean) and from what I can tell, there is very little blade culture to speak of there. I have actively looked for knives in several cities, and have found little more than SAKs and (scarse) potmetal junk tourist-type knives. They have their traditional martial arts, and certainly there have been and still are great Korean fighters, but violence is simply not a part of their culture the way it is here in the United States. Korean culture, on the whole, is very peaceful. Which is nice.

All of the swords I have seen in museums there appeared to be based on traditional Chinese patterns- especially the Gim "scholars" sword. All of the swords I've seen were straight-bladed, and were relatively small. I've seen many Korean swords that were bronze, and VERY old- and they were all straight, and smallish as well. Most were double-edged, but I've seen a few single-edged examples. I can't recall seeing anything with a blade longer than 24" or so. I agree with the comments above that Koreans appear to have been primarily bow (and spear) fighters.
 
Vicious. Sorry I did not answer you about the staff book. I've got a contract with Paladin and it will come out in late 09. Like the sword book it's Hybred mixing East & West.

Best
Dwight
 
The Mongols conquered and ruled Korea in the 13th Century. Later the Manchus invaded.
the Koreans appear to have made use of armored ships, the "Turtle Ships" many years before anyone else to my knowlege.
 
just to "fan the fire" so to speak.....

back in the 80's I had a conversation with H.U.Lee ( presdent of the later nefarious ATA ) My question was, "do you use or plan on integrating any weapons into your system?" His reply," it takes a lifetime to master TKD, there's no time to study weapons"

I only mention this, because oddly now, they seem to use a plethora of "traditional" korean weapons:rolleyes:
 
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