M390 VS ZDP-189 Rope Cutting - Informal testing

Withdrawn. I should know better (better to ignore, than to feed).
 
Last edited:
Thanks unit :) That WAS nice.

Back on topic:

Anybody other than The Mastiff has had experience with the steels he speaks of? They sound interesting; not my cup of tea (from his description) but certainly worth a reintroduction into the knife world.

Price, performance, where it's been used before?
 
Here are the results on 5/8" rope, this is the 1st stage of part 2.

Knives are a NIB Endura 4 FFG in ZDP that I reprofiled to 30 inclusive and my 2nd BM 710-1 #128 in M390 that was reprofiled to 30 inclusive.

Results are not conclusive or the last word etc, they are what I got.

ZDP-189 = 580 cuts

M390 = 700 cuts

ZDP-189 after 580 cuts

Endura_4_580_cuts.JPG


Endura_4_580_cuts_2.JPG


Endura_4_580_cuts_3.JPG


M390 after 700 Cuts

BM_700_Cuts.JPG


BM_700_cuts_2.JPG


BM_700_cuts_3.JPG
 
The Mastiff said:
Jim, That's an amazing amount of work. Thanks! Fascinating stuff.
Click to expand...

Thanks. :D

Stage 2 will be another NIB Endura 4 FFG in ZDP and the BM 710-1 #231 that I used in the 1st test.

After that is done I will post some impressions of what I have been seeing in these 2 awesome steels after pushing them to the point of the edges really starting to break down. :thumbup:

I have seen some very interesting things happening sofar.
 
Ooh, that is nice. Thanks, Ankerson! We really need to get you a CATRA or something so your joints don't give out early :)
 
i've been looking for a new carry ever since i lost my zt-350 . the only thing holding me back from the 710 has been the recurve but u sure are giving me second thoughts
 
Ankerson said:
Here are the results on 5/8" rope, this is the 1st stage of part 2.

Knives are a NIB Endura 4 FFG in ZDP that I reprofiled to 30 inclusive and my 2nd BM 710-1 #128 in M390 that was reprofiled to 30 inclusive.

Results are not conclusive or the last word etc, they are what I got.

ZDP-189 = 580 cuts

M390 = 700 cuts
Click to expand...

Sheeesh, what a mess? :D How's the arm? :(

Those are really interesting results. Thanks for the hard work! :thumbup:
 
JNewell said:
Sheeesh, what a mess? :D How's the arm? :(

Those are really interesting results. Thanks for the hard work! :thumbup:
Click to expand...

I did it back on Sept 23rd so I am Ok again. :D


ar0maticdecay said:
i've been looking for a new carry ever since i lost my zt-350 . the only thing holding me back from the 710 has been the recurve but u sure are giving me second thoughts
Click to expand...

It's a mild recurve. :)
 
Ankerson said:
BM_700_cuts_3.JPG
Click to expand...

This bright line on the edge cutting area, pretty visible. To me this looks like burr - which is hard to expect after 700 cuts (however s I noted already this part probably did not touch wooden base). For sure this part of the edge is bended to the camera side and so light reflected from it making it very visible.

Can you do close up for this area on BM 710 and close up for Endura?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
This bright line on the edge cutting area, pretty visible. To me this looks like burr - which is hard to expect after 700 cuts (however s I noted already this part probably did not touch wooden base). For sure this part of the edge is bended to the camera side and so light reflected from it making it very visible.

Can you do close up for this area on BM 710 and close up for Endura?

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...

That was were it started to roll some while the Endura had started to chip out, micro chipping.

I already sharpened the knives again as this was done back on the 23rd.
 
Both knives blown up, you can see the micro chipping on the Endura and the rolling on the 710, can't really see the edge od the Endura very well at that angle, but it's torn up. Most other steels would look a lot worse than either one of these two after that many cuts.

Endura_4_580_cuts_3_cropped.jpg


BM_700_cuts_3_cropped.jpg
 
Last edited:
Ankerson said:
Both knives blown up, you can see the micro chipping on the Endura and the rolling on the 710. Most other steels would look a lot worse than either one of these two after that many cuts.
Click to expand...

This sort of gets at a problem with almost any testing. The failure modes of the edges are different (one rolls, the other chips).

Perhaps "problem" is a poor choice of words...it is what it is and after that duty cycle, I have a hard time using a word with a negative connotation like "problem" but perhaps you get the point.

Nice effort, and interesting results thus far. No doubt these steels retain an edge quite well. I submit that at this level of performance we start to question our personal preference for what sort of "damage" we want to restore (more than absolute performance of the steel). Some guys like chipping because you can still "saw" through stuff if you have to, personally I prefer rolling for some applications.
 
ar0maticdecay said:
i've been looking for a new carry ever since i lost my zt-350 . the only thing holding me back from the 710 has been the recurve but u sure are giving me second thoughts
Click to expand...
grand prairie is getting a 200 piece exclusive run of mini-grips in M390, no recurve:)
 
unit said:
This sort of gets at a problem with almost any testing. The failure modes of the edges are different (one rolls, the other chips).

Perhaps "problem" is a poor choice of words...it is what it is and after that duty cycle, I have a hard time using a word with a negative connotation like "problem" but perhaps you get the point.

Nice effort, and interesting results thus far. No doubt these steels retain an edge quite well. I submit that at this level of performance we start to question our personal preference for what sort of "damage" we want to restore (more than absolute performance of the steel). Some guys like chipping because you can still "saw" through stuff if you have to, personally I prefer rolling for some applications.
Click to expand...


Yeah I know what you mean. :)

I do know the M390 was sharper at the end than ZDP, I could tell by the noise they made going through the paper and the pressure needed to cut the rope etc.

With only 120 cuts separating these two steels it really says a lot about them both, great but different and I still feel they are at the top of the heap.

As I test more steels the real differences will become more clear about how good these two steels really are. Both are outstanding to say the least.

But then these are the results that I got and this is on rope so it's not conclusive or the last word on anything. I does tell me a few things about the steels though and how they react to extended cutting.
 
Ankerson said:
Both knives blown up, you can see the micro chipping on the Endura and the rolling on the 710, can't really see the edge od the Endura very well at that angle, but it's torn up. Most other steels would look a lot worse than either one of these two after that many cuts.

Endura_4_580_cuts_3_cropped.jpg


BM_700_cuts_3_cropped.jpg
Click to expand...

It does not look like micro chipping - on the photo I see very very tiny shine line on Endura edge - chipping would not look as a bright line. On BM it is way bigger. So M390 edge was damaged much more then ZDP-189.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
It does not look like micro chipping - on the photo I see very very tiny shine line on Endura edge - chipping would not look as a bright line. On BM it is way bigger. So M390 edge was damaged much more then ZDP-189.

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...
In general, people agree that chipping causes more damage than a rolled edge.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top