M2 versus 1095

Joined
May 4, 2003
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I just got my Ontario TAK and am ammazed by its edge holding ability. It's my first non-stainless knife and this is the first time that I've truly understood the comprimise between edge-holding and stain-resistance.

I'm thinking about trying to find a BM705 in M2 (not that I'm very likely to be successful) and I'd like to know how M2 compares to 1095 now that I have a reference point.
 
M2 is FAR superior to 1095, way ahead. The comparison really isn't fair, as plain-ish carbon steels are comparable to mid-end stainless, while Tool Steels like M2 are in a class of their own. M2 is very, very different from 1095.
 
M2 is brittle, IIRC, but it holds an edge like no tomorrow. I'll wait for Jeff Clark's response
 
In short - high alloy steel M2 was developed to cut 1095. So it is far superior. And in comparable hardeness I bet M2 less brittle then 1095.
I mean 1095 usual hardeness 57 - I bet M2 will be tougher at 57 HRC then 1095.

Major differnce - price. And knifemakers don't like M2 because it's hard to process and need higher temperature to harden.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
There is a world of difference. But I don't know why you would use M2 for a kn ife since it was developed for nhigh speed tooling where the tooling gets hot and the steel resists softening from the heat.A better choice for tool steels for knives would be O1, D2, or A2.
 
O2, A2 and D2 were not developed for knives also - knifemakers pick what steel industry already has. Check this steel comparison graph
stlcht.jpg

http://zvis.com/knives/knimgtmpl.shtml?/images/knives/stlcht.jpg
Thanks, Vassili.
 
M2 and 1095 both have around 1% carbon, but that is the end of their similarities. M2 is just loaded with goodies. It has about 4% chrome, 5.5% molybdenum, 5.5% tungsten, and 2.5% vanadium. All that extra stuff makes it harder and more wear resistant. The tungsten and the vanadium also contribute to keep the grain size small so you get a fine edge on M2.

If you are used to stainless steels you would think of M2 as reasonably tough. If you are used to 1095 (or you are building a tough field knife) you would think of M2 as overly hard and a bit brittle. A thick M2 blade in a folding knife is a reasonably rugged combination and will stay sharp for an amazing amount of time. One issue is that the fine grain structure does not intrinsically form microserrations and so M2 does not slice the way that D2 does. If you have a somewhat thick sabre ground M2 blade you might find that its cutting efficiency isn't what you expected. The solution is to finish the edge with around a 220 to 600 grit diamond or silicon carbide hone to provide some edge bite.

M2 is a challenge to sharpen since it is extremely wear resistant.
 
Hi, H2600

Just a hint: Bestknives.com has the 710M2 in stock for U$136,95...

Bought mine there, last week.

Regards,

Andre Tiba - Brazil
 
I have no problem sharpening 710HS with Spyderco Sharpmaker.
I did not notice big difference with other knives.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Jeff Clark said that M2 might be overly hard for a field knife. Is this a realistic concern? I've read about knives shipping on these forums but it always seems to be related to serious knife abuse. If you're just using a knife for slicing, cutting, and chopping is there really much danger of the blade chipping?
I've hacked away at ice with kitchen knives before I knew anything about the Rockwell scale and I don't remember any of them chipping.
With the understanding that M2 is more wear resistant than 1095, are its negative aspects really of concern to someone who doesn't plan to use a 4" pocket knife to chop down a redwood embedded with the occasional railroad spike?
 
How brittle M2 will be in use depends on how it is heat treated. If it is left at full hardness ~65-66 HRC, then you could likely chip it out very easily. However it is usually ran much softer, ~60 HRC, and assuming similar edge angles to the above mentioned 1095 blade, you would need to bash it into a rock or similar to chip it, of course at that level of hardness you get little benefit over just running 1095 anyway.

The big problem with ourdoor blades is repeated shocks, M2 was never designed to take these kinds of impacts nor extensive bending, and thus is a poor steel for those kinds of tasks, so are steels like S30V and S60V of course. For that kind of pounding and bending you are looking more towards the spring and impact steels.

As for edge retention, what dominates in most light cutting is just hardness, as all you are seeing is the edge rolling. There are some materials which create wear, thus M2 would outperform 1095 at a similar hardness, but on those materials such as gritty rope, you also get more complicated dependance because now toughness comes into play as the edge can chip and simply bend fracture instead of wearing and rolling.

The heat resistance is an interesting issue because even cutting normal materials the edges on knives can heat up well past the point were they will readily burn human skin on immediate contact. This is the same point that knifemakers warn about when grinding knives after heat treating, as various tools steels are often tempered at very low heats.

-Cliff
 
H2600 said:
Jeff Clark said that M2 might be overly hard for a field knife. Is this a realistic concern? I've read about knives shipping on these forums but it always seems to be related to serious knife abuse. If you're just using a knife for slicing, cutting, and chopping is there really much danger of the blade chipping?

With either steel, you can get chipping if the edge is too thin for what you're cutting. An angle that might be within an ideal range for skinning or filleting can be too fragile for whittling. So expect 1095 hardened to HRc 58 at 5 combined degrees combined to readily outcut M2 hardened to HRc 62 at 30 combined degrees, but expect it to seem more brittle, too. Also, if most of your cuts are slices, expect chopping to offer some damage or trouble to the edge if you've shaped it with slicing in mind.
 
Let's get back to the question that I think you were originally asking, would you be pleased with a BM705 in M2? I think that you would, providing you are prepared for the differences between 1095 and M2. You indicated that you liked 1095 for its edge holding, then you will probably be delighted with M2. If you have done any sharpening on 1095 and found that it was easy to get a razor edge on it, then you need to be prepared for a distinctly harder task with M2. Compared to high-end stainless M2 may not be dramatically hard to sharpen, but compared to a simple carbon steel like 1095 you are in for more work. It will reward you for that work. Unlike some stainless, M2 takes a very fine edge and holds it well. Since there is no possibility that you will use the 705 like an axe it should be tough enough for you.
 
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