Let’s talk compasses

[leghog]

I use a Suunto sighting mirror compass with a declination adjustment
I retired out for sentimental reasons my Silva 15 from 1967

I buy for beginners a simple Silva 123 baseplate
It is 1000% adequate for their use for many years

A simple baseplate compass is not a "beginner's compass". It is simply a simple no nonsense compass. Orienteering/land navigation is mostly a mind game little improved by gadgetry. Beyond an accurate compass, a good topo sheet, and knowing the declination nothing is truly necessary. Personally I stick with simple and small compasses. The last few years I've been using a Brunton TruArc3 which has a global needle and tool-less declination adjustment. It's a very good compass and inexpensive. Nothing more fancy is needed for beginner or advanced.

Here's a Brunton TruArc3 set for the declination in my area.

 

[leghog]

I'm a big fan of compasses and have several. A couple of my other old marching/orienteering compasses. These two are induction damped.

Silva Typ1 from the 1930s (mils on top, degrees on bottom):

A Silva Type 6licensed to the Norway for their Army in the 1940s (mils on top, gradians on bottom):

 

[neeman]

A simple baseplate compass is not a "beginner's compass".

Yes I agree, but that is not the point I was making
The Silva 123 is a simple beginners baseplate compass that costs $10, it has no bells or whistles, and nothing to distract beginners
The compasses with the longer baseplate that you can take bearing off the map, that have romers, and a magnifying glass, with a adjustable declination are more for the continuous user in more rugged conditions

 

[leghog]

A compass with declination setting is better for everyone, especially beginners, as one must do the math only once, set the declination, then not consider it again. I don't understand what you mean about one being better than another based upon rugged conditions.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Leg, you have to remember that neeman has had to use a compass a few more times than most of us in conditions that were somewhat more critical. Also as good as his english is, if memory serves, its not his native tongue.
As an instructor, I would actually want to train my students to always be thinking about declination, and therefor start with a compass without an adjustment. Yes more chances for mistakes, but better training overall. I also think he meant that for the experienced user, the extra features are useful as the navigation and terrain becomes more difficult, not that durability is a concern.

 

[22-rimfire]

In my opinion, there is little question that you should set the approx magnetic declination for the area you are in. For relatively short distances and not a huge adjustment, I tend to just leave it on magnetic north without a declination adjustment. But the difference here is not that significant and I am more concerned with "am I going in the general right direction?" than a compass survey. I have done compass surveys in the past. I tend to use the map a lot more than the compass other than to verify what my directions are and I can orient the map properly.

I use a small plastic Brunton brand with a mirror and declination adjustment generally if I have a compass with me. No, Leghog, I am not using a regular Brunton pocket transit for this kind of stuff.

 

[leghog]

As an instructor, I would actually want to train my students to always be thinking about declination, and therefor start with a compass without an adjustment. Yes more chances for mistakes, but better training overall.

Once you understand declination, there is no reason to keep converting from grid/map to compass or back. Teach the declination, then teach how to adjust the compass. When the student understands declination, he understands it.

 

[leghog]

In my opinion, there is little question that you should set the approx magnetic declination for the area you are in. For relatively short distances and not a huge adjustment, I tend to just leave it on magnetic north without a declination adjustment. But the difference here is not that significant and I am more concerned with "am I going in the general right direction?" than a compass survey. I have done compass surveys in the past. I tend to use the map a lot more than the compass other than to verify what my directions are and I can orient the map properly.

I use a small plastic Brunton brand with a mirror and declination adjustment generally if I have a compass with me. No, Leghog, I am not using a regular Brunton pocket transit for this kind of stuff.

Here in central VA the declination is now 10Wdegrees. That is significant.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Once you understand declination, there is no reason to keep converting from grid/map to compass or back. Teach the declination, then teach how to adjust the compass. When the student understands declination, he understands it.

You and I have different teaching styles. And to be fair, its been a while since I did actually have students old enough and doing nav complex enough where declination mattered. But even when teaching adults, I never consider the job done if I've only taught it once. I also don't consider that I understand a skill until I've been able to teach it multiple times, so I'll readily admit that my nav skills are not where they should be.

Where I am, the declination is 11deg east, its not a measuring contest, 2 can screw you as bad as 12 if you aren't paying attention.
Leg, just a friendly suggestion. You are using a lot of definitive language, and that makes it seem as though you are not here to debate and learn so much as to bestow knowledge. I would suggest that presents you in a much more arrogant light than you intend. Unless you are saying what you mean, in that case, there isn't much more to discuss.

 

[Pilsner]

Declination comes and goes. When I was born the declination here was between 6 - 10 degrees West across the UK. Now it between 0 - 4 degrees West. I personally think that people should be taught to calculate and apply declination as part of learning to navigate, but I choose to use a compass with which I can fix the declination. I still force myself to do the mental calculations when I visit a new place or plot a route, but that is due to experience teaching me that the less I use it the more I lose it. That is, at least, when it comes to retaining information in the grey matter.

I think this is a good discussion, and it is great to get a range of views out there. Thank you all for your contributions so far.

 

[leghog]

You and I have different teaching styles. And to be fair, its been a while since I did actually have students old enough and doing nav complex enough where declination mattered. But even when teaching adults, I never consider the job done if I've only taught it once. I also don't consider that I understand a skill until I've been able to teach it multiple times, so I'll readily admit that my nav skills are not where they should be.

Where I am, the declination is 11deg east, its not a measuring contest, 2 can screw you as bad as 12 if you aren't paying attention.
Leg, just a friendly suggestion. You are using a lot of definitive language, and that makes it seem as though you are not here to debate and learn so much as to bestow knowledge. I would suggest that presents you in a much more arrogant light than you intend. Unless you are saying what you mean, in that case, there isn't much more to discuss.

Compasses can be simple or complicated. That includes baseplate compasses. My point was to debunk the myth the most basic baseplate compass is a better beginner's compass. There are other features which can make a baseplate compass much better for beginners. That's why I mention Brunton's Truarc3 which is more forgiving regarding both magnetic declination (since the declination can be set) and magnetic dip (with its global needle). It's also inexpensive. A quality instrument better suited for beginners than Silva's 123.

 

[neeman]

Let me explain better
My audience are simple day middle aged hikers that are going on 10 to 15 km day hikes
Never seen a topo map let alone a compass
They hike on routes blazed with markings
99% of the time the just follow the colored marking
Also they can do this for most of the Israel Trail
(Until they get to the open desert- Later)

So they ask how do we know where we are on the map on the marked trail
How do we know we took the correct turn on the trail
So I ask what direction are you facing?
Dunno...
(I print out copies of the local area from the internet)
Look at the map
Look at your compass
So they learn that on a circular route, they can know where they are by direction
A split in the trail they can check by direction
So they learn basic skills in corresponding map to terrain
They can go off on their weekend hikes with some sort of map and compass skill
The Silva 123 is excellent for that (and readily available in all the hiking stores)
Confuse them with declination, would be a death sentence for them and not needed

If they are hiking the Israel Trail and are in desert which is open country
Then bearings and back bearing, and the local 4 degrees declination are skills that are needed
But the kids blithely use the GPS in their smart phone....

 

[22-rimfire]

You often have to follow yourself along on a map as you hike knowing your starting point and looking at the topography. For the most part, I am hiking on or near a marked trail or a marked roadway of some sort. Yes, if you get off the trail and have no idea which direction the trail is, that could be a problem. Of course the other problem is recognizing the trail as you make your way back to your known route or "highway". I enjoy actually tracking my progress on a topo map. It adds a little more interest to the hike. I often do go exploring off trail but I try to know my directions sufficient to get me back to the trail pathway. On occasion, the trail markings are rather indistinct and you may not recognize a trail when you get there.

It doesn't matter to me if I'm moving back to the trail from the open woods if I go to the exact area I left; I just want to find the path and go on comfortably. That's why I really don't pay a lot of attention to the declination. I set it for my home and it will vary a bit from that where I am wandering.

 

[Pilsner]

That is fair comment, 22-rimfire . The thread is not specifically about best practice in teaching navigation, but rather about what members here prefer to use themselves. Some contributors are teachers, but the only people I’ve ever taught to use a map and compass are my kids.

It’s good to hear all points of view, I think. What you describe sounds perfectly reasonable and, like you, I prefer to consult a topo map now and then, even when I am on a well established track. Adds interest, so to speak.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Its also not a bad idea depending on where you are, a buddy of mine was in new zealand and found that the track that was supposed to be well marked was in fact closed! Of course the locals knew so no one replaced the closure sign when it rotted and fell over. The maps for my local area were done about 40 years ago, so there are a few changes in a couple trails, nothing major, but the maps were not re-done, so its worth knowing if your trail should be going uphill or across.

 

[Sid Post]

Is the Silva Explorer 203 sold in the USA? I saw what appeared to be a similar model (or the same) under a different name (Explorer 2.0) at an online retailer in the USA. Seems to be a very good model at a modest (<$20) price point.

 

[Mannlicher]

my main compass is a MOD Brit surplus Silva Type 4/54 with tritium inserts. I also carry a True Nord button on a wrist band. Good for quick checks. I have an older Brunton lensatic compass times when that is more suitable. I prefer a compass and map to my GPS gear.

 

[Astrogator]

But what if you don't have a map , but only have your trusty magnetic compass in your pocket when you get lost ?.
Has the skill of using a magnetic compass without a map been lost , as I never see this topic mentioned very often.
Also I feel that it is not necessary for an adjustable declination scale , an accurate simple plain jane compass is all you need.
.

Peace.

 

[John A. Larsen]

I spent 30 years in the U.S. Army, 24 in Special Forces and used a map and compass to navigate in some pretty remote areas, often with maps that were very old, like from a British survey in 1927, updated by the Japanese in 1944, further updated by the USA in 1969 and this was in 1989 (Thailand). I also got to teach Map & Compass, 90 minutes at a time, 5 times a day at three Camp Jeeps. That was a lot of fun, and nice to see peoples eyes pop open when they understood the use of contour lines and a compass. I want a compass that I can set the declination scale, as if you are tired and forget to adjust from map to compass, you can have a big problem. The declination here in Washington is something like 22 degrees easterly, so do not account for that, and you will have a very big problem. For the question right above by Astrogator if you are just using a compass, no map involved, you do not need to worry about declination error. If you look at a distance point and read an azimuth of 180 degrees, but it is really 202 degrees (if you are using a map) it does not matter, follow the 180 degrees you sighted and you will get where you were going. Do this from a map and you are 22 degrees off, and again you will have a big problem. One technique I have not seen mentioned here is Off Set, where you deliberately calculate an azimuth that will take you to one side or another of your destination. I used this one night in Vermont or New Hampshire when heading for a shelter on the AT. It was about 0200, and about -20 degrees F, and I did not want to screw around, so since we were moving due West to the AT, I calculated an azimuth that would bring us on to the AT South of the shelter, so when we hit the trail, we would turn North and move until we hit the shelter. Worked just fine. You need to have some definite geographical or man made object/trail/road/ridge line so when you hit it you know which way to turn. I have been using a Suunto MC-1 for many years, and recently acquired a MC-2, before that it was a Silva Ranger. I like the mirror, and would tell my students that if you were lost and did not know anything, you could look in the mirror, now you know who is lost, now you know something and can start to figure out where. One time at Camp Jeep the Silva representative came by and I asked here why the Silva Compasses we had now said "Made in Finland", and she just replied "I do not want to talk about it", leading me to believe at least at that time Silva's were being made by Suunto Oy. John PS I like that Silva Typ1 that Leghog posted above!

 

[leghog]

Offset was taught in the 1970s BSA Orienteering Merit Badge (I'm sure it still is). That's where I learned of it. Surest way to most quickly find a road junction (or another point that's not a major terrain feature --- like a shed, shelter, etc). Add a few degrees to the azimuth, then when you hit the road, you know the junction you are looking for will be to your left.