Land Navigation..

R

Rob.L

Joined
Feb 22, 1999
Messages
50
Greg,Brian,Doc Ron and all,,How do you handle this situation? I occasionally hunt in area called Green Swamp. It is thick and swampy.Field of vision is anywhere from 1 foot to about 20 yards in many places. It is very easy to get turned around and more than one person has been lost for the day or more in there. No high land marks for shooting azmuth, no running creeks to follow etc.,just a lot of dense areas where deer and hogs lay up. Is the old walk in straight lines using pace count and taking a compass reading each time you change directions the best way to navigate? Just for the sake of it lets say you have no map and you are entering an area like this at point A. You know nothing about the land except that it is thick. You will be changing directions several times over the course of an hour hike and would like to return to your point of entry as close as possible. You have a compass and Bowie knife for blazing a path. What is your game plan? Also since I have started this thread can you talk about land navigation strategies in different types of terrain (i.e. different parts of the globe)? How about working as a team vs. an individual? Again I am assuming that you do not have a topographical map,Gps etc and have never been there before. In a nut-shell, what is your technique for geetting in and out of an area you have never been in before without getting lost? Forgive me if this question is very rudimentary but I would like to know your thought process in approaching this type of situation..Rob
 
Hi Rob...

You are right...your question is really a bunch of questions :>). I will tackle one now and would like to see what the forum comes up with on other aspects of it.

first: anytime I go into a new area, I always establish an emergency heading that, no matter where I am...If I take it, I will come out to a well traveled road or promonent land mark. I advise everyone to make a habit of doing this...even when hunting in a familiar area.

If I am fortunate enough to have a compass...and I wanted to do a random travel through the area like you describe...yes I would use my compass and pace count. The area is too thick to see surrounding landmarks. However, to get back out I would crate a map by ploting what I had done with headings, create a scale (from my pace counts), and plot my distance and heading (to get out using a straight route) based upon the information logged. In other words create a map from the gathered inforamtion.

If I had no compass, I'd use the sun and its relationship to my body as a means of staying on my route of travel (recognizing that it moves 15 degrees every hour and I'd need to adjust for it).

Lots of other questions to be answered...anyone else....Don't be shy :>)

PS: if it is so thick that I have to cut my way in, i'd come out the same way. It expends to much energy to cut a whole new route.

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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
GREG: I guess I figured it was just common sense to have an idea where you were and a direction to head if needed. After reading your post, I can see somebody unfamiliar with being in the "woods" not thinking about doing that.

It has always amazed me how people get "lost". Even if I enter a NEW area for the first time, I unconsiously think ok, if ANYTHING happens I need to go ______. From that stage I can get back to camp/vehicle/friends. No matter who you are and where you are, this should be a simple thing to consider and save a lot of worries.

Good topic! Its got me thinking about stuff that I really don't "think" about!
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Plainsman :)
primitiveguy@hotmail.com


 
Yeah...plainsman, :>) even when I make a post like this...I try and make sure that I cover the common sense stuff. It's odd...but every year people head into the backcountry without any idea how to get out should they become lost. Something as easy as having taken the time to establish an emergency heading could have meant the difference between life and death for these people.

Jeff, I agree that tape is a good idea...the only problem I have with it is:
1. that a lot of hunters use it and thus you may lose their trail;
2. or sometimes when traveling back...the angle of approach (and tape placement) can make it hard to see it (and sometimes you lose the trail).
Several hunters are lost each year due to this technique...keeps the SAR guys and gals busy :>)

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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
Common sense what's that???????

I hate land nav as that is my weak area. Give me a map and compass with a azmuth and I'll take you to the nearest bar 90 degrees away from where were heading. Hated running compass courses, and using a gps (sp) was just as bad.

One thing though with all the back country roads and goat trails we take, you must have a good sense of direction and always know a excape route (best way to get out on foot)if you break down. I'm always trying to keep a running map in my head of where were going and have been, thatway if somthing happens I'll have a rough idea of where we are and where we want to go.

Ps my pace count is 58
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I'm real big on Naviagation and we spend a lot of time developing it in our classes. The longer the class...the more we do.

We teach:

1. Map and compass nomenclature
2. How to use a compass to orient a map to the lay of the land.
3. How to triangulate to pinpoint your position.
4. How to use a map and compass to travel from point A to point B.
5. Cellestial naviagation.
6. Terrain navigation.
7. etc....

Each of these areas has sub topics to them.

learn to navigate and your never lost...maybe disoriented...but never lost. To re-orient...you just go to high ground and triangulate...

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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
Greg, I wasn't speaking of tape as much as marking the vegetation and trees as you walk. I've used this method a lot in the jungle. If you break over small vegetation backwards as you walk, on your return trip you can see the underside of the leaves real well. Non-leafy stuff can be broken over to point the direction of your back trail. Of course national lands might get a little pissed at you for scuffing up their woods
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I will also hack a small chip shoulder high in saplings as we go. I always put these on the visible side for return and mark two with any major direction change, with the second one being with the direction change.
The jungle people use this method a lot when cutting through new bush or making a new trail. I'm sure you will agree, and have seen, plenty of wilderness in the US that's just as bad, if not worse, than primary jungle.

As you mentioned, tape and flagging is also an excellent idea.

Not trying to take away from good compass work since it's absolutley essential, just adding a backup plan to the compass, since you're head will somtimes try to fool you into going the wrong way even though your compass tells you it's right.

I may be a complete idiot, but I've seen the time that I distrusted what my compass was reading, but used it anyway to find out it was actually right. Always take 2 compasses if possible and trust them. Disorientation can be a big problem in heavy wilderness, especially with heavy overcast and low visibility. - Jeff

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Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com

 
OK, I'm with you Jeff. Somehow...I visualized hunters taping a trail when I read your post....:>) Thanks for clarifying your intent...


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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
I normally sleep about five hours a night. I rarely watch TV. I constantly have something going on...and yes right now I am going crazy...Trying to stay down is one of the hardest things I have ever done and I have been through some rough situations.

Normally I wouldn't listen to the Doc and would go ahead and start doing things...but this time...I am going to do just as he said...I don't want any residual problems.

It is 4:20 AM right now and I went to sleep around midnight. I got bored sleeping. :>)

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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
Just for the record understand that I purposely presupposed,for the sake of example, that proper preparation was not taken and you must enter uncharted woods. Examples like police/S.W.A.T chasing a fleeing suspect into the woods with no time to view an arial map, car breaking down, your hunting guide dies on you,whatever. Many people in high risk jobs or activities plan for 99% of the situations,I try to be ready for that 1% as well. Murphy's Law seems to be the only law that you can depend on these days so I say, expect nothing and be ready for anything. So this would be kind of a spontaneous disaster plan if your original disaster plan goes belly-up..My inherent sense of direction (God given) is not very good so I have to work at it.......................Greg, I gotta try that drawing a map method as an excercise since when I pace count I always just add or subtract 180 degrees etc. and walk out the same way I came in.............Also, I am a fellow vampire. I sleep about 4 or 5 hours a night and can be woken up in the night by the sound of a squirrel taking a dump 1/2 mile away(well maybe I'm exagerating a little)..Thanks,,Rob
 
I'm a true believer in the simple, inexpensive compass.

About 25 years ago me and 2 others were X-County sking on the side of Mt. Shasta in N. CA (summit elev 14,000').

It was getting late and we encounted a "white out" with a sleet type of wet snow.
Since this was the pre gore tex and "layering" of clothing era, we had on jeans and sweatshirts.

We got soaked and were all shivering, and were maybe 3 miles from our vehicle.

We looked at each other and knew we had to get out of the area soon, but our tracks were
covered with snow/sleet. Each of us pointed to an entirely different direction where we thought the vehice was.

I had a compass and was aware which direction the road ran (east/west), and knew that we were on the north side of the road. We relied on the compass and headed south.

Soon we found the road and walked to the vehicle. Without the compass, it would have been difficult to survive that sub-freezing night soaking wet.

Just a few years ago, sadly, a couple X county sking near Tahoe (Kingsbury summit) got caught in a blizzard and were both found dead only about 200 yrs from a paved road.
If only they used a compass...
 
Ok Plainsman, I think you and Mr. Murphy have a date sometime in the future. I too used to be headmaster of the "How could anyone get lost" school. I thank God that Mr. Murphy beat me up enough to open my eyes but spared me for another go around. Nobody ever goes into the woods planning to get lost. It's usually an unplanned error (Are there any planned errors?) that throws you into most survival situations. I have yet to meet the person who doesn't make mistakes in the bush. I don't think of anyone as being "lost proof." They either have gotten lost, or are going to get lost one day. (Assuming they actually go into the woods and not just the back 40.) Here are some scenarios you probably haven't encountered yet, but are all too real. You lose your footing on a small incline and hit your head on a rock. You are out cold for a while but finally come to. You still have your long term memory but can't remember where you are. You make the mistake of carrying your nav tools in your pack and lose it while fording a small river. (Or in a rock slide) You need to trail the deer you shot,(You heard it fall just 100 yards ahead) and by the time you reach it (A mile and a half through the swamps) and gut it, it's long past dark. Since it was only a 100 yards, you only had your gun, knife, flashlight and compass. Now Mr. Murphy decides to say hello. You are bleeding profusely from the gash you got gutting your deer. You are now starting to get cold because you are dripping in sweat. You cut a piece of your shirt for a bandage and decide to head home. You think better of dragging the dear out. You'll get it in the morning. You took a compass reading before you left, so you start heading in that direction. You think to yourself how wierd it is that every tree looks the same in your small flashlight beam. It's a good thing you have your compass. The next step you take, you trip over one deadfall and smash into another one. You pick yourself up and find that your bulb in your flashlight is broken. Damn, you used your spare last year on that camping trip and never got around to replacing it. Now your starting to panic, the temperature is dropping real quick and you need to find your compass in the dark. After franticly pawing the ground for 15 minutes, you finally find it. It's smashed to bits.
No flames intended Plainsman, just wanted to make you think a bit.
Take care, (And a big knife)
Jim
 
HUNTER JIM: Not sure why that post was directed at me only. Whenever I go hunting, my pockets are full of goodies for survival and my day pack is on my back with enough stuff to spend a night in the woods. Mind you, it may not be a "comfortable" night, but I would have enough to stay a little warm, out of the weather and have a small meal. I would then take care of myself at first light.

As to the general direction thing...I was referring to something like, I'm north of said river or I'm east of some highway. If you keep something simple like that in mind you are NEVER really LOST, you just don't know your EXACT POSITION!

In my old hunting spot I always knew the major river was to the EAST and a road paralleled about 1-2 miles to the WEST! If I was in between I could head in either direction. If I was to the west of the road I always knew to head EAST. I may come out a mile or more North OR South of where I wanted, but at least I knew I was never truly LOST.

You have to use common sense and be ready for the unexpected. That way you don't get "beat up!"



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Plainsman :)
primitiveguy@hotmail.com


 
Plainsman,
The reason I addressed it to you was because of your statement about not understanding how someone could get lost. The content was directed at everyone. I just wanted to get people to think about how your situation can change at any moment, and how sometimes even with the best preparations, you can still be caught unaware. I also use your method of knowing where land marks are and how to get to them. The point I was trying to make was that when you lose the ability to know which way is west or east, you are technically "lost". There are plenty of instances when you aren't going to make it through the night to be able to see where the sun rises or to use the shadow stick method. Lot's of people die every year from one night of exposure.
In the scenario's I used, the person had a way to orient themselves. The problem came in when they lost that ability. It can happen very quickly. I truly believe that if you go into the wilderness on a regular basis, you will get lost at sometime. It is one of those "It happens to the other guy" type of things. Until it happens to you.
I think the best thing about the bulletin boards is sharing experiences with other people. On this board it's even more important because it can save someone's life. If I came off as being "preachy", that wasn't my intent.
Take care,
Jim
 
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