Leatherman Arc Order Placed

[Guy McVer]

First of all - there are 3-4-500 $ single blade knives out there that are being bought daily and people swear that they are worth it.

Of course they'd say that. How embarrassing would it be to admit that they wasted so much money when they could have gotten a quality knife for several hundred dollars less? Given how many people I've seen on here who spend a ton of money on knives and they don't even know how to sharpen them, I am not at all surprised.

In my personal opinion, the only reason to spend so much money on a knife is if you are having it hand crafted for you to the exact specifications that you already know you want. Then it would definitely be worth it. I would even say in some cases it would be worth even more money depending on the maker.

 

[the-accumulator]

Of course they'd say that. How embarrassing would it be to admit that they wasted so much money when they could have gotten a quality knife for several hundred dollars less? Given how many people I've seen on here who spend a ton of money on knives and they don't even know how to sharpen them, I am not at all surprised.

In my personal opinion, the only reason to spend so much money on a knife is if you are having it hand crafted for you to the exact specifications that you already know you want. Then it would definitely be worth it. I would even say in some cases it would be worth even more money depending on the maker.

Resale value might make the purchase of an expensive knife worth it for investment purposes. Personally, I prefer to get a really good deal on a good used knife so I can carry it and NOT be the one who puts the first scratch on it.
In 1975 I passed up a chance to buy 10 brand new Rudy Ruannas all for $200. Today they'd be worth $20K. At the time I was making $500/month and saving for college. Oh well, I'm sure I've made worse decisions in my life. T-A

 

[Guy McVer]

Resale value might make the purchase of an expensive knife worth it for investment purposes. Personally, I prefer to get a really good deal on a good used knife so I can carry it and NOT be the one who puts the first scratch on it.
In 1975 I passed up a chance to buy 10 brand new Rudy Ruannas all for $200. Today they'd be worth $20K. At the time I was making $500/month and saving for college. Oh well, I'm sure I've made worse decisions in my life. T-A

I think think this is quite a stretch on your part. Nobody can see the future, and purchasing something to be used is very different than purchasing something as an investment. While some people may think you are making a fair comment, I personally think you're reaching quite a bit. Just my opinion.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

garbage soft proprietary Leatherman flat bits. Man, I hate those bits! They suck and they're not individually replaceable. Why, Leatherman?! WHY U DO DIS?!

Those bits have kept me from buying a Wave for years.

I guess some people like them.

 

[Lesknife]

For me, my multi tools are more for backup rather than a primary tool especially the knife so a decent steel like 420hc is sufficient. I would rather have the premium steel knife blades on a more ergonomic handle platform as my dedicated/ primary using knife. And a MT isn’t the ideal platform for ergonomics. It will work in a pinch or when I’m cutting something messy to save my good knife but not as my main use. And that’s just how I roll.

The price on the standard models are already high enough and I just can’t spring for that price LM has on this Arc even with the Magnacut blade. The Arc is a cool MT and someone who will carry it for their only knife needs will certainly have a good one and that’s great for them. At least they have that choice now.

 

[SteeleJ1976]

I don't really understand the price related comments. Yes, I know it's not a pocket change for most people but...
First of all - there are 3-4-500 $ single blade knives out there that are being bought daily and people swear that they are worth it. Like benchmades, Chris Reeves. But when a good company makes a multi tool with so many attachments - god forbid if it's over of the 120-140 range. Second - in the recent years everything related to producing even a single screw has risen in cost, research and development takes time and resourses. It's only normal that the finished complex product would be with a higher tag. And last - you want to be payed well for the work you're doing, right ? Then why would Leatherman and the people working there not get payed well ?

Now on the tool it's self. I wasn't really a fan of the free series when they were introduced. Did not see them as an upgrade over the Wave/Surge and didn't really care about the butterfly pliers - my wave is so well worked in that it does the same. But I found a good deal on a p2 and took it to see what's it all about. Initially was't really impressed, most of the tools seemed gimmicky, especially compared to the ones on the Wave. But hey - I got it, might ass well carry it a bit. And boy, do I like it - the clip is so much superior to the Wave/Charge one. The best tool is the one you have with you when needed and the p2 is really great for pocket carry. The one hand tools are awesome when fishing. Even the file that so many people dislike works good, sharpens the hooks on my flies perfectly (pro tip - start touching up the hook every couple of fishes or 2-3 times throughout the day. Recently saw it on youtube and it make a huge difference in the bites I land). Screwdrivers aren't the best but they work. It does not have a saw which bothers me a bit but realistically I am yet to feel undertooled when carrying it. So in my eyes the Arc has all the good sides of the p2 and takes away pretty much all the downsides I saw in it.

I think Davis hits what my impression of the Arc is. The price initially is steep but cost average the fact that it will probably last you 25 years (Leatherman Warranty) that averages out to $10 a year. I think Leatherman only giving 1/2 of the bit kit is where they cheaped out and didn't even include the micro screwdriver is what is irritating. All that being said I won't be buying it I am happy with my Skeletool and Rebar.

 

[Guy McVer]

Leatherman only giving 1/2 of the bit kit is where they cheaped out and didn't even include the micro screwdriver is what is irritating.

There is already one inserted in the micro bit driver of the Arc, so I think it's a little strange to complain that they didn't include a second one with the bit kit.

What I would like to see is a cheaper version of the Arc which has a regular knife blade, no bit kit, and no sheath. That should substantially reduce the cost and I have to wonder why Leatherman chose not to offer something like that to make it more affordable.

 

[beeinak]

The main knife blade on my multitools gets used less than the rest of the tools because I always have multiple knives with me. I only have one MagnaCut knife right now, but I love how easily it strops to hair popping sharpness.

For me the ARC isn’t a tool I want (I love my Charge +), but I think it is great that Leatherman is offering a new steel that is very popular and may be a great option for those who use the knife blade a lot.

I don’t think that the price is terrible considering the overall tool, and that Leatherman is a great company.

They just replaced a blade free of charge on a tool that is over 23 years old. They had it less than a week- pretty great customer service.

 

[Quiet]

Of course they'd say that. How embarrassing would it be to admit that they wasted so much money when they could have gotten a quality knife for several hundred dollars less? Given how many people I've seen on here who spend a ton of money on knives and they don't even know how to sharpen them, I am not at all surprised.

In my personal opinion, the only reason to spend so much money on a knife is if you are having it hand crafted for you to the exact specifications that you already know you want. Then it would definitely be worth it. I would even say in some cases it would be worth even more money depending on the maker.

How embarrassing would it be to admit to everyone reading this that you don't understand why people like expensive knives....on a knife forum?

 

[Macchina]

The difficult thing for Leatherman on price is that you can't really compare the Arc price ($230) with the Wave+ retail price ($120).
The market (eBay) is super saturated with $60 Waves and Wave+. With their warranty you know you'll have a good working tool at that price for life (or until you lose it).

I said earlier in this thread that the Arc to me is simply a P2 and a Wave+ combined. But the more I thought about it you only carry one (normal people do at least) and by combining the 2 tools they may not have come up with much new, but the concept does not currently exist in their lineup. I will Definity pick up a used Arc in a few years...

 

[Guy McVer]

How embarrassing would it be to admit to everyone reading this that you don't understand why people like expensive knives....on a knife forum?

Not at all. I understand perfectly. I collect things too. Often times the things I collect have value to me that someone else wouldn't place on them, so I understand what it means to appreciate something in a way that other people don't. However, collecting things is entirely different than buying something expensive without realizing that you could've gotten something just as good or sometimes even better for substantially less money, especially when it is something which you actually intend to use on a regular basis. It's foolish, and yet you will often see people swear that they didn't waste their money. It's nonsense.

 

[Quiet]

Not at all. I understand perfectly. I collect things too. Often times the things I collect have value to me that someone else wouldn't place on them, so I understand what it means to appreciate something in a way that other people don't. However, collecting things is entirely different than buying something expensive without realizing that you could've gotten something just as good or sometimes even better for substantially less money, especially when it is something which you actually intend to use on a regular basis. It's foolish, and yet you will often see people swear that they didn't waste their money. It's nonsense.

What? It really isn't. That's literally how collecting things works. Do you believe that folks who want this moderately priced tool aren't aware of cheaper multitools? Also, your logic here seems poor. "It's nonsense that people think they didn't waste their money", when really, the only "waste" that happened is in your opinion. I mean, unless you're admitting, that you only carry/own an Opinel*, in which case if you don't, you're being hypocritical. This entire line of dialogue from you just seems to be your attempt at taking a dig at people who don't mind paying what something neat costs, when it's more than you think it should cost. How odd. Literally no one here is unaware that cheaper alternatives to neat new things exist. It doesn't make those cheaper alternatives better, and doesn't mean that it's silly to buy the expensive, useful new thing. If you're someone who carries a Leatherman, and who actually uses the knife on the tool, then a MagnaCut blade is objectively an upgrade. Many of us can sharpen, by the way, but having a blade you have to sharpen less is definitely an upgrade, there's really no argument against that that makes any sense.

Interesting that I'm having to defend a product with what's actually a pretty decent price for what you're getting, the more I look at it. I am not even really interested in this new Arc, but I'll probably end up with one at some point. $230 is cheap these days, especially if we're looking at what modern knives cost. With the Leatherman, you get a knife that also has a bunch of tools in addition. Also, objectively no cheaper alternative exists, as I am unaware of any other multitool with a MagnaCut main blade, so your stance has been a moot point anyway.


* One of the most efficient cutters on the market is a $13 wooden handled knife from France. Anything more's a waste of money, right?

 

[beeinak]

Not at all. I understand perfectly. I collect things too. Often times the things I collect have value to me that someone else wouldn't place on them, so I understand what it means to appreciate something in a way that other people don't. However, collecting things is entirely different than buying something expensive without realizing that you could've gotten something just as good or sometimes even better for substantially less money, especially when it is something which you actually intend to use on a regular basis. It's foolish, and yet you will often see people swear that they didn't waste their money. It's nonsense.

I think I understand your comments, but I also think most people do understand that a cheaper knife would do the job. On the opposite end of the spectrum I don’t understand people buying crap versus quality- such as as lousy tires, cheaply made optics, crappy tools, etc.
Things are worth what people will pay for them (other than sentimental value). To some, $500 for a carry knife isn’t expensive at all.

Not to sound corny, but to me the knife that puts a smile on your face is worth it.

 

[Guy McVer]

What? It really isn't. That's literally how collecting things works. Do you believe that folks who want this moderately priced tool aren't aware of cheaper multitools? Also, your logic here seems poor. "It's nonsense that people think they didn't waste their money", when really, the only "waste" that happened is in your opinion. I mean, unless you're admitting, that you only carry/own an Opinel*, in which case if you don't, you're being hypocritical. This entire line of dialogue from you just seems to be your attempt at taking a dig at people who don't mind paying what something neat costs, when it's more than you think it should cost. How odd. Literally no one here is unaware that cheaper alternatives to neat new things exist. It doesn't make those cheaper alternatives better, and doesn't mean that it's silly to buy the expensive, useful new thing. If you're someone who carries a Leatherman, and who actually uses the knife on the tool, then a MagnaCut blade is objectively an upgrade. Many of us can sharpen, by the way, but having a blade you have to sharpen less is definitely an upgrade, there's really no argument against that that makes any sense.

Interesting that I'm having to defend a product with what's actually a pretty decent price for what you're getting, the more I look at it. I am not even really interested in this new Arc, but I'll probably end up with one at some point. $230 is cheap these days, especially if we're looking at what modern knives cost. With the Leatherman, you get a knife that also has a bunch of tools in addition. Also, objectively no cheaper alternative exists, as I am unaware of any other multitool with a MagnaCut main blade, so your stance has been a moot point anyway.


* One of the most efficient cutters on the market is a $13 wooden handled knife from France. Anything more's a waste of money, right?

It's sort of entertaining to watch somebody do these kinds of mental gymnastics. Once again, buying something to actually use and buying something to collect are not the same things. When you added bold text to that part of my post, you conveniently stopped right before the end part of that sentence. You're trying to conflate the two in order to justify paying too much for something that you're going to be using when there isn't a meaningful functional difference between it and something less expensive. And this is just talking about knives.

When it comes to the blade on a multitool, it's much too small to justify having it made from an expensive super-steel, and with the Arc it's made worse because you get even less of an edge compared to the overall length of the blade. It's like taking something small and making it even smaller by reducing how much of the actual functioning part there is. The knife on a multitool is not intended to be be used in the same way that you would use a larger dedicated knife. It's for small quick tasks. If you need to do heavier blade work, then you reach for something that's actually intended for that kind of use.

I always said that if they ever made a multitool with an expensive super steel knife in it, then I would rightfully call it out for being stupid. Well, here we are, and that's exactly what I am doing. I get that there a some people who wanted this kind of thing all along. I'm glad for them since they they got their wish. I just don't agree with the design choice. I think there's a good reason why this isn't really done and I think it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

You could argue that the Arc is a good dollar value for having magnacut, but it hardly matters when you consider what a multitool knife is actually good for. If and when Leatherman makes a more affordable version with cheaper steel, then I will probably buy one.

 

[Davis Nikolov]

The difficult thing for Leatherman on price is that you can't really compare the Arc price ($230) with the Wave+ retail price ($120).

I had that conversation in another forum when the Curl was introduced.
Yes, you are right. At almost two Waves price it does not make a ton of sense to buy the Arc. To this day I believe the Wave to be the best all round multi tool. But that did not stop me from getting a dozen more different models
Probably, as happened with the Curl, it’s not that the Arc is expensive (compared to other Leathermans) but rather they are currently selling the Wave on a pretty low profit margin and when they set the price on the new Arc they added a nice profit. The price of the Wave has not changed for some time and most things related to production has risen in cost. Initially the Curl did not make a lot of sense price wise but few months later the older modes got a price increase and the Curl all of the sudden was a good price. Why they choose to do it this way is a mystery to me though.

 

[BlindMouse2of3]

I'm not opposed to the price but for me I use the pliers many times a day. And the plyers on a $60 sog blow the leathermans away. I could even entertain plyers that weren't great but I can't loose the one hand open. It's a deal breaker for me. I think I still have 4-6 leathermans from the 300 to the skeletool and in-between. The spring action on the wingman is a nice feature but the 2 handed opening kills me. 75% of the time I have a hand full when I grab my multitool.

As far as the blade is concerned I think I've used the serrated one for cardboard once and sheetrock once.... In the last 6 years. Both times because I didn't want to find where I set down the proper tool. Frankly they could omit the blades for another tool would make me so happy. Like a real wire stripper kinda like a scissors insert. I'd pay $230 for a multitool with quality tools and no blade.

Final thought is the sog with its connected jaws I can use it like a T handle for loosening oil caps or barrel bungs. It comes in handy in that capacity often. That use I know will drop the lifespan considerably but I can find them used for $40 if I look. That's 6 per arc and I've had this sog for at least 5 years now. So I'm safely into the it doesn't matter lifespan of a multitool.

 

[Quiet]

It's sort of entertaining to watch somebody do these kinds of mental gymnastics. Once again, buying something to actually use and buying something to collect are not the same things. When you added bold text to that part of my post, you conveniently stopped right before the end part of that sentence. You're trying to conflate the two in order to justify paying too much for something that you're going to be using when there isn't a meaningful functional difference between it and something less expensive. And this is just talking about knives.

When it comes to the blade on a multitool, it's much too small to justify having it made from an expensive super-steel, and with the Arc it's made worse because you get even less of an edge compared to the overall length of the blade. It's like taking something small and making it even smaller by reducing how much of the actual functioning part there is. The knife on a multitool is not intended to be be used in the same way that you would use a larger dedicated knife. It's for small quick tasks. If you need to do heavier blade work, then you reach for something that's actually intended for that kind of use.

I always said that if they ever made a multitool with an expensive super steel knife in it, then I would rightfully call it out for being stupid. Well, here we are, and that's exactly what I am doing. I get that there a some people who wanted this kind of thing all along. I'm glad for them since they they got their wish. I just don't agree with the design choice. I think there's a good reason why this isn't really done and I think it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

You could argue that the Arc is a good dollar value for having magnacut, but it hardly matters when you consider what a multitool knife is actually good for. If and when Leatherman makes a more affordable version with cheaper steel, then I will probably buy one.

I agree. You keep talking about people having to justify this or that, you're missing the overall point that you are not the arbiter of what constitutes value for others. You keep attempting to make these statements that make it seem like you are an objective judge for what's justifiable and what isn't. You aren't, sorry (heh, I'm not actualy sorry). Your super cheapness is entirely irrelevant to the decision making and value qualification processes of others.

By the way, I find it amusing in the extreme your argument of:

The knife on a multitool is not intended to be be used in the same way that you would use a larger dedicated knife. It's for small quick tasks. If you need to do heavier blade work, then you reach for something that's actually intended for that kind of use.

This is literally why multitools exist, small quick tasks. NO multitool will do the job as well as a dedicated tool, so why if you are trying to dismiss the knife blade? I mean, might as well dismiss the entire tool then. LOLOLOLOL Great argument.

In conclusion, it's not stupid for a multi-tool to have a blade made from a super steel. You're just super cheap, and don't want to pay what upgraded things cost. I get it, there's plenty of folks here who have to watch every dime. I understand. Oh, one final thing, "some people want"? I'm guessing it's a lot more than "some", since these Arcs are sold out virtually everywhere.

 

[shinyedges]

Got the tracking number but it still hasn't shipped, tomorrow is a week. Come on leatherman, I'm excited!

 

[InThePocket]

What I would like to see is a cheaper version of the Arc which has a regular knife blade, no bit kit, and no sheath. That should substantially reduce the cost and I have to wonder why Leatherman chose not to offer something like that to make it more affordable.

My guess is that they have a tool like this queued up for after they've sold enough Arcs. It's their new flagship and they want to get what they can out of the rollout. Offering something less expensive first or in tandem seems to me like it would hurt Arc sales, because a lot of people would feel exactly like you and opt for the lower-priced version. Honestly I probably would have done that too. It makes sense. I love all the features but I don't need Magnacut steel or fancy coatings. (Side note that the P2 and P4 are out of stock on the website and no longer listed under the Free section... retirement?)

____

However... the Arc being pretty much exactly the tool I've been wishing they would make, and no cheaper version being available, and me being the sucker that I am and wanting to splurge a little for my upcoming birthday, I ordered one, and it showed up this evening. LM family photos:

(

EDIT - looks like my image hosting site dropped the ball. I'll reupload these when I can.)

The Wave was a gift from my brother 20+ years ago. I keep it in the studio now as a guitar tool. It's better for that than the new designs. The selection of different size flat drivers, the small-ish Philips, the scissors, the file, the pliers and wire cutters... it's basically a guitar toolbox. It also has sentimental value and I don't want to beat it up anymore.

I bought the Charge almost 15 years ago when the Wave went missing for a few months. I've carried and used it a whole lot since then but I've never liked it - it's clunky to hold, the blade shape isn't great, digging the inside tools out is annoying, opening the scissors in open position is way too finicky, I pinch my hands between the handles... everything just feels too big and too small all at once. Maybe it'll go in the car. Maybe I'll pass it along to my son or somebody else.

I bought the T4 a couple years ago when I'd finally had it with carrying the Charge around. It's a great little tool. I've had it with me most days since I got it. The blade is much easier to use than the older tools. The only real gripes I have with it, aside from tools it doesn't have, are that the blade is kind of hard for me to open with that little cutout, and the tweezers get pressed out by accident a lot when I'm using other tools. The drivers are starting to get a bit worn and need extra care to use - the main reason I like the bit driver, I keep the extender and a spare full size bit or two in my wallet.

Ultimately though, the T4 isn't quite enough. I need something with pliers. I liked the idea of the P4 but it had too much stuff I didn't want and no bit driver or diamond file. I could get a sheath for the Wave, or keep sucking it up and using the Charge, but I don't wanna. I am also one of those people who uses the multitool blade rather than carrying a separate knife most of the time.

I don't have too much to say about the Arc yet except that it feels great to hold and everything seems really easy to use. The weight is about the same as the Charge but it's distributed better and the shape fits my hands well. I'm loving the thumb stud. Scissors take me two hands to open at the moment... that's ok. The saw teeth feel sharp and look pretty aggressive. The spring in the bit holder seems very secure. I am not noticing any fit or finish issues, so far I think it's the most stable and precisely made Leatherman I've held. Maybe I'll have some more thoughts later. Right now I'm just happy to have it.

 

[.577NE]

My guess is that they have a tool like this queued up for after they've sold enough Arcs. It's their new flagship and they want to get what they can out of the rollout. Offering something less expensive first or in tandem seems to me like it would hurt Arc sales, because a lot of people would feel exactly like you and opt for the lower-priced version. Honestly I probably would have done that too. It makes sense. I love all the features but I don't need Magnacut steel or fancy coatings. (Side note that the P2 and P4 are out of stock on the website and no longer listed under the Free section... retirement?)

____

However... the Arc being pretty much exactly the tool I've been wishing they would make, and no cheaper version being available, and me being the sucker that I am and wanting to splurge a little for my upcoming birthday, I ordered one, and it showed up this evening. LM family photos:

The Wave was a gift from my brother 20+ years ago. I keep it in the studio now as a guitar tool. It's better for that than the new designs. The selection of different size flat drivers, the small-ish Philips, the scissors, the file, the pliers and wire cutters... it's basically a guitar toolbox. It also has sentimental value and I don't want to beat it up anymore.

I bought the Charge almost 15 years ago when the Wave went missing for a few months. I've carried and used it a whole lot since then but I've never liked it - it's clunky to hold, the blade shape isn't great, digging the inside tools out is annoying, opening the scissors in open position is way too finicky, I pinch my hands between the handles... everything just feels too big and too small all at once. Maybe it'll go in the car. Maybe I'll pass it along to my son or somebody else.

I bought the T4 a couple years ago when I'd finally had it with carrying the Charge around. It's a great little tool. I've had it with me most days since I got it. The blade is much easier to use than the older tools. The only real gripes I have with it, aside from tools it doesn't have, are that the blade is kind of hard for me to open with that little cutout, and the tweezers get pressed out by accident a lot when I'm using other tools. The drivers are starting to get a bit worn and need extra care to use - the main reason I like the bit driver, I keep the extender and a spare full size bit or two in my wallet.

Ultimately though, the T4 isn't quite enough. I need something with pliers. I liked the idea of the P4 but it had too much stuff I didn't want and no bit driver or diamond file. I could get a sheath for the Wave, or keep sucking it up and using the Charge, but I don't wanna. I am also one of those people who uses the multitool blade rather than carrying a separate knife most of the time.

I don't have too much to say about the Arc yet except that it feels great to hold and everything seems really easy to use. The weight is about the same as the Charge but it's distributed better and the shape fits my hands well. I'm loving the thumb stud. Scissors take me two hands to open at the moment... that's ok. The saw teeth feel sharp and look pretty aggressive. The spring in the bit holder seems very secure. I am not noticing any fit or finish issues, so far I think it's the most stable and precisely made Leatherman I've held. Maybe I'll have some more thoughts later. Right now I'm just happy to have it.

Very nice write-up; thank you.