MAD DOG KNIVES-YOUR OPINION
- Thread starter skhori
- Start date
Les Robertson
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
Hi Steve,
Ok, let me first state that this is my opinon, OK....MY OPINION. So all you Mad Dogites dont flame and spam me.
I finally got to handle a ATAK2 last week. Very simple design, very simple knife. To many simple is good. The hard chrome was starting to come off just from sliding in and out of the sheath. If it will come off that easy then I dont see why you would have it done.
Second, as a hidden tang knife you have no idea how wid the tand is or how far in it goes. I had an experience with both a Gerber and a Terzuola hidden tang fighter that the handles came off in the field. This was during deployments when I was in the 101st Airbone. So I question that aspect of this knife. I think there should always be some kind of pins or pommel to hold the tang in place. The pommel shows you that the tang has gone all the way through the handle.
Having seen a lot of hidden tang knives break in the field I am always leary of that. I am not saying this knife would do that. Just an observation.
I think that at $300 to $350 this knife is a little over priced, as I stated this is a very simple knife. However, with all the hype it has received I can see why people want it. So you real world operators give us some feed back (I dont care if it can cut a 2X4 in half or cut a 1" hemp rope) During 8 years of field operations all over the world, I never once chopped a 2x4 in half, never had a 1" piece of hemp rope attack me (free hanging or not).
I want to hear about how you can sharpen it on a rock found in a creek bed, open up 55 gallon drums of diesl fuel, dig fox holes, pry the metal bands off of ammo crates, etc. Things that soldiers (and maybe even SEALS and Marine Recon guys do).
Now another .02 cents worth. My opinon, there is no better tactical fixed blade made than those by Walter Brend. I carried his knives all over the world, never once did they fail me for any reason. Yes, they are expensive, a model 2 is $600. I carried Walters knives because I understood what my life is worth and that at 0300, when its 38 degrees, there is no moon, and its raining is not the time to have a knife (or any other piece of equipmentfail you).
I saw at least one one knife from every factory break (the breaking of my Gerber is what prompted me to start buying custom knives 15 years ago),Randall's and several custom knives not live up to what they should have.
Now understand that this was from the time frame 1984 - 1992. So this testing did not include all those new "secret" steels. Just D-2, A-2, O-1, L-6, 5160, ATS-34, 440C and 154CM.
My personal favorite field steel is D-2.
Ok, now here are the rules. Dont just come on here and give me "Dude its a great knife", tell us why its a great knife. We want your personal experiences, not what you heard from some one else.
Well this should spark a good debate. By the way if I dont like what you say I will delete your message, after all I am the moderator.
Just kidding, Im a kidder...a little "moderator" humor.
Les
Ok, let me first state that this is my opinon, OK....MY OPINION. So all you Mad Dogites dont flame and spam me.
I finally got to handle a ATAK2 last week. Very simple design, very simple knife. To many simple is good. The hard chrome was starting to come off just from sliding in and out of the sheath. If it will come off that easy then I dont see why you would have it done.
Second, as a hidden tang knife you have no idea how wid the tand is or how far in it goes. I had an experience with both a Gerber and a Terzuola hidden tang fighter that the handles came off in the field. This was during deployments when I was in the 101st Airbone. So I question that aspect of this knife. I think there should always be some kind of pins or pommel to hold the tang in place. The pommel shows you that the tang has gone all the way through the handle.
Having seen a lot of hidden tang knives break in the field I am always leary of that. I am not saying this knife would do that. Just an observation.
I think that at $300 to $350 this knife is a little over priced, as I stated this is a very simple knife. However, with all the hype it has received I can see why people want it. So you real world operators give us some feed back (I dont care if it can cut a 2X4 in half or cut a 1" hemp rope) During 8 years of field operations all over the world, I never once chopped a 2x4 in half, never had a 1" piece of hemp rope attack me (free hanging or not).
I want to hear about how you can sharpen it on a rock found in a creek bed, open up 55 gallon drums of diesl fuel, dig fox holes, pry the metal bands off of ammo crates, etc. Things that soldiers (and maybe even SEALS and Marine Recon guys do).
Now another .02 cents worth. My opinon, there is no better tactical fixed blade made than those by Walter Brend. I carried his knives all over the world, never once did they fail me for any reason. Yes, they are expensive, a model 2 is $600. I carried Walters knives because I understood what my life is worth and that at 0300, when its 38 degrees, there is no moon, and its raining is not the time to have a knife (or any other piece of equipmentfail you).
I saw at least one one knife from every factory break (the breaking of my Gerber is what prompted me to start buying custom knives 15 years ago),Randall's and several custom knives not live up to what they should have.
Now understand that this was from the time frame 1984 - 1992. So this testing did not include all those new "secret" steels. Just D-2, A-2, O-1, L-6, 5160, ATS-34, 440C and 154CM.
My personal favorite field steel is D-2.
Ok, now here are the rules. Dont just come on here and give me "Dude its a great knife", tell us why its a great knife. We want your personal experiences, not what you heard from some one else.
Well this should spark a good debate. By the way if I dont like what you say I will delete your message, after all I am the moderator.
Just kidding, Im a kidder...a little "moderator" humor.
Les
Les Robertson
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
Hi Steve,
Ok, let me first state that this is my opinon, OK....MY OPINION. So all you Mad Dogites dont flame and spam me.
I finally got to handle a ATAK2 last week. Very simple design, very simple knife. To many simple is good. The hard chrome was starting to come off just from sliding in and out of the sheath. If it will come off that easy then I dont see why you would have it done.
Second, as a hidden tang knife you have no idea how wid the tand is or how far in it goes. I had an experience with both a Gerber and a Terzuola hidden tang fighter that the handles came off in the field. This was during deployments when I was in the 101st Airbone. So I question that aspect of this knife. I think there should always be some kind of pins or pommel to hold the tang in place. The pommel shows you that the tang has gone all the way through the handle.
Having seen a lot of hidden tang knives break in the field I am always leary of that. I am not saying this knife would do that. Just an observation.
I think that at $300 to $350 this knife is a little over priced, as I stated this is a very simple knife. However, with all the hype it has received I can see why people want it. So you real world operators give us some feed back (I dont care if it can cut a 2X4 in half or cut a 1" hemp rope) During 8 years of field operations all over the world, I never once chopped a 2x4 in half, never had a 1" piece of hemp rope attack me (free hanging or not).
I want to hear about how you can sharpen it on a rock found in a creek bed, open up 55 gallon drums of diesl fuel, dig fox holes, pry the metal bands off of ammo crates, etc. Things that soldiers (and maybe even SEALS and Marine Recon guys do).
Now another .02 cents worth. My opinon, there is no better tactical fixed blade made than those by Walter Brend. I carried his knives all over the world, never once did they fail me for any reason. Yes, they are expensive, a model 2 is $600. I carried Walters knives because I understood what my life is worth and that at 0300, when its 38 degrees, there is no moon, and its raining is not the time to have a knife (or any other piece of equipmentfail you).
I saw at least one one knife from every factory break (the breaking of my Gerber is what prompted me to start buying custom knives 15 years ago),Randall's and several custom knives not live up to what they should have.
Now understand that this was from the time frame 1984 - 1992. So this testing did not include all those new "secret" steels. Just D-2, A-2, O-1, L-6, 5160, ATS-34, 440C and 154CM.
My personal favorite field steel is D-2.
Ok, now here are the rules. Dont just come on here and give me "Dude its a great knife", tell us why its a great knife. We want your personal experiences, not what you heard from some one else.
Well this should spark a good debate. By the way if I dont like what you say I will delete your message, after all I am the moderator.
Just kidding, Im a kidder...a little "moderator" humor.
Les
Ok, let me first state that this is my opinon, OK....MY OPINION. So all you Mad Dogites dont flame and spam me.
I finally got to handle a ATAK2 last week. Very simple design, very simple knife. To many simple is good. The hard chrome was starting to come off just from sliding in and out of the sheath. If it will come off that easy then I dont see why you would have it done.
Second, as a hidden tang knife you have no idea how wid the tand is or how far in it goes. I had an experience with both a Gerber and a Terzuola hidden tang fighter that the handles came off in the field. This was during deployments when I was in the 101st Airbone. So I question that aspect of this knife. I think there should always be some kind of pins or pommel to hold the tang in place. The pommel shows you that the tang has gone all the way through the handle.
Having seen a lot of hidden tang knives break in the field I am always leary of that. I am not saying this knife would do that. Just an observation.
I think that at $300 to $350 this knife is a little over priced, as I stated this is a very simple knife. However, with all the hype it has received I can see why people want it. So you real world operators give us some feed back (I dont care if it can cut a 2X4 in half or cut a 1" hemp rope) During 8 years of field operations all over the world, I never once chopped a 2x4 in half, never had a 1" piece of hemp rope attack me (free hanging or not).
I want to hear about how you can sharpen it on a rock found in a creek bed, open up 55 gallon drums of diesl fuel, dig fox holes, pry the metal bands off of ammo crates, etc. Things that soldiers (and maybe even SEALS and Marine Recon guys do).
Now another .02 cents worth. My opinon, there is no better tactical fixed blade made than those by Walter Brend. I carried his knives all over the world, never once did they fail me for any reason. Yes, they are expensive, a model 2 is $600. I carried Walters knives because I understood what my life is worth and that at 0300, when its 38 degrees, there is no moon, and its raining is not the time to have a knife (or any other piece of equipmentfail you).
I saw at least one one knife from every factory break (the breaking of my Gerber is what prompted me to start buying custom knives 15 years ago),Randall's and several custom knives not live up to what they should have.
Now understand that this was from the time frame 1984 - 1992. So this testing did not include all those new "secret" steels. Just D-2, A-2, O-1, L-6, 5160, ATS-34, 440C and 154CM.
My personal favorite field steel is D-2.
Ok, now here are the rules. Dont just come on here and give me "Dude its a great knife", tell us why its a great knife. We want your personal experiences, not what you heard from some one else.
Well this should spark a good debate. By the way if I dont like what you say I will delete your message, after all I am the moderator.
Just kidding, Im a kidder...a little "moderator" humor.
Les
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 286
This is the debate I have been waiting for!
I really want to know.
I suspect the hard chroming, if it isnt part of the blade it's going to come off.
The hiden tang...known for makign handles weak.
I also have seen what people say.
Are they that great?
Real people. Real field experience.
Lets hear it!
I really want to know.
I suspect the hard chroming, if it isnt part of the blade it's going to come off.
The hiden tang...known for makign handles weak.
I also have seen what people say.
Are they that great?
Real people. Real field experience.
Lets hear it!
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,842
Sometimes "simple" isn't as simple as it first appears. On another forum, there's a guy asking if knives feel "alive", because he felt a Loveless hunter for the first time and it felt great. That's a pretty simple knife, and I'm sure this guy has felt plenty of Loveless-STYLE hunters before. How come it takes Loveless himself to make the design sing? Because in his simple design, he makes subtle decisions that really make the design work.
I admire Les's knife acumen -- and his knife design acumen -- immensely. I also admire Mad Dog's, though I take pains to make it clear I'm not a sycophant. Though I wonder if the fact that I haven't hard-tested an ATAK yet is the only thing keeping me from being more supportive.
Let's look at the design. Start with the handle. It is simple. But it's got curves where the curves need to be, and it really locks in your hand, without resorting to rough textures. One thing all Mad Dog reviewers report -- I chopped/sliced/whatever with the thing for hours and it never became uncomfortable or slippery. Subtle decisions make the design work. The guard is the right length. G-10 is tougher than micarta, and much more resistant to solvents -- and it's tough enough to use the butt to pound nails, etc.
The blade is simple, too. Old standby O-1 steel, meticulously heat-treated to outstanding results according to all testers, both edge-holding-wise (where the feats seem almost unbelieveable) and toughness-wise. The choice of belly-size and point sharpness are excellent. I know you're a big fan of recurved-blades Les, well mad Dog's "positive included angle" gives a lot of recurved-type performance without the field-sharpenability problems that recurved blades have. How many people here have really tried field-sharpening a recurved blade? Hell, most people have trouble sharpening recurved blades at home, much less in the field...
The choice of a full flat is likewise excellent. The flat grind in my experience gives way better performance for cutting and chopping than the sabre grind, but with nearly the same overall strength. It takes way more work to fully flat grind a knife, but if you have a no-compromise approach to cutting and chopping performance, this it the way to go.
I love your ideas on getting feedback on field testing the Mad Dog hard. Unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity to I'll leave that to others. I will point out, though, that your tests like "pry the metal bands off of ammo crates" are *way* more applicable to soldiers than they are to civilians, which most of us are. Though I think the mad Dog will handle your proposed tests with flying colors, the fact is what most of us use our knives for is by chopping 2x4s or other wood, or cutting rope, etc. -- exactly what you're not interested in, given your military background. These tests are VERY relevant for the rest of us, though! I haven't had to pry bands off any ammo crates, nor pierce any steel drums recently
I think your tests are great, but let's not forget real-world civilian tests too.
The standard story on the hard chrome is that the shininess you're seeing from sheath withdrawal is the hard chrome polishing up, not wearing off. I can't vouch for the veracity of this story, however.
Anyway, my point is, Mad Dog has made some very good (if sometimes subtle) decisions on this knife. I too anxiously await the responses of those who have really tested this knife hard.
Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
I admire Les's knife acumen -- and his knife design acumen -- immensely. I also admire Mad Dog's, though I take pains to make it clear I'm not a sycophant. Though I wonder if the fact that I haven't hard-tested an ATAK yet is the only thing keeping me from being more supportive.
Let's look at the design. Start with the handle. It is simple. But it's got curves where the curves need to be, and it really locks in your hand, without resorting to rough textures. One thing all Mad Dog reviewers report -- I chopped/sliced/whatever with the thing for hours and it never became uncomfortable or slippery. Subtle decisions make the design work. The guard is the right length. G-10 is tougher than micarta, and much more resistant to solvents -- and it's tough enough to use the butt to pound nails, etc.
The blade is simple, too. Old standby O-1 steel, meticulously heat-treated to outstanding results according to all testers, both edge-holding-wise (where the feats seem almost unbelieveable) and toughness-wise. The choice of belly-size and point sharpness are excellent. I know you're a big fan of recurved-blades Les, well mad Dog's "positive included angle" gives a lot of recurved-type performance without the field-sharpenability problems that recurved blades have. How many people here have really tried field-sharpening a recurved blade? Hell, most people have trouble sharpening recurved blades at home, much less in the field...
The choice of a full flat is likewise excellent. The flat grind in my experience gives way better performance for cutting and chopping than the sabre grind, but with nearly the same overall strength. It takes way more work to fully flat grind a knife, but if you have a no-compromise approach to cutting and chopping performance, this it the way to go.
I love your ideas on getting feedback on field testing the Mad Dog hard. Unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity to I'll leave that to others. I will point out, though, that your tests like "pry the metal bands off of ammo crates" are *way* more applicable to soldiers than they are to civilians, which most of us are. Though I think the mad Dog will handle your proposed tests with flying colors, the fact is what most of us use our knives for is by chopping 2x4s or other wood, or cutting rope, etc. -- exactly what you're not interested in, given your military background. These tests are VERY relevant for the rest of us, though! I haven't had to pry bands off any ammo crates, nor pierce any steel drums recently
The standard story on the hard chrome is that the shininess you're seeing from sheath withdrawal is the hard chrome polishing up, not wearing off. I can't vouch for the veracity of this story, however.
Anyway, my point is, Mad Dog has made some very good (if sometimes subtle) decisions on this knife. I too anxiously await the responses of those who have really tested this knife hard.
Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
- Joined
- Oct 18, 1998
- Messages
- 31
Hey, dude! It's a great knife, all right ...?
Uh .. sorry .. couldn't help myself.
I'm a big proponent of Mad Dog stuff; in fact, I guess you can say I've just recently joined the Cult of the Dog ... I've had an ATAK II and a Wombat for about 18 months, a Taiho for about 6 months and I just got a Pygmy ATAK II and have an Operator currently on order. So, yeah, I'll admit it, I'm eat up with'em. They ain't the only knife in the world, but they are my current favorite.
A little background before I give "my opinion." My knife experience is probably pretty typical; started out with an old Air Force Survival Knife and fake Italian (Taiwan, actually) lockblades when I was MUCH younger .. graduated to Gerber Mark I and II and Folding Sportsman II ... on through Benchmark fixed blades, Pacific Cutlery, Kabars, Pumas, SOGs and on up to Cold Steels and Morseths and, of course, the inevitable Randalls.
Sure, most of my stuff sits in a hermetically sealed case in my underground operations center (just kiddin') and only gets used occasionally -- after all, how many knives can you carry and use at one time? The best of the collection has had a pretty good "run around the park," so to speak, either while camping, hunting, street carry or military deployment in some fairly austere conditions.
For the record, in my role as a military photographer and videographer, I haven't had to use my knives to open fifty gallon steel drums or sharpen them on rocks -- we used a wrench to open the cap on the drum and I've carried a stone or diamond sharpener with my TA 50 for the past ten or so years.
I HAVE, however, used my blades to cut metal bands, chisel notches in 6 by 6 beams to build bunkers in the desert during the Gulf War and cut up orange tarps to mark our vehicles so we wouldn't get shot at ... and I've slashed open hundreds of sandbags when we bugged out of Norther Arabia (see if THAT doesn't test your edge-holding ability). And then there's the hog we butchered in Guatemala for the village feast, the marijuana I've cut in eastern Kentucky, the brush I've cut to get to the marijuana ... etc., etc., .....
My favorite all around blades up until recently have been Cold Steel's stuff .. the SRK, Recon Tanto, and an old Master Tanto, which is the one that did most of the work in the Persian Gulf. A Randall #1 fighter has been with me through a lot, gutting my first deer 20 years ago, doing kitchen duties in camp, clearing brush and keeping me company in the field with my unit.
Anyway ... so much for my pedigree.
I came to the cult of the Dog last year after some reading up on custom blades -- I was in the market for a new Randall, but I wanted to see what else was worth considering -- in the usual mags and on the net. Then I stumbled onto Hilton Yam's old Ground Zero website and rediscovered the Mad Dog ATAK. Fascinated by what I saw, I did what any red-blooded knife enthusiast would do; I ordered both a Randall and a Dog.
To the meat of the matter.
A Dog is deceptively simple in appearance, but the longer you own it, and the more you use it, the more you appreciate the sophistication of its design. The flat ground ATAK II, for instance, has influences of the traditional Bowie mixed in the kukri, complemented with an ergonomic handle that it second to none; the single finger groove Randall comes close, but I have to tip the scales in favor of the durability of the Dog. The construction is tight, "industrial strength" and of space age materials. Don't just the knife by appearance alone; the hidden tang is bonded in a way far superior to what we've come to expect, and the handle material is literally bulletproof, suitable for beating and banging and hammering like no other blade I've come across.
The reference to the hard chrome finish wearing off is interesting. I suspect what you see is a bead-blasted blade -- which is dull in finish -- developing polished marks each time the knife is drawn in and out of the sheath. My own knives have similar marks, which have had no effect whatsoever on the corrosion resistance of the blade.
My newest Dog, a Pygmy ATAK II, has a slightly polished hard chrome finish, which so far resists abrasive marring or polishing.
As an aside, I had for about ten years a Heckler and Koch P-7 pistol that sported a hard chrome "Metalife" finish .. satin polished ... it endured a good many nicks and bangs and bumps and drops and never peeled or failed in any way.
Regarding chopping 2x4s .. I'm like most people, too .. I don't give a care about doing something like that in real life, but the way I look at it, it's a test that simulates the kind of use/abuse you might put your knife through in extreme circumstances. I have to admit, I've played with all of my Dog blades in a similar fashion, including jamming my Pygmy ATAK into treated deckwood and twisting the tip around and digging into the wood; the danged thing still shaved hair afterward. No, I haven't done pullups with my ATAK jammed between wooden beams, but I have chopped a couple of 2x4s, cut down a couple of small trees and slashed up my old plastic garbage can ... I'm pretty satisfied that the Dogs live up to the claims ....
... and THAT'S what I'm after.
Yeah, the Mad Dog knives aren't as pretty as the Randalls and they certainly aren't cheap. I can, however, afford a Dog and feel secure in using/abusing it a lot easier than a $600 Walter Brend .. (sorry, couldn't help saying that ...)
And, yeah, Mr. McClung might even ruffle a few feathers with his in-your-face manner, but so what? I'm not carrying him around in my belt, just the product of his in-your-face style. He and I might not see eye to eye on Cold Steel's contributions to the cutlery world or whether you should pick paper or plastic at the grocery store. That's all right; I'm not paying for anything more than his expertise in putting together one of the toughest knives you can buy, and that's all I'm asking for.
That's my story .. and I'm stickin' to it..!
[This message has been edited by DW Altom (edited 10-26-98).]
Uh .. sorry .. couldn't help myself.
I'm a big proponent of Mad Dog stuff; in fact, I guess you can say I've just recently joined the Cult of the Dog ... I've had an ATAK II and a Wombat for about 18 months, a Taiho for about 6 months and I just got a Pygmy ATAK II and have an Operator currently on order. So, yeah, I'll admit it, I'm eat up with'em. They ain't the only knife in the world, but they are my current favorite.
A little background before I give "my opinion." My knife experience is probably pretty typical; started out with an old Air Force Survival Knife and fake Italian (Taiwan, actually) lockblades when I was MUCH younger .. graduated to Gerber Mark I and II and Folding Sportsman II ... on through Benchmark fixed blades, Pacific Cutlery, Kabars, Pumas, SOGs and on up to Cold Steels and Morseths and, of course, the inevitable Randalls.
Sure, most of my stuff sits in a hermetically sealed case in my underground operations center (just kiddin') and only gets used occasionally -- after all, how many knives can you carry and use at one time? The best of the collection has had a pretty good "run around the park," so to speak, either while camping, hunting, street carry or military deployment in some fairly austere conditions.
For the record, in my role as a military photographer and videographer, I haven't had to use my knives to open fifty gallon steel drums or sharpen them on rocks -- we used a wrench to open the cap on the drum and I've carried a stone or diamond sharpener with my TA 50 for the past ten or so years.
I HAVE, however, used my blades to cut metal bands, chisel notches in 6 by 6 beams to build bunkers in the desert during the Gulf War and cut up orange tarps to mark our vehicles so we wouldn't get shot at ... and I've slashed open hundreds of sandbags when we bugged out of Norther Arabia (see if THAT doesn't test your edge-holding ability). And then there's the hog we butchered in Guatemala for the village feast, the marijuana I've cut in eastern Kentucky, the brush I've cut to get to the marijuana ... etc., etc., .....
My favorite all around blades up until recently have been Cold Steel's stuff .. the SRK, Recon Tanto, and an old Master Tanto, which is the one that did most of the work in the Persian Gulf. A Randall #1 fighter has been with me through a lot, gutting my first deer 20 years ago, doing kitchen duties in camp, clearing brush and keeping me company in the field with my unit.
Anyway ... so much for my pedigree.
I came to the cult of the Dog last year after some reading up on custom blades -- I was in the market for a new Randall, but I wanted to see what else was worth considering -- in the usual mags and on the net. Then I stumbled onto Hilton Yam's old Ground Zero website and rediscovered the Mad Dog ATAK. Fascinated by what I saw, I did what any red-blooded knife enthusiast would do; I ordered both a Randall and a Dog.
To the meat of the matter.
A Dog is deceptively simple in appearance, but the longer you own it, and the more you use it, the more you appreciate the sophistication of its design. The flat ground ATAK II, for instance, has influences of the traditional Bowie mixed in the kukri, complemented with an ergonomic handle that it second to none; the single finger groove Randall comes close, but I have to tip the scales in favor of the durability of the Dog. The construction is tight, "industrial strength" and of space age materials. Don't just the knife by appearance alone; the hidden tang is bonded in a way far superior to what we've come to expect, and the handle material is literally bulletproof, suitable for beating and banging and hammering like no other blade I've come across.
The reference to the hard chrome finish wearing off is interesting. I suspect what you see is a bead-blasted blade -- which is dull in finish -- developing polished marks each time the knife is drawn in and out of the sheath. My own knives have similar marks, which have had no effect whatsoever on the corrosion resistance of the blade.
My newest Dog, a Pygmy ATAK II, has a slightly polished hard chrome finish, which so far resists abrasive marring or polishing.
As an aside, I had for about ten years a Heckler and Koch P-7 pistol that sported a hard chrome "Metalife" finish .. satin polished ... it endured a good many nicks and bangs and bumps and drops and never peeled or failed in any way.
Regarding chopping 2x4s .. I'm like most people, too .. I don't give a care about doing something like that in real life, but the way I look at it, it's a test that simulates the kind of use/abuse you might put your knife through in extreme circumstances. I have to admit, I've played with all of my Dog blades in a similar fashion, including jamming my Pygmy ATAK into treated deckwood and twisting the tip around and digging into the wood; the danged thing still shaved hair afterward. No, I haven't done pullups with my ATAK jammed between wooden beams, but I have chopped a couple of 2x4s, cut down a couple of small trees and slashed up my old plastic garbage can ... I'm pretty satisfied that the Dogs live up to the claims ....
... and THAT'S what I'm after.
Yeah, the Mad Dog knives aren't as pretty as the Randalls and they certainly aren't cheap. I can, however, afford a Dog and feel secure in using/abusing it a lot easier than a $600 Walter Brend .. (sorry, couldn't help saying that ...)
And, yeah, Mr. McClung might even ruffle a few feathers with his in-your-face manner, but so what? I'm not carrying him around in my belt, just the product of his in-your-face style. He and I might not see eye to eye on Cold Steel's contributions to the cutlery world or whether you should pick paper or plastic at the grocery store. That's all right; I'm not paying for anything more than his expertise in putting together one of the toughest knives you can buy, and that's all I'm asking for.
That's my story .. and I'm stickin' to it..!
[This message has been edited by DW Altom (edited 10-26-98).]
I think that there are many fine knives out there, but Mad Dog knives are some of my favorites. Why? Well, basically, because every time I see a knife and then start thinking about how I would like to improve it to make it better, it ends up just like a Mad Dog design!
If I look at, say, any generic sabre ground stainless steel knife (like a Randall design), I usually think to myself "that would be a really cool knife if it had a flat grind, and it were made out of tool steel coated with a rust inhibitor." Then I think "oh yeah, and then if it were differentially tempered so that it was strong yet held a great edge, and a good dropped guard, but no top guard so that I could lay my thumb up there, and a good index groove with a comfy, curved handle......". Basically, I just described a Mad Dog, and I do that with about every knife I see.
I was doing this before I saw Mad Dogs, and that is why I was so shocked when I saw his knives first hand. Kevin McClung had hit the nail on the head, and designed just the knife I would have if I had made my own!
I have not done pullups on my ATAK, so I don't know if it is really as laterally tough as he claims, but I do know that he is sure enough of it that he will buy me a new one if I do break it, so he must be pretty confident of the knife's abilities. I would like to know how far the tang goes though, because I have always wondered.
The ATAK I have cuts outstandingly! The flat grind takes this strong knife down to an *extremely* thin edge. I mean, the very edge is thinner than my AFCK's, but the knife still remains super strong from the spine. The grind is a perfect balance between cutting power and strength. My ATAK outcuts all my other knives, including even small folders. The only exception is my Sebenza, and it is on par with that, because they both have the same initial edge geometry - very thin at the edge. My ATAK slices up chicken in the kitchen as well as a thin Ginsu flimsy kitchen blade, but has the strength of a combat grade knife...what more could you want out of a blade?
This knife also holds an amazing edge. I don't need to go into a long spiel about it, but just trust me, it holds an outstanding edge; you and most all of your other knives will wear out long before it does.
Joe did a great job mentioning the perfect belly and forward cant (gotta have it!), so I won't go into that detail.
The handle is perfect in it's simplicity. It is comfy to use for extended use and very efficient for both utility and fighting. The index 'groove' allows the knife to pivot over the index finger for chopping motions, and the knife whips authoritatively when you use the other fingers to snap it forward, letting the knife tilt over your index finger like a fulcrum. You can easily get that clapping sound of the handle hitting your palm when you pivot the knife around your index and close your grip quickly causing the blade to whip forward. This is an extremely important attribute for chopping and agility. This also directly translates to the motion of the snap cut for defensive uses. I can snap cut with this knife very well, just like I can chop with it very well.
The guard will not let your hand slip forward, period, and is very comfortable for extended use, just like the rest of the smooth, form-fitting handle. What more do you need? 'Nuff said on that.
Okay, that is a rundown of the main reasons why I like my ATAK and other Mad Dogs, while keeping this as a *short* review of the highlights. If you want to see facts like how long you can immerse it in seawater, how much voltage you can cut with it, what it takes to destroy the handle, etc etc, then I can't help you because I have not found anything to destroy this knife yet. But, from a human, user point of view, the above are some of the reasons why I love my ATAK, and why I think that Kevin McClung has hit the nail on the head with his designs. All of the attributes above translate to both utility and fighting. Particularly because of the excellent handle design, Kevin's knives inspire the utmost of confidence in me for use of the most dire of needs (mortal combat). But, the other uses are more practical, so I stick with the utility side as the most important aspect.
There just aren't many things that you can do to improve his knives for the serious user/abuser. Sure, they are only pretty in a "Glock" sort of way, but I think that functionality is beautiful. They are not the *only* good knife in the world, I like other knives as well and I don't consider myself a Cult member (try to find any posts that I have written in praise of his work prior to this. There aren't many). But, for a real "Combat" knife; serious outdoor knife; serious "life-on-the-line" knife; and serious hard-use knife, I would say that they are top notch.
I have never been in extended combat like Mr. Robertson, and I would be as happy as everyone else to speak to people that have carried Mad Dog knives in extended combat to say how they held up against the others, but for now all we really have are his tests and proofs, of which many people on these forums have seen first hand.
In short, I can't think of anything that I would change on my ATAK, whereas most every other knife I look at, I think of how I would improve it, and guess what, it ends up looking like a Mad Dog!
JMHO,
thaddeus
Ps- I have seen a lot of Mad Dogs with the sheath wear, but never seen one rust yet. My ATAK is all scratched up because it has been abused thoroughly. It _appears_ as if the coating has worn off, but I have had no problems with rust even though I live right on the beach, so obviously the coating is holding strong even after many years of hard abuse (Yes, my ATAK is pretty old).
If I look at, say, any generic sabre ground stainless steel knife (like a Randall design), I usually think to myself "that would be a really cool knife if it had a flat grind, and it were made out of tool steel coated with a rust inhibitor." Then I think "oh yeah, and then if it were differentially tempered so that it was strong yet held a great edge, and a good dropped guard, but no top guard so that I could lay my thumb up there, and a good index groove with a comfy, curved handle......". Basically, I just described a Mad Dog, and I do that with about every knife I see.
I was doing this before I saw Mad Dogs, and that is why I was so shocked when I saw his knives first hand. Kevin McClung had hit the nail on the head, and designed just the knife I would have if I had made my own!
I have not done pullups on my ATAK, so I don't know if it is really as laterally tough as he claims, but I do know that he is sure enough of it that he will buy me a new one if I do break it, so he must be pretty confident of the knife's abilities. I would like to know how far the tang goes though, because I have always wondered.
The ATAK I have cuts outstandingly! The flat grind takes this strong knife down to an *extremely* thin edge. I mean, the very edge is thinner than my AFCK's, but the knife still remains super strong from the spine. The grind is a perfect balance between cutting power and strength. My ATAK outcuts all my other knives, including even small folders. The only exception is my Sebenza, and it is on par with that, because they both have the same initial edge geometry - very thin at the edge. My ATAK slices up chicken in the kitchen as well as a thin Ginsu flimsy kitchen blade, but has the strength of a combat grade knife...what more could you want out of a blade?
This knife also holds an amazing edge. I don't need to go into a long spiel about it, but just trust me, it holds an outstanding edge; you and most all of your other knives will wear out long before it does.
Joe did a great job mentioning the perfect belly and forward cant (gotta have it!), so I won't go into that detail.
The handle is perfect in it's simplicity. It is comfy to use for extended use and very efficient for both utility and fighting. The index 'groove' allows the knife to pivot over the index finger for chopping motions, and the knife whips authoritatively when you use the other fingers to snap it forward, letting the knife tilt over your index finger like a fulcrum. You can easily get that clapping sound of the handle hitting your palm when you pivot the knife around your index and close your grip quickly causing the blade to whip forward. This is an extremely important attribute for chopping and agility. This also directly translates to the motion of the snap cut for defensive uses. I can snap cut with this knife very well, just like I can chop with it very well.
The guard will not let your hand slip forward, period, and is very comfortable for extended use, just like the rest of the smooth, form-fitting handle. What more do you need? 'Nuff said on that.
Okay, that is a rundown of the main reasons why I like my ATAK and other Mad Dogs, while keeping this as a *short* review of the highlights. If you want to see facts like how long you can immerse it in seawater, how much voltage you can cut with it, what it takes to destroy the handle, etc etc, then I can't help you because I have not found anything to destroy this knife yet. But, from a human, user point of view, the above are some of the reasons why I love my ATAK, and why I think that Kevin McClung has hit the nail on the head with his designs. All of the attributes above translate to both utility and fighting. Particularly because of the excellent handle design, Kevin's knives inspire the utmost of confidence in me for use of the most dire of needs (mortal combat). But, the other uses are more practical, so I stick with the utility side as the most important aspect.
There just aren't many things that you can do to improve his knives for the serious user/abuser. Sure, they are only pretty in a "Glock" sort of way, but I think that functionality is beautiful. They are not the *only* good knife in the world, I like other knives as well and I don't consider myself a Cult member (try to find any posts that I have written in praise of his work prior to this. There aren't many). But, for a real "Combat" knife; serious outdoor knife; serious "life-on-the-line" knife; and serious hard-use knife, I would say that they are top notch.
I have never been in extended combat like Mr. Robertson, and I would be as happy as everyone else to speak to people that have carried Mad Dog knives in extended combat to say how they held up against the others, but for now all we really have are his tests and proofs, of which many people on these forums have seen first hand.
In short, I can't think of anything that I would change on my ATAK, whereas most every other knife I look at, I think of how I would improve it, and guess what, it ends up looking like a Mad Dog!
JMHO,
thaddeus
Ps- I have seen a lot of Mad Dogs with the sheath wear, but never seen one rust yet. My ATAK is all scratched up because it has been abused thoroughly. It _appears_ as if the coating has worn off, but I have had no problems with rust even though I live right on the beach, so obviously the coating is holding strong even after many years of hard abuse (Yes, my ATAK is pretty old).
Oops, DW, we posted at the same time. Hope I didn't repeat what you said too much.
One thing I forgot to mention are Kevin McClung's *superior* sheaths. The sheath is such a pertinent part of a fixed blade knife; I will pass up a nice FB knife if the sheath is not satisfactory.
I have to get back to studying, so I will spare the details for someone else, but basically Kevin's sheaths are supreme in every regard.
thaddeus
One thing I forgot to mention are Kevin McClung's *superior* sheaths. The sheath is such a pertinent part of a fixed blade knife; I will pass up a nice FB knife if the sheath is not satisfactory.
I have to get back to studying, so I will spare the details for someone else, but basically Kevin's sheaths are supreme in every regard.
thaddeus
Regarding the size/dimensions of the tang: I have asked (on the "other" forum) and have not received any responses. Is it a "stick" type tang? How wide/long? I've noticed that the thong hole doesn't go thru any metal, so I suppose the tang either stops short of the hole or at some point below it. I also asked of there were any hidden pins or bolts holding the handle to the tang. A question was also raised that the handle is actually made up of 3 parts, the guard and 2 handle halves. I don't recall seeing any commentary on this either. Needless to say, I have to agree with the above. I've chopped 2x4's with my ATAK and it it still shaves hair. I have also cut steel bands off of wooden shipping crates and I have no doubt that it will penetrate 50 Gal drums with ease.
JMHO,
SH
JMHO,
SH
Les Robertson
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
Hello Thread.
I must say all the posters are so well behaved on this forum. I appreciate all the comments, I for one have learned more in the last 24 hours on MD knives than I did reading the posts in other forums.
I think we have covered the ATAK well, how about some of Kevin's other model's. The Rat series for one. As I stated earlier, the ATAK is the only one I have seen. So I for one would like commentary on some of the other MD designs.
Les
I must say all the posters are so well behaved on this forum. I appreciate all the comments, I for one have learned more in the last 24 hours on MD knives than I did reading the posts in other forums.
I think we have covered the ATAK well, how about some of Kevin's other model's. The Rat series for one. As I stated earlier, the ATAK is the only one I have seen. So I for one would like commentary on some of the other MD designs.
Les
first of all, I own two maddog knives. The ATAK2 and Mirage-X hunter. And when I decided to purchase them, I see them as factory knives, surperior factory knives, but not customs.
Kevin has made many good decisions at blade geometry, and chosen the right, time proven blade material. So I won't doubt it's toughness and cutting power.... but am I right that all the ABS smiths' blades has to pass similar tests?
For the handle, I've taken radiograph on my knives. The tang extended a little over half of the handle and has a hole on it. So I would like to think that it is the hole and some kind of adhesive that hold the tang in the handle. Then the durability of the handle really depends on the impact and flexual strenght of the composite handle. I haven't abuse it too much so I can't commment on this.
Price..... is a personal thing I think.... for me, I got the ATAK2 at $285, I think it's ok for a superior factory knife. For the Mirage-X, it's unique tough- ceramic knife, so I am willing to paid $375 for it.
Will I get a panther? definitely no. At >$800, I rather get a even more expensive custom. A knife that has more detail.... besides the performance. A J.D. Smith's forged D2 differentially heat treated, full flat grind distal tapered bowie is much more attractive! (in November issue of the blade magazine)
Just my humble opinion.
Joe Leung
Kevin has made many good decisions at blade geometry, and chosen the right, time proven blade material. So I won't doubt it's toughness and cutting power.... but am I right that all the ABS smiths' blades has to pass similar tests?
For the handle, I've taken radiograph on my knives. The tang extended a little over half of the handle and has a hole on it. So I would like to think that it is the hole and some kind of adhesive that hold the tang in the handle. Then the durability of the handle really depends on the impact and flexual strenght of the composite handle. I haven't abuse it too much so I can't commment on this.
Price..... is a personal thing I think.... for me, I got the ATAK2 at $285, I think it's ok for a superior factory knife. For the Mirage-X, it's unique tough- ceramic knife, so I am willing to paid $375 for it.
Will I get a panther? definitely no. At >$800, I rather get a even more expensive custom. A knife that has more detail.... besides the performance. A J.D. Smith's forged D2 differentially heat treated, full flat grind distal tapered bowie is much more attractive! (in November issue of the blade magazine)
Just my humble opinion.
Joe Leung
Basically all of these posts testify that the information Kevin provides concerning his knives and the test results of his knives compared to others is true. I also had heard several stories before I purchased my first Mad Dog about the outstanding performance of his knives. When someone can show me documented proof that other knives OUTPERFORM Mad Dog's I will leave the Cult.
I think I get little mixed up here.....
When I first purchase a knife,which is only a few years ago, I kept searching for "the perfect knife". But the more I use knives, and the more I collect, I was deviated.
My thoughts about Maddog knives is that it is a high performance knife. Kevin has chosen to have a thick spine on his knives so that you can do pull-up with it, but other smiths maynot think that it's necessory, so that they make their knives thinner at spine. I remembered that I read one of Ed Fowler's article which described a typical 90 degree flex test, and still the harded cutting edge doesn't chip.
I mean, many bladesmiths make superior blades. And they are not enemies to each other.... neither are we collector and knife users. I always think the knife-world is a great family and I see great people here.
Do I like a maddog? yes...I just don't buy an expensive one... Randal? That's romantic history to me .... Busse? I think I will like it when my blade arrive......
Afterall, I think I will happily let YOUR knives out-cut mine.... there are just too many things to go after.
I am just wondering if "wootz" steel will out-cut other steel but am too hesitate to test it with my "wootz" blade Terzuola Talon.
please excuse me of my poor english.
Yours,
Joe Leung
When I first purchase a knife,which is only a few years ago, I kept searching for "the perfect knife". But the more I use knives, and the more I collect, I was deviated.
My thoughts about Maddog knives is that it is a high performance knife. Kevin has chosen to have a thick spine on his knives so that you can do pull-up with it, but other smiths maynot think that it's necessory, so that they make their knives thinner at spine. I remembered that I read one of Ed Fowler's article which described a typical 90 degree flex test, and still the harded cutting edge doesn't chip.
I mean, many bladesmiths make superior blades. And they are not enemies to each other.... neither are we collector and knife users. I always think the knife-world is a great family and I see great people here.
Do I like a maddog? yes...I just don't buy an expensive one... Randal? That's romantic history to me .... Busse? I think I will like it when my blade arrive......
Afterall, I think I will happily let YOUR knives out-cut mine.... there are just too many things to go after.
I am just wondering if "wootz" steel will out-cut other steel but am too hesitate to test it with my "wootz" blade Terzuola Talon.
please excuse me of my poor english.
Yours,
Joe Leung
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,842
Les,
You asked about Kevin's Rat Series in your reply. Very few of us have handled one, so it's difficult to reply. However, I do know that McClung uses some basic design principles over and over. There's a kind of standard ergonomic handle, the use of O-1 heat-treated carefully, the use of the flat grind, the use of a "positive included angle". All these concepts are proven winners, and the Rat series has all of them.
Another good choice is the long, straight clip blade. For more fighter-y blades, he throws a false edge on top; utility blades get no false edge. You can get 1/8" or 3/16" thickness depending on your use.
In short, since the Rat series uses some very proven design decisions from the ATAK series, I expect it to be a great knife off the bat. Add in the long clip and the other options. Just speculation, of course, I haven't handled one yet. If you think Kevin's design methodology is basically flawed, you'd expect the Rats to be flawed. If you think his methodology is sound, you'd expect the Rats to be sound. I think it will all add up to an astoundingly-good 4.5" knife.
Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
You asked about Kevin's Rat Series in your reply. Very few of us have handled one, so it's difficult to reply. However, I do know that McClung uses some basic design principles over and over. There's a kind of standard ergonomic handle, the use of O-1 heat-treated carefully, the use of the flat grind, the use of a "positive included angle". All these concepts are proven winners, and the Rat series has all of them.
Another good choice is the long, straight clip blade. For more fighter-y blades, he throws a false edge on top; utility blades get no false edge. You can get 1/8" or 3/16" thickness depending on your use.
In short, since the Rat series uses some very proven design decisions from the ATAK series, I expect it to be a great knife off the bat. Add in the long clip and the other options. Just speculation, of course, I haven't handled one yet. If you think Kevin's design methodology is basically flawed, you'd expect the Rats to be flawed. If you think his methodology is sound, you'd expect the Rats to be sound. I think it will all add up to an astoundingly-good 4.5" knife.
Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
Hey just had to add my two bits.
One thing, MD has a tremendous following, one because of KM personality and two, his knives are as billed. I don't have a fixed blade that performs better at the task for which the ATAK series was designed for.
Now I have, abused it. Meaning that I have opened lots of 5.56/7.62 wooden crates, dug numerous holes, chopped through an aluminum antenna, and the like. The Kalguard is gone, but there is NO rust on the blade, with the exception of the edge, that is easily removed with a diamond stone when sharpened. My tip is barely deformed. I have a pic of this if any one would like to link it. I don't have time to keep a page up.
Bottom line, good knives, moderate to high price. Performance par none.
One thing, MD has a tremendous following, one because of KM personality and two, his knives are as billed. I don't have a fixed blade that performs better at the task for which the ATAK series was designed for.
Now I have, abused it. Meaning that I have opened lots of 5.56/7.62 wooden crates, dug numerous holes, chopped through an aluminum antenna, and the like. The Kalguard is gone, but there is NO rust on the blade, with the exception of the edge, that is easily removed with a diamond stone when sharpened. My tip is barely deformed. I have a pic of this if any one would like to link it. I don't have time to keep a page up.
Bottom line, good knives, moderate to high price. Performance par none.
I recently acquired a pygmy ATAK II after growing restless in the queue for a Rat family blade. I've lauded the ergonomics of the handle and the built-like-a-tank quality of the knife. Now that I've lived with it for a bit I'm providing another snapshot in my evaluation process.
---------------------------------------------
The luster and novelty of the new blade has now worn off. I remain quite annoyed that the blade arrived quite dull. Kevin has said that it happens periodically and that all one needs do is to return it to him for an edge but the hassle factor was one I chose not to deal with.
Not having been able to locate suitable substitutes for manhole covers to attack and with a semblence of return of my sanity, I set about some more realistic means of evaluation. The kitchen...ah yes, the
kitchen. Well here I'm afraid the pATAK II proved lacking. The big finger guard and the thick blade made it useful for only chopping things like carrots with it's smallish front belly. It simply lacks the finesse to function well. In the garage, lots of cardboard and a small length of yellow
nylon line were turned into scrap easily. The heft of the knife dramatically aids in these chores and frankly the edge retention outlasted an excellent D2 hunter by Melvin Dunn and my Trailmaster in carbon-V. It served well attacking some seasoned firewood, chopping effectively but not in the
class of the Trailmaster ('course I didn't even bother with the thin Dunn blade here). Okay, now what... supposed to be a hunter/utility design spec'ed by Taylor, right? Nothing here to skin so I
applied the blade to a London Broil I had ready for Sunday. Decided to see how well the blade performed "detail" cuts in a choked up hold. Results: doable, much better than the Trailmaster but inadequate compared to the Dunn.
Over a relaxing pipe I contemplated what we really have here. The design is one of
compromises in this length. Too short to be an effective chopper. Too thick to slice and dice with the best in food preparation. Finger guard a liability for kitchen or camp table. Not particularly adept as a skinner. Massive strength is an asset for penetrating thrusts. Handle grip extremely comfortable. Grip's isolation characteristics would permit emergency use on electric lines, etc. Weight of over 9 ounces plus 3.5 more for the sheath approaches that of bigger camp
knives than comparable sized hunting blades. Comparable short crowbar knives include the
CRK&T Companion and some of the Katz hunters all of which also sport 1/4" thick blades.
After considerable thought I've concluded that it can not replace the dedicated chopper
(Trailmaster) or hunter-skinner-kitchen blades (Dunn, Heilscher, Buck Vanguard or even Spydie Moran). Yeah, in a pinch it can do most tasks passably; yes, it is strong and has a great edge retention. Nor is it comparable to an Ek M5 combat bowie or CS Recon Tanto for anything but penetration. What is it really good for then? Having been associated with the military since 1966, I've concluded that the pATAK II does fill a niche very well and that is as a pilot's survival knife or EMT utility blade.
Where does that leave me then? Oh I want to test it more, especially on backpacking and hunting trips. But already I've concluded that it doesn't save enough weight nor offer the power to replace a full sized camp knife. Nor can it become a primary camp kitchen or field skinning blade. It is easier to pack in my car than a Recon Tanto but damn, replacing a damaged or lost $65 dollar knife makes more sense, so it looses out there too. I'm not a pilot or EMT so it doesn't go in a survival or rescue gear duffle. I do have a special tailored all-climates "kit" issued to me as one of
only three civilian members of the base emergency response group. It would serve well there.
Is it a "keeper"? Dunno at this point. If I were offered a Busse Steel Heart II or Battle Mistress in trade, would I jump... yup! Bottom line is that I've concluded it needs to travel afield before I make a final decision to keep or sell. One thing for sure, I haven't joined the Church of Tactical Truth of MadDog fanatics. Kevin makes a great blade, no question there. The designs have merit, again no question. But there are other makers who also make great blades of outstanding design. This model is a compromise and as such must be weighed against the options of carrying dedicated purpose knives even if that requires packing more than one blade to meet needs. Time will tell......
-=[Bob]=-
---------------------------------------------
The luster and novelty of the new blade has now worn off. I remain quite annoyed that the blade arrived quite dull. Kevin has said that it happens periodically and that all one needs do is to return it to him for an edge but the hassle factor was one I chose not to deal with.
Not having been able to locate suitable substitutes for manhole covers to attack and with a semblence of return of my sanity, I set about some more realistic means of evaluation. The kitchen...ah yes, the
kitchen. Well here I'm afraid the pATAK II proved lacking. The big finger guard and the thick blade made it useful for only chopping things like carrots with it's smallish front belly. It simply lacks the finesse to function well. In the garage, lots of cardboard and a small length of yellow
nylon line were turned into scrap easily. The heft of the knife dramatically aids in these chores and frankly the edge retention outlasted an excellent D2 hunter by Melvin Dunn and my Trailmaster in carbon-V. It served well attacking some seasoned firewood, chopping effectively but not in the
class of the Trailmaster ('course I didn't even bother with the thin Dunn blade here). Okay, now what... supposed to be a hunter/utility design spec'ed by Taylor, right? Nothing here to skin so I
applied the blade to a London Broil I had ready for Sunday. Decided to see how well the blade performed "detail" cuts in a choked up hold. Results: doable, much better than the Trailmaster but inadequate compared to the Dunn.
Over a relaxing pipe I contemplated what we really have here. The design is one of
compromises in this length. Too short to be an effective chopper. Too thick to slice and dice with the best in food preparation. Finger guard a liability for kitchen or camp table. Not particularly adept as a skinner. Massive strength is an asset for penetrating thrusts. Handle grip extremely comfortable. Grip's isolation characteristics would permit emergency use on electric lines, etc. Weight of over 9 ounces plus 3.5 more for the sheath approaches that of bigger camp
knives than comparable sized hunting blades. Comparable short crowbar knives include the
CRK&T Companion and some of the Katz hunters all of which also sport 1/4" thick blades.
After considerable thought I've concluded that it can not replace the dedicated chopper
(Trailmaster) or hunter-skinner-kitchen blades (Dunn, Heilscher, Buck Vanguard or even Spydie Moran). Yeah, in a pinch it can do most tasks passably; yes, it is strong and has a great edge retention. Nor is it comparable to an Ek M5 combat bowie or CS Recon Tanto for anything but penetration. What is it really good for then? Having been associated with the military since 1966, I've concluded that the pATAK II does fill a niche very well and that is as a pilot's survival knife or EMT utility blade.
Where does that leave me then? Oh I want to test it more, especially on backpacking and hunting trips. But already I've concluded that it doesn't save enough weight nor offer the power to replace a full sized camp knife. Nor can it become a primary camp kitchen or field skinning blade. It is easier to pack in my car than a Recon Tanto but damn, replacing a damaged or lost $65 dollar knife makes more sense, so it looses out there too. I'm not a pilot or EMT so it doesn't go in a survival or rescue gear duffle. I do have a special tailored all-climates "kit" issued to me as one of
only three civilian members of the base emergency response group. It would serve well there.
Is it a "keeper"? Dunno at this point. If I were offered a Busse Steel Heart II or Battle Mistress in trade, would I jump... yup! Bottom line is that I've concluded it needs to travel afield before I make a final decision to keep or sell. One thing for sure, I haven't joined the Church of Tactical Truth of MadDog fanatics. Kevin makes a great blade, no question there. The designs have merit, again no question. But there are other makers who also make great blades of outstanding design. This model is a compromise and as such must be weighed against the options of carrying dedicated purpose knives even if that requires packing more than one blade to meet needs. Time will tell......
-=[Bob]=-
Bald,
Isn't it always the cat that calls the kettle black. Just because you don't care for your MD blade doesn't mean that there are those of us who don't really like ours, and because we are fond of a particular knife maker doesn't make us fanatics. I know knife enthusiasts who are really fond of Randalls and buy one at every oportunity. I don't call them fanatics. Many individuals are fond of one makers knives over another for whatever reason.
Before you call any one a fanatic remember that you are on a knife forum that is for knife enthusiasts, or anotherwords knife fanatics.
The last thing I want to do is come on and hear folks insulted here for being into knives. I hear enough from outsiders. Such as paranoid, sicko's, insinuations that those into knives are a bunch of low life degenerates or wierdos's who are capable of henious crimes.
And if you want a list of fanatics I suggest you go to several threads, The one entitled, knifoholics anonomous, the one about freaks and the one titled something like, "the ten things you do if you are tactical." Or tell me are these fanatics acceptable to you because many of them are not also Mad Dog knife enthusiasts.
Isn't it always the cat that calls the kettle black. Just because you don't care for your MD blade doesn't mean that there are those of us who don't really like ours, and because we are fond of a particular knife maker doesn't make us fanatics. I know knife enthusiasts who are really fond of Randalls and buy one at every oportunity. I don't call them fanatics. Many individuals are fond of one makers knives over another for whatever reason.
Before you call any one a fanatic remember that you are on a knife forum that is for knife enthusiasts, or anotherwords knife fanatics.
The last thing I want to do is come on and hear folks insulted here for being into knives. I hear enough from outsiders. Such as paranoid, sicko's, insinuations that those into knives are a bunch of low life degenerates or wierdos's who are capable of henious crimes.
And if you want a list of fanatics I suggest you go to several threads, The one entitled, knifoholics anonomous, the one about freaks and the one titled something like, "the ten things you do if you are tactical." Or tell me are these fanatics acceptable to you because many of them are not also Mad Dog knife enthusiasts.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 39,771
Donna,
Once again you have responded to a post which did not require hysterics or histrionics.
Why do you feel that you must be an apologist for MD knives?
Bob was not pointing the finger at anyone, nor did he insult anyone. He merely made some simple remarks, and said that for him, the jury was still out.
I think Bob is a self admitted knife enthusiast, dare I say fanatic about knives.
I know that I perceive him as such.
The fact that he found some possible shortcomings in his MD (which it appears he paid for) should allow him some room to critique the knife, as we do here all the time, without anyone being offended, or feeling that a call to arms has been issued.
I suggest that you take the post in the manner in which it is offered.
I'll keep my kevlar suit nearby should you feel the need to flame me.
Blues
Once again you have responded to a post which did not require hysterics or histrionics.
Why do you feel that you must be an apologist for MD knives?
Bob was not pointing the finger at anyone, nor did he insult anyone. He merely made some simple remarks, and said that for him, the jury was still out.
I think Bob is a self admitted knife enthusiast, dare I say fanatic about knives.
I know that I perceive him as such.
The fact that he found some possible shortcomings in his MD (which it appears he paid for) should allow him some room to critique the knife, as we do here all the time, without anyone being offended, or feeling that a call to arms has been issued.
I suggest that you take the post in the manner in which it is offered.
I'll keep my kevlar suit nearby should you feel the need to flame me.
Blues