Since there are a lot of watch junkies here, I was wondering if anyone can answer this for me. I know the latest watches come with Tritium vials or Tritium coated hands and markers which are extremely bright but still fade out over time, (10-25 years). I have an old Rolex Submariner that I bought new back in 1975. The hands and the second hand "dot" used to glow nicely but at about the 10 year mark faded out and is now long gone. I have an older 17 jewel automatic Seiko "Scuba Diver" that I bought new in about 1993. I know it does not have Tritium vials or paint but yet it stills glows very brightly in the dark and is very easy to read. It is not the "charged with light" paint either, (of course). What do watch companies use now if they don't use Tritium? Whatever Rolex used in the 70's and 80's was junk because I know those older ones luminescense is long gone. Does anybody have a newer Rolex and know what they are using and how bright are they? I DO know in the old days they actually used Radium which killed some factory workers but would glow forever. I was just wondering because when you pay $1,000.00-$3,000.00 for a watch, it is an investment and with our modern technology should glow for 50 years or more. One of the reasons I won't buy Tritium watches.
Luminescence On Watch Hands And Faces?
- Thread starter Gene
- Start date
A great resource for this kind of question is the Military Watch Resource Forum:
www.broadarrow.net
Tritium has a half life of like 12 years(don't quote me on that), so your watch may have just "worn out" the Tritium.
MWR had a thread on re-luminescing, if that's a word, older H3 watches, and a list of places that will do it. They'll have an answer, somewhere
A popular alternative to tritium is called LumiNova, which supposedly is quite bright, and holds the level of brightness for a long while.It's not a radioactive item, AFAIK.
*Nothing* I've seen, though, is even close to the tritium vials like you see on a Luminox. But you're kind of limited to their brand, I think.
www.broadarrow.net
Tritium has a half life of like 12 years(don't quote me on that), so your watch may have just "worn out" the Tritium.
MWR had a thread on re-luminescing, if that's a word, older H3 watches, and a list of places that will do it. They'll have an answer, somewhere
A popular alternative to tritium is called LumiNova, which supposedly is quite bright, and holds the level of brightness for a long while.It's not a radioactive item, AFAIK.
*Nothing* I've seen, though, is even close to the tritium vials like you see on a Luminox. But you're kind of limited to their brand, I think.
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Fish -- that would be awesome. My dream watch is a Seamaster with a blue face and tritium markers (preferably the brighter variety like the Luminox ones).
Let me know if you find anything.
Clay
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Clay Fleischer
clay_fleischer@yahoo.com
AKTI Member A000847
Let me know if you find anything.
Clay
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Clay Fleischer
clay_fleischer@yahoo.com
AKTI Member A000847
Bronco
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Gene,
To address a couple of the points raised, it's very likely that your Rolex does, in fact, have tritium hands and indices. Take a look at the very bottom of the dial and you may see in extremely tiny letters something like "T<25". Even if these markings aren't present, there's still a good chance the hands are tritium, but if the markings are there, then you know for a fact you have tritium on your Rolie.
As JohnG mentioned, Luminova is one of the newer, non-tritium enhanced, luminescence compounds. For whatever reasons, some countries are now restricting the importation of "radioactive" materials, which tritium, despite its relative harmlessness, technically qualifies as. These rulings have really opened up the market for products such as Luminova. In my experience, Luminova tends to glow very brightly initially, but gradually decreases in luminosity until its next exposure to light. Tritium, on the other hand, especially once its a few years old, is not nearly so bright initially, but will maintain this level regardless of exposure to light.
If you happen to own a tritium watch and a Luminova watch (and enjoy experiments), I would suggest putting both in a light proof container some evening and then setting your alarm clock for 4:30 in the morning. Once the alarm goes off, remove the watches from the container and view both under the bedcovers, or in as near total darkness as you can muster. You may be surprised how much brighter the tritium appears under these circumstances. I understand when you say that it seems as though the tritium illumination on your Rolex is useless (and, in truth, your Rolex is old enough that the tritium actually has lost a significant percentage of its luminescence), but the fact of the matter is that there are few places left in this country where it actually gets dark enough at night for the tritium hands to show somewhat brightly. In total darkness it's often a different story, however.
The Luminox brand tritium vial watches are ingenious because they actually combine the best elements of both. The insides of those glass vials are coated with a phosphorescent compound not unlike Luminova. The tritium within the vials doesn't glow on its own as much as it continually energizes the aforementioned phosphorescent coating. It's essentially the same effect you would see if the hands on a Luminova watch were being constantly exposed to visible light. And yes, these are definitely an order of magnitude brighter than any other non-electric illumination systems.
I agree that it would be fantastic if you could retrofit your non-Luminox watch with Luminox style tritium vial hands. The one thing you have to bear in mind, however, is that the glass vial hands are significantly thicker than most normal watch hands. In many cases, there's simply not enough room between the dial face and the underside of the crystal to accomodate these hands. Some get around this problem by also installing an aftermarket domed acrylic crystal. I personally don't like the acrylic crystals because I don't really care for the domed look, and because they scratch so easily, but the military watch buffs absolutely love them and would respond by saying that most scratches can be somewhat easily polished out.
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Semper Fi
-Bill
To address a couple of the points raised, it's very likely that your Rolex does, in fact, have tritium hands and indices. Take a look at the very bottom of the dial and you may see in extremely tiny letters something like "T<25". Even if these markings aren't present, there's still a good chance the hands are tritium, but if the markings are there, then you know for a fact you have tritium on your Rolie.
As JohnG mentioned, Luminova is one of the newer, non-tritium enhanced, luminescence compounds. For whatever reasons, some countries are now restricting the importation of "radioactive" materials, which tritium, despite its relative harmlessness, technically qualifies as. These rulings have really opened up the market for products such as Luminova. In my experience, Luminova tends to glow very brightly initially, but gradually decreases in luminosity until its next exposure to light. Tritium, on the other hand, especially once its a few years old, is not nearly so bright initially, but will maintain this level regardless of exposure to light.
If you happen to own a tritium watch and a Luminova watch (and enjoy experiments), I would suggest putting both in a light proof container some evening and then setting your alarm clock for 4:30 in the morning. Once the alarm goes off, remove the watches from the container and view both under the bedcovers, or in as near total darkness as you can muster. You may be surprised how much brighter the tritium appears under these circumstances. I understand when you say that it seems as though the tritium illumination on your Rolex is useless (and, in truth, your Rolex is old enough that the tritium actually has lost a significant percentage of its luminescence), but the fact of the matter is that there are few places left in this country where it actually gets dark enough at night for the tritium hands to show somewhat brightly. In total darkness it's often a different story, however.
The Luminox brand tritium vial watches are ingenious because they actually combine the best elements of both. The insides of those glass vials are coated with a phosphorescent compound not unlike Luminova. The tritium within the vials doesn't glow on its own as much as it continually energizes the aforementioned phosphorescent coating. It's essentially the same effect you would see if the hands on a Luminova watch were being constantly exposed to visible light. And yes, these are definitely an order of magnitude brighter than any other non-electric illumination systems.
I agree that it would be fantastic if you could retrofit your non-Luminox watch with Luminox style tritium vial hands. The one thing you have to bear in mind, however, is that the glass vial hands are significantly thicker than most normal watch hands. In many cases, there's simply not enough room between the dial face and the underside of the crystal to accomodate these hands. Some get around this problem by also installing an aftermarket domed acrylic crystal. I personally don't like the acrylic crystals because I don't really care for the domed look, and because they scratch so easily, but the military watch buffs absolutely love them and would respond by saying that most scratches can be somewhat easily polished out.
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Semper Fi
-Bill
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This is the Omega Seamaster 2250.80 model. Same size as the Bond model, but with the oyster-style bracelet, steel bevel, sword-style hands, and classic hour markers. I belive it came with the Bond-style bracelet last year, and could probably still be found in some jewelry stores.
The model pictured is one I'm hoping to get one day soon. I really like the Bond model too, but think this one has a more timeless style to it.
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Kelly
My Custom Knife Collection
Member NCCKG, SCAK, and AKTI
Deo Vindice
[This message has been edited by Senator (edited 05-17-2001).]
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Kelly -- that is eactly my dream watch as well. You obviously have excellent taste!
I love sword-shaped hands (more surface area for luminescent paint). I like blue and silver together as a colour combination.
Anyone know why the big name watchmakers like Rolex, Omega, etc aren't using tritum vials?
Bronco -- thanks for the great info. Seems like a domed sapphire crystal would be helpful -- large enough to accomodate the vials, no worries about scratches.
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Clay Fleischer
clay_fleischer@yahoo.com
AKTI Member A000847
I love sword-shaped hands (more surface area for luminescent paint). I like blue and silver together as a colour combination.
Anyone know why the big name watchmakers like Rolex, Omega, etc aren't using tritum vials?
Bronco -- thanks for the great info. Seems like a domed sapphire crystal would be helpful -- large enough to accomodate the vials, no worries about scratches.
------------------
Clay Fleischer
clay_fleischer@yahoo.com
AKTI Member A000847
Bronco
Moderator
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Glad to be of assistance, Clay.
I can't say for sure, but licensing and/or copyright issues may have something to do with why Rolex, Omega, et al. aren't using tritium vials in their watches. Hesco/Meprolight also markets a line of watches with vial illumination, so Luminox's control of this technology can't be absolute. But, be that as it may, if you combine these potential licensing issues with the fact that, as I mentioned earlier, a larger and larger percentage of the countries which comprise Rolex and Omega's target market, are now outlawing the importation of watches with tritium, I guess it's not such a surprise that the big two haven't embraced this technology.
If you'd like to further pursue potential watch modification projects, there's a watchmaker by the name of Eric Martin up in Seattle, I believe, who has a sterling reputation amongst the military watch crowd. You may want to discuss your ideas with him. Here's a link to his site:
http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Fund/8020/index.htm
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Semper Fi
-Bill
[This message has been edited by Bronco (edited 05-17-2001).]
I can't say for sure, but licensing and/or copyright issues may have something to do with why Rolex, Omega, et al. aren't using tritium vials in their watches. Hesco/Meprolight also markets a line of watches with vial illumination, so Luminox's control of this technology can't be absolute. But, be that as it may, if you combine these potential licensing issues with the fact that, as I mentioned earlier, a larger and larger percentage of the countries which comprise Rolex and Omega's target market, are now outlawing the importation of watches with tritium, I guess it's not such a surprise that the big two haven't embraced this technology.
If you'd like to further pursue potential watch modification projects, there's a watchmaker by the name of Eric Martin up in Seattle, I believe, who has a sterling reputation amongst the military watch crowd. You may want to discuss your ideas with him. Here's a link to his site:
http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Fund/8020/index.htm
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Semper Fi
-Bill
[This message has been edited by Bronco (edited 05-17-2001).]
Win Heger
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I had a Luminox and a SMP at the same time.
Without a doubt the Luminox was brighter in the early morning hours. The Luminova loses its brightness over night, but is still readable in the early morning.
I wear a blue face SMP (like above) or an
Omega GMT black face every day to work. I go from a bright sunlit office to a dimly lit
warehouse, boy does the Luminova glow. I can't go to the warehouse without admiring Omegas design, really large markers.
I would buy another Luminox in a heartbeat, I'm to old to read the Navy Seal thing and the watch got alot of attention at nite. My
semi-adopted daughter has it and thinks it's way cool. LOL
Win
Without a doubt the Luminox was brighter in the early morning hours. The Luminova loses its brightness over night, but is still readable in the early morning.
I wear a blue face SMP (like above) or an
Omega GMT black face every day to work. I go from a bright sunlit office to a dimly lit
warehouse, boy does the Luminova glow. I can't go to the warehouse without admiring Omegas design, really large markers.
I would buy another Luminox in a heartbeat, I'm to old to read the Navy Seal thing and the watch got alot of attention at nite. My
semi-adopted daughter has it and thinks it's way cool. LOL
Win
Bill,
Thanks so much for an amazing amount of info. You are absolutely correct. My old Rolex is definitely marked at the bottom with "T<25". I never knew it was Tritium marked.
I tried your experiment and there is absolutely no luminescence left in the Tritium on the Rolex at all. The Luminova on the Seiko, (which I surmise it is coated with), was not brilliant but still very easy to read, even with my aging eyes and without my glasses.
I'm with copfish and Clay and the others and would sure like the hands at least on the Rolex recoated with Luminova or something because to me a watch that can't be read in low or no light is sorely lacking.
Hey Bill, I take it you're an ex "jarhead". So am I and "Semper Fi" to you also.
Hi Kelly and Win! Nice watch Kelly. I've always liked Omegas. Win, I finally met Bill Mittelman, (of Bill's Custom Cases), and in fact was at his house yesterday. We're getting together next week. Real nice guy. It's amazing, even in a town as tiny as mine, who your neighbors are.
Thanks so much for an amazing amount of info. You are absolutely correct. My old Rolex is definitely marked at the bottom with "T<25". I never knew it was Tritium marked.
I tried your experiment and there is absolutely no luminescence left in the Tritium on the Rolex at all. The Luminova on the Seiko, (which I surmise it is coated with), was not brilliant but still very easy to read, even with my aging eyes and without my glasses.
I'm with copfish and Clay and the others and would sure like the hands at least on the Rolex recoated with Luminova or something because to me a watch that can't be read in low or no light is sorely lacking.
Hey Bill, I take it you're an ex "jarhead". So am I and "Semper Fi" to you also.
Hi Kelly and Win! Nice watch Kelly. I've always liked Omegas. Win, I finally met Bill Mittelman, (of Bill's Custom Cases), and in fact was at his house yesterday. We're getting together next week. Real nice guy. It's amazing, even in a town as tiny as mine, who your neighbors are.
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C'mon Win - buy my Ed Caffrey Mastersmith Boot knife and my John Fitch Sheffield bowie and I'll that Omega will be mine!
Bronco
Moderator
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Thanks, Gene.
As a matter of fact, due to the aforementioned tritium importation concerns, I believe Rolex has just recently switched over at least a portion of their production to watches with a Luminova type luminescence on their hands.
I can easily imagine that most of the shine has probably left your Sub's tritium hands. Just based on the radioactive half life of tritium, the hands and indices on your watch are now operating at less than a quarter of their original brilliance (which, as we've already stated, wasn't very brilliant to begin with
). The next time you have your watch serviced, you may want to consider replacing the hands at a minimum, and possibly the dial as well.
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Semper Fi
-Bill
As a matter of fact, due to the aforementioned tritium importation concerns, I believe Rolex has just recently switched over at least a portion of their production to watches with a Luminova type luminescence on their hands.
I can easily imagine that most of the shine has probably left your Sub's tritium hands. Just based on the radioactive half life of tritium, the hands and indices on your watch are now operating at less than a quarter of their original brilliance (which, as we've already stated, wasn't very brilliant to begin with
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Semper Fi
-Bill
Win,
You're welcome and thank YOU! I'll tell Bill M. you said "hi". Wow! Funny where our old knives end up, huh?
Bill,
Thank you too! Your info was so informative and helpful. That's a good idea Bill about replacing the hands when serviced. The only problem is the darn old thing keeps such great time that it doesn't need any messing with. On that subject, have you checked out what a Rolex service is now? Especially a Submariner where they replace all the gaskets and the crystal? Whew! Takes your breath away! Semper Fi.
You're welcome and thank YOU! I'll tell Bill M. you said "hi". Wow! Funny where our old knives end up, huh?
Bill,
Thank you too! Your info was so informative and helpful. That's a good idea Bill about replacing the hands when serviced. The only problem is the darn old thing keeps such great time that it doesn't need any messing with. On that subject, have you checked out what a Rolex service is now? Especially a Submariner where they replace all the gaskets and the crystal? Whew! Takes your breath away! Semper Fi.