[Laguiole] Are the pins on your Shepherd's Cross aligned?
- Thread starter Dextar
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Sorry bro
Wabi-sabi - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Dan.
I think the OP had some of the terms used explained to him, and yes knife enthusiasts do employ some rather odd terminology etcFOMA is a variant of mass-hysteria, easily caught from any form of media - it means Fear Of Missing Out the kind of thing that impels people to buy something possibly merely because it is a) currently seen as trendy/desirable b) it may not be available again c) profits can be made with ease from it . d) I've got it you haven't- this is apparently a rush for some people. Hence collectors use all manner of high digital wizardry, arm twisting, ingratiation to get in on 'drops' first. Currently GEC and Albers knives have come under the gaze of FOMA, their utility as functional objects takes a back seat to their perceived desirability or rarity. I think Toilet Paper became an object of irrational FOMA some years back, even though there never was any shortage in the first place but media put the idea into peoples' heads and an insect mind took over
The Grohmann knives shown, well I'd love one of those Stag ones as I could fix that tip on a stone in a minute or so, unequal slabs are a side-effect of most Stag for that matter. Scuffs on an inexpensive Opinel ? Not really to be worried about, they are for repeated active use.
Fortunately, we are all different, I would not care to pursue an interest that gave me such worry or repeated discontent, Modern knives however, are very exact usually, and precisely made, a Traditional will inevitably sport more individuality- idiosyncrasies and they have innate beauty-which to me is the vital part, others will see it differently. Legendary knife smith Bill Scagel was highly influenced by nature in his design & making of knives, noting that in Nature there are no straight lines - this might be the illuminating answer.
Very great words. Though sometimes, my thought is: I always wanted to pay for a completely well-finished, brand-new, product, just like the Opinel example, it doesn't matter how cheap it is, one with pits, one without, I certainly will choose the one without. So once I receive one with pits, I choose to change.
Sometimes I asked myself: if I paid for a new product, why I should fix or repair some defect at the first time I receive it? It's something QA should do instead of consumer. I love wabi-sabi in some scenarios, but not pay for a new product.
To this case, I have replied to the manufacture and very well keep this knife, accepted it psychologically, mentally. - I have no idea at which moment my mind turns or changes. But now I just don't think I need to concentrating to this case anymore. I reconcile with it and with myself.
I believe this is because your, Will Power's, and all of everyone's reply. This is the reason I love this BF platform, not only view so many beautiful pictures, but everyone can equally discuss, without bias, no sarcasm, most people here describe, explain something objectively, you professionals teach newbie not only from the knife product itself, but from all of the rest perspective.
Appreciate again Will Power, and all of you.
Thanks for this video, I viewed similar one before, but until yesterday, I thought "if I was the craftsman, found misalignment, I will through the handle and use a new one to re-develop it. I am representing the high-end art, earning reputation to the brand, my Lauigole is selling over 230EUR, I am going to sign on the card, the customer is in 3-4 weeks waiting for this knife. So I need to make a perfect one as much as possible". Maybe I am too picky
or in sick.Anyway, it's all set now. I am keeping it and won't annoying anymore.
Last edited:
screened porch
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Nothing, really. Never mind.Thanks for this video, I viewed similar one before, but until yesterday, I thought "if I was the craftsman, found misalignment, I will through the handle and use a new one to re-develop it. I am representing the high-end art, earning reputation to the brand, my Lauigole is selling over 230EUR, I am going to sign on the card, the customer is in 3-4 weeks waiting for this knife. So I need to make a perfect one as much as possible". Maybe I am too picky
Anyway, it's all set now. I am keeping it and won't annoying anymore.
have some different pins,
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This Lag I picked up in Paris does not have it either.
kamagong
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Though I'm not enamored with misaligned pins, a crooked SC is not as egregious as neglecting to add a groove to the covers of a knife.
As nice as this knife is, I can't help but think it looks unfinished.
This is what it was supposed to look like.
As nice as this knife is, I can't help but think it looks unfinished.
This is what it was supposed to look like.
The Zieg
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Off topic, but when my Laguiole's horn scales finally crack off (they are in the process already, owing to the intensely dry climate here and that I use the knife fairly often), I will replace them. Instead of a cross, I will probably inlay a magen David.
Zieg
Zieg
Will Power
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Have to say that looks very odd. I thought all Shadow Lags had a 'shoulder' or groove in place of a bolster, Horn included? Did you ask them about this??Though I'm not enamored with misaligned pins, a crooked SC is not as egregious as neglecting to add a groove to the covers of a knife.
As nice as this knife is, I can't help but think it looks unfinished.
This is what it was supposed to look like.
View attachment 2174920
kamagong
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Have to say that looks very odd. I thought all Shadow Lags had a 'shoulder' or groove in place of a bolster, Horn included? Did you ask them about this??
Apparently not all shadow lags are grooved. Fontenille Pataud omits the groove, at least for their horn covers.
I did not contact them about it, mainly because any solution would undoubtedly require me to send the knife back. In retrospect I should have at least taken them to task for not updating their pictures. I can accept the lack of a groove as an idiosyncratic signature for their knives, but the images on their site should represent what a buyer can expect to receive.
draggat
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Coming from modern knife collecting to traditional can be a bit jarring sometimes. It was for me.
Modern knives are made using computers and machines. Some are possibly fitted and assembled by hand at the end. The rest of the processes are completed to very exacting standards where one can use a micrometer and calipers to measure the tolerances, the vast majority of these knives being in very tight specifications across the board.
There are plenty of videos showing knives being measured and one can expect to receive a nearly identical copy. This is not true of handmade traditional knives. No matter how close they may appear to each other, there will always be subtle variances, some more glaring than others. It really comes down to what you are willing to accept.
The following knife was one of my first experiences in the European traditional knife realm and I have to admit, for years it made me angry everytime I looked at it. You see, the blade edge rests on the blade well. There is no kick to keep it from touching, and of course, I let that sucker snap shut every time I closed it, thinking that this was how it should be done, the blade edge deformed a bit more every time. Never would I buy another piece of junk like this, I told myself. I guess the decorative pins are fairly straight an even though!
However, I could not stop myself from looking at all of the beautiful handmade knives, many with long histories. I came to realize that the knives should be closed gently and that often times, accepting something such as a blade edge resting on the blade well should actually be expected.
Is it right or wrong? Many will fervently tell you that this is completely unacceptable, that it is trash because of such a horrible design flaw. Personally, I've come to think of it as part of the price of admission to enjoy the beauty of such things. So, the answer of whether it is acceptable or not really lies with you. I know there are many who will take my viewpoint as crazy, but by relaxing my standards of what should or should not be has brought quite a bit of happiness and admiration.
I don't know the exact words, if there are any, but often, the idea of true perfection lies in the imperfections, the things that make something completely unique. This is actually a selling point of these types of knives, as no one will have an exact copy, that it becomes more luxurious in knowing that in a way, it is one of a kind. The craftsman's hand never makes the exact same motion twice.
There are solutions sometimes, in the case of blades resting on their edges..... a piece of leather, perhaps cork or a matchstick laid inside, along with closing them gently....
The solution to the one I hated for years
Blades resting on their edges is a common theme with all of these
Even this maker who is now highly sought after
A handmade knife, the maker accidentally stamped his name twice - One of a kind!
Buffalo horn handles may not be perfectly straight due to it being a natural material with limitations. Thank goodness it didn't look like this one!
This arrived with the pivot pin ground all the way down and the knife separating.... some extra $ and a very accommodating member here was able to replace the pin
This one.... the blade is ground unevenly, the edge touches the side and bottom of the blade well and the edge was ground with a slight recurve at the heel. Somehow despite all of that, it's still my favorite version of this pattern, and I have several.
All of this isn't meant to scold you for not accepting or being unhappy with a crooked decorative pin on your knife.
Thanks for reading my terribly long winded post. It's really just to let everyone know that the vast majority of the knives here in the traditional sub, at least the European ones, are hiding a few more warts than one might expect from the photos!
Modern knives are made using computers and machines. Some are possibly fitted and assembled by hand at the end. The rest of the processes are completed to very exacting standards where one can use a micrometer and calipers to measure the tolerances, the vast majority of these knives being in very tight specifications across the board.
There are plenty of videos showing knives being measured and one can expect to receive a nearly identical copy. This is not true of handmade traditional knives. No matter how close they may appear to each other, there will always be subtle variances, some more glaring than others. It really comes down to what you are willing to accept.
The following knife was one of my first experiences in the European traditional knife realm and I have to admit, for years it made me angry everytime I looked at it. You see, the blade edge rests on the blade well. There is no kick to keep it from touching, and of course, I let that sucker snap shut every time I closed it, thinking that this was how it should be done, the blade edge deformed a bit more every time. Never would I buy another piece of junk like this, I told myself. I guess the decorative pins are fairly straight an even though!
However, I could not stop myself from looking at all of the beautiful handmade knives, many with long histories. I came to realize that the knives should be closed gently and that often times, accepting something such as a blade edge resting on the blade well should actually be expected.
Is it right or wrong? Many will fervently tell you that this is completely unacceptable, that it is trash because of such a horrible design flaw. Personally, I've come to think of it as part of the price of admission to enjoy the beauty of such things. So, the answer of whether it is acceptable or not really lies with you. I know there are many who will take my viewpoint as crazy, but by relaxing my standards of what should or should not be has brought quite a bit of happiness and admiration.
I don't know the exact words, if there are any, but often, the idea of true perfection lies in the imperfections, the things that make something completely unique. This is actually a selling point of these types of knives, as no one will have an exact copy, that it becomes more luxurious in knowing that in a way, it is one of a kind. The craftsman's hand never makes the exact same motion twice.
There are solutions sometimes, in the case of blades resting on their edges..... a piece of leather, perhaps cork or a matchstick laid inside, along with closing them gently....
The solution to the one I hated for years
Blades resting on their edges is a common theme with all of these
Even this maker who is now highly sought after
A handmade knife, the maker accidentally stamped his name twice - One of a kind!
Buffalo horn handles may not be perfectly straight due to it being a natural material with limitations. Thank goodness it didn't look like this one!
This arrived with the pivot pin ground all the way down and the knife separating.... some extra $ and a very accommodating member here was able to replace the pin
This one.... the blade is ground unevenly, the edge touches the side and bottom of the blade well and the edge was ground with a slight recurve at the heel. Somehow despite all of that, it's still my favorite version of this pattern, and I have several.
All of this isn't meant to scold you for not accepting or being unhappy with a crooked decorative pin on your knife.
Thanks for reading my terribly long winded post. It's really just to let everyone know that the vast majority of the knives here in the traditional sub, at least the European ones, are hiding a few more warts than one might expect from the photos!
BrotherJim
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kamagong
Not only is there no groove on the knife handle, the engraved backspring is entirely different than represented on their site.ADCL: "Amis Du Couteau Laguiole" a facebook group. I am not a member of the group nor do I even have a facebook account.
I have not checked to see if all knives made for the group are the same or not. Dunno.
The difference bothered me for about a minute when I received the knife and then I got over it after examining the overall quality of the knife.
As shown:
Received:
Will Power
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Decided I like BOTH versions
ADCL: "Amis Du Couteau Laguiole" a facebook group. I am not a member of the group nor do I even have a facebook account.
I have not checked to see if all knives made for the group are the same or not. Dunno.
The difference bothered me for about a minute when I received the knife and then I got over it after examining the overall quality of the knife.
As shown:
Received:
But it's a fact they should keep their catalogue as up to date as possible. Makes me worry about an order I might be making...or not
Thanks, Will
kamagong
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ADCL: "Amis Du Couteau Laguiole" a facebook group. I am not a member of the group nor do I even have a facebook account.
I have not checked to see if all knives made for the group are the same or not. Dunno.
The difference bothered me for about a minute when I received the knife and then I got over it after examining the overall quality of the knife.
As shown:
Received:
It appears there are at least 3 guillochage patterns for the ADCL knife.
Around 3:35 ... "the bolsters are then spot-welded to the blade"
Journalism these days...
A lesson I learned within the first minutes of ownership.
"Shuts like a guillotine," the poster said up in GKD which prompted my buy. (Not the guillotine part, but the knife he posted.)
Oh yes, did it ever snap shut! OK, lesson learned, it's now a strictly two-hand knife, opening  and closing.
Jolipapa
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Nice, but starts and finishes with two wrong assertions.
No Spanish link has ever been found and there's no religious meaning in the cross. There's a complete book by Mr Lemasson about the Laguiole.
Forges closed in Laguiole for decades to reopen only in 1985 when all the trade was taken by Thiers and sales were ascending!
Call it an Aveyronnais de luxe...Though I'm not enamored with misaligned pins, a crooked SC is not as egregious as neglecting to add a groove to the covers of a knife.
As nice as this knife is, I can't help but think it looks unfinished.
This is what it was supposed to look like.
View attachment 2174920
Si fueris Romae, Romano vivito more; si fueris alibi, vivito sicut ibi
This is cultural... the same way we're used to shake one's hand to prove we have no weapon...
Please note that the Englishmen, whose knives sport a kick, do not snap them shut...
I have no idea why I just see your reply, I did read all of the replies, but just didnt' see this one, and above ones.
Sincerely appreciate all the words and photos.