Let's talk about the Buck Vantage

M

Midnight Rider

Gold Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2023
Messages
298
Hello, all.
I've been waiting for quite a while to try out one of the Vantage models. This is my second flipper knife, ever, the first being a Buck 840 Sprint Select. I picked up the 346 Large Vantage Avid. I'd like to share my thoughts, and hopefully gain some insight from other users here.

For the record, this Vantage is a round 2 knife. I had to return the first example because it had some pretty major fit/adjustment issues. I don't object to cleaning and oiling a new knife, it's just part of the break in process. But alignment and adjustment should be right on a new knife, so, round 2.

First, I want to say that the overall look and feel of the blade and handle are very pleasing, to me. The grind is even, it is razor sharp, it feels good in the hand. The blade is almost dead center in the frame. It locks up firmly and there is no noticeable play, side to side or vertically. Using the thumb hole to open, it feels smooth, not gritty.

However, I cannot get this thing to act like a "flipper". Action of the pivot is very stiff for the full extent of travel, both opening and closing. If I try using the flipper to open, I can get at most half way. The action on my 840 is worlds different, which I was able to flip open with ease the very first time, and every time since. In fact, it's fun to fidget with.

I tried cleaning the pivot on my new Vantage, which did have a substantial amount of black polishing gunk seeping out of it. I used warm soapy water, followed by a thorough blow dry from my air compressor, then two drops of Hoppe's oil. It still feels very stiff.

I really want to love this knife. It is functional without the flipper, but half the fun of it to me is using the flip.
20240123_150804.jpg
20240123_150816.jpg
Thanks for any thoughts/ideas you all want to share!
 
The Vantage is a great knife! I love the blade shape, size, etc..
I was a little disappointed myself too discover it didn't flip well, if at all.
Then I read an interview by Chuck Buck from many years back. He explained that it was never meant to be a flipper. I was no longer disappointed that it didn't flip.
If you can find an early version, the frame is screwed together rather than riveted so there's a little more tinkering (tuning) that can be done.
Ultimately, I put the 20CV blade and burlap handles on an old frame, and it's much closer to a flipper than it was intended to be.

20220302_071130.jpg20220302_071121.jpg
 
I wanted to add that you can try different washers. Try Teflon spacers thinner than the existing ones. The looser the fit at the blade end, the more off center the blade gets. It doesn't take much for it to hit the frame.
 
Last edited:
the way I get mine to flip open is to push direct on the tab firm and fast, and push straight to the frame. not pull through it. it's hard to describe how i do it. i use no wrist flopping momentum this way. I typed it the best way I know how to describe it. I have dozens of vantages and I can flip them all open, but one. it's not a great flipper knife though.

I also don't clean them, oil and/or change washers or any of that. loosening the pivot doesn't seem to make much of a difference either on a bad flipper one. the one I can't flip open I had to loosen to the point of blade wobble and it still wasn't a good flipper.
 
So the Vantage isn't meant to be a flipper? That's a bummer. And curious, what is the purpose of the tab? I can still enjoy this knife on its merits, it's not hopeless. But I will practice my technique on the flipping, just cause. I pride myself on having strong hands. I work in landscaping, and I enjoy working on equipment from chain saws to diesel engine maintenance and repair. I've also been playing guitar for over 30 years, so dexterity isn't an issue for me. I'll keep practicing. Thanks for the input, and I hope to read more experiences!
 
I like my Vantage, but it’s definitely not my favorite Buck flipper. And yes, it absolutely is a flipper. I have a few Sprint Pro’s, a just-arrived Sprint Select, and one or two other flippers, and the Vantage has probably the worst action of all of them. My opinion, the flipper tab is just too short to get enough leverage for an easy flip, key word here being ‘easy’. I can flip it regularly, but it’s one of those that you have to hold just right, and as jbmonkey described, it needs a precise finger motion, and I still get a few too many misfires. But it’s a great looking knife that I’m still happy to have in my collection - it just doesn’t get used much. My Sprints, on the other hand, have some of the best action of any of the flippers I own, some costing a good bit more.
 
I can get them to flip, but it's all in the wrist.
I cannot do it otherwise.
I also think there's a bit of a break in process with those, as the more I use it, the better the action and lockup on it gets.

There's talk of an improved Vantage in the works.
I think it's due for an upgrade.
 
If the Vantage was never supposed to be flipper, Buck's marketing team needs to be told that. Here is how they advertise the 346 on their website:



I have 15 Vantages, a mixture of larges and smalls, and none flipped very good from the start. I believe there are some design flaws in this model. So, I've taken many apart and tried different modifications to see if I could improve the action and have found a few things that can make a real difference:

From the factory, the opening detent is not very strong. The internal stop pin (under the scales, above the pivot) travels in slots and I've removed a small amount of material in the end of the slot to allow for the blade to close a little bit further. This results in the detent ball dropping deeper into the detent hole in the blade making for a more crisp breaking of the built up tension during flipping. Buck could probably correct this easier by tweaking the detent hole position in the blade.

To improve closing, I've added detent ball ramps to the bottom of several Vantage blades. This helps make the transition from fully open to the start of closing much smoother.

These two improvements alone do not solve the sluggish nature of the Vantage's action. I looked at what makes liner lock knives fly open and drop shut and discovered that they usually have a decent relief cut into the scale so that the liner lock can retract far enough to take the pressure off the detent ball, eliminating nearly all of the friction between the ball and the blade tang surface. The Buck Sprint, for example, has a nice recess cutout allowing the lock to get out of the way of the blade during travel. This, I believe, is the biggest engineering flaw of the Vantage. It has no such relief cut. It causes the ball to contact the blade tang with an excessive amount of force, slowing any momentum the blade has flipping open or falling closed. To correct this, I've removed a few thousandths of the handle material right behind the liner lock and now have faster, more reliable opening action as well as smoother, faster closing. If you're wondering, I do not loosen the pivots. They are adjusted fairly tight for zero side to side play.

I think Buck would be wise to implement a stronger detent, detent ball ramps and add a liner lock relief cut to the handle of their Vantage line. I believe most users would be very pleased with these improvements. This is the 15th anniversary of the Vantage and I would love to see them stay in Buck's lineup for many more years to come... with improvements, of course.
 
I carried a Vantage for a while. It was the one with the black plastic handles. I love the blade shape. I typically don’t carry pocket clip knives but I got it for short money. I’m not a fan of flippers, or thumb holes or liner locks for that matter, but my knife whipped open pretty easily. I could see myself carrying it more if it had a stud and the handles were a little more robust (textured G10) and a black clip. Overall, despite all the things I don't typically care for in a knife, I enjoyed using it while it rode in my patrol bag. I could get a wicked edge on it. I got it with a missing clip screw and Buck sent me one for free.
 
Broken record time . . . I like almost everything about the Vantage except . . . it's too small. It was very cool to get a knife in S30V for such a reasonable price years ago when S30V was the top of the line. If they made an XL with a four inch blade (and without increasing the stock thickness), I'd be all over it.
 
rhino said:
Broken record time . . . I like almost everything about the Vantage except . . . it's too small. It was very cool to get a knife in S30V for such a reasonable price years ago when S30V was the top of the line. If they made an XL with a four inch blade (and without increasing the stock thickness), I'd be all over it.
Click to expand...
yes. this has been my pitch here since I started coming. think my first post in this forum was wanting a bigger/ xl vantage.
 
I made a video of how I flip mine open without any wrist action but the video file is to large. I have seen other video clips on here so I know there’s a way. I just haven’t figured it out yet. Sorry
 
plb said:
If the Vantage was never supposed to be flipper, Buck's marketing team needs to be told that. Here is how they advertise the 346 on their website:



I have 15 Vantages, a mixture of larges and smalls, and none flipped very good from the start. I believe there are some design flaws in this model. So, I've taken many apart and tried different modifications to see if I could improve the action and have found a few things that can make a real difference:

From the factory, the opening detent is not very strong. The internal stop pin (under the scales, above the pivot) travels in slots and I've removed a small amount of material in the end of the slot to allow for the blade to close a little bit further. This results in the detent ball dropping deeper into the detent hole in the blade making for a more crisp breaking of the built up tension during flipping. Buck could probably correct this easier by tweaking the detent hole position in the blade.

To improve closing, I've added detent ball ramps to the bottom of several Vantage blades. This helps make the transition from fully open to the start of closing much smoother.

These two improvements alone do not solve the sluggish nature of the Vantage's action. I looked at what makes liner lock knives fly open and drop shut and discovered that they usually have a decent relief cut into the scale so that the liner lock can retract far enough to take the pressure off the detent ball, eliminating nearly all of the friction between the ball and the blade tang surface. The Buck Sprint, for example, has a nice recess cutout allowing the lock to get out of the way of the blade during travel. This, I believe, is the biggest engineering flaw of the Vantage. It has no such relief cut. It causes the ball to contact the blade tang with an excessive amount of force, slowing any momentum the blade has flipping open or falling closed. To correct this, I've removed a few thousandths of the handle material right behind the liner lock and now have faster, more reliable opening action as well as smoother, faster closing. If you're wondering, I do not loosen the pivots. They are adjusted fairly tight for zero side to side play.

I think Buck would be wise to implement a stronger detent, detent ball ramps and add a liner lock relief cut to the handle of their Vantage line. I believe most users would be very pleased with these improvements. This is the 15th anniversary of the Vantage and I would love to see them stay in Buck's lineup for many more years to come... with improvements, of course.
Click to expand...
So you're going with design flaw?
On a model that's been very popular over the years? A model that is arguably Buck's best pocket knives that's not a lock back? A model than Chuck Buck himself touted as his very favorite, and carried exclusively?

Thanks, but no...

I'll stick to the words I recall coming directly from Chuck himself. I wish I could find the video, but I just don't care enough.

There's this, of course (for what it's worth). It doesn't sound like Buck was upset that it couldn't be reliably flipped.
Screenshot_20240123_184336_Chrome.jpg

If the intent was to build a flipper, how could they let tens of thousands (if not more) of these out with such a flaw?
They didn't!

I'll admit when I'm wrong or let you know if I'm speculating when I speculate. I remember the video plain as day and it made absolute sense.
 
MT_Pokt said:
So you're going with design flaw?
Click to expand...

I remember Chuck's video and it prompted me to buy my first Vantage. But after 15 years with no improvements to the original design, I'm sticking with design flaw. I figured I would get some blow back about this, but I've outlined 3 things Buck could do to make an otherwise great knife even better. No wrist action is required with these modifications.
 
Loved the blade, hated the lock. I don't care about flipping a knife open, I have autos for that. For me, the lock release was too easy to engage while holding the knife, because it was exposed by both scales. Other than that, it's a great knife with the best pocket clip.
 
Just because you don't like a design doesn't mean it's flawed.
I love my Camaro but the fact that it don't handle the muddy mountain trails as well as my jeep doesn't mean it's flawed....

I'll say no more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top