Makers taking shots at other makers on "media"....

Kentucky

Kentucky

Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
2,982
First off, Im not a very social media savy person. I barely have a facebook account and it has about 40-50 friends that I actually know..I don't do twitter at all..Dont have a youtube channel etc..I do like to watch youtube on occasion..
The last few years it seems Ive seen a trend that, well I don't understand. Ive seen a lot of smiths and makers take shots at other guys, preaching to their fan boys at how "their way is best".My grinds are best, thiers are awful ,etc..Nothing really pointed to the fact of mentioning names but it dosnt take much to figure out what they mean..Some of them are spouting such awful information, I mean none of it with any factual basis at all and people are eating it up..I just don't get how a kid can make a youtube video and suddenly they are superstars in the world of craft..People talking about how great their stuff is but don't even own any of it :confused: This steel superior to that steel with absolutely no good information to back it up :rolleyes:
Am I that old guy that just dosnt get it now? :D
 
The primary function of social media is the perpetuation of drama. So the condition you describe is status quo no matter whether you speak of knife makers, looners, cop wives, or tweens. If you feel old and outdated by this, consider yourself a visionary, for in 20 years it will once again be cool to have real friends and do actual things. All new generations rebel against their lame parents, and the next rebellion will be against their lame smart phones and Snapchat addictions.
 
If I can give a different perspective, I just turned 19. For teenagers its one thing, but for the knife makers it seems its guys who are selling the story rather than the product who jocky around like this, insulting other makers.

People who are absolutely at the top of bladesmithing like Kevin Cashen, Don and Stacy can sell their products not just on the beauty, but also on their name. You know those products are the best around.

Many of the other great makers who might not have the same acclaim as guys like Don and Stacy, people like Phil Wheeler, Robert Erikson, Phillip Patton. Guys who make amazing knives dont need to resort to that kind of insults because their products stand on quality alone. They may not have a life time of expereince like some other smiths, but even without a name attached their knives are beautiful and functional.

When you get into the lower quality area you start to find your guys who sell their stuff with the myth more than the substance. These guys fill up etsy and instagram, talk about "grain alignments" from forging, refer to their poor fit and finish as "rustic" or "vintage" or will make claims that salvaged steel out preforms modern and correctly heat treated tool steel. For these people, their knives are selling on the IDEA of hand made, not the function of them. When you are selling an idea, you really have to be the loudest, and many of the buyers for these types of makers simply dont know what makes a good knife. And if someone tells them that their magical prybar-goop-quenched-bloodgrooved knife is the best, they believe it.

Honestly it confuses me a little sometimes. This market is massive. There are 4 or 5 major abrasive sellers, everyone sells steel and wood. Hell, on this forum alone, Dream burls, Mark and I exclusively sell wood, along with several other sellers who sell a fair amount. We try to be cordial to eachother because we realize there is nothing to be gained from fighting people inn your same situation.
 
You're not alone Kentucky!!
I don't even have Facebook whatever it is.
nobody needs to know what I'm doing in my house...
That's why I'm in my house...
Maybe one reason is some people :rolleyes:type before they think...
 
Lots of guys feel all "big in the britches" behind a keyboard and would never say anything in person. Like Ben said, let your work talk. If I feel like I need to convince you how good my knife is then it's not that good. A good knife will sell itself.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
This is one of the main reasons you never see me on Facebook, etc.
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Stacy, how do you perceive your presence on the forum as any different?

Not calling you out, mind you - I think you know better - but you bring up an interesting point. How, exactly, is this any less of a popularity contest?




I'll offer another viewpoint, in counter to Ben's position. In twelve years of making knives, some years more than others, I've started to develop the position that the more I learn, the LESS I know. Individuals I viewed as experts have eventually displayed human faults, or perhaps even had their facts wrong. Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law of Technology applies here, for sure. When these folks were 'experts' for me, they held enough command over information that was a mystery - to me, at least - that they came off as AUTHORITY. After you have your first expert fall from grace, you start to question everything. That's natural. In fact, I worry about guys that don't! The problem that I see in this modern era of information dissemination (or misinformation, for that matter), is that it's become nearly impossible to question someone's methods without threat of repercussion from followers and cronies.
 
Its all about youth. Anyone with enough bumps, bruises, & cuts from living life knows to beware of anyone who says their (insert item here) is better than that other guys. These are kids who just don't know any better and wont know any better for many years.
Matt your post reminds me of a quote. - What I know is a drop. What I don't know is an ocean.
I feel the exact same way. I'm not an idiot (some people disagree) and I know a bit about making knives but I totally agree. Every time I learn something new, (almost daily), I realize how much I have left to learn.
 
Matt, I will comment on one difference between forums and facebook..The forums are moderated to a degree. Facebook is a free for all were they can and do say anything their heart desires with no consequences at all...Its easy to be a keyboard commando..We use to call inmates who did the same thing from behind a locked door cell warriors..when the door opened they were a different person...I highly suspect that many on social media would be the same way if they were talking face to face and not from behind a screen. The lack of integrity and honesty is sad..After working in prisons so long Im not one to get worked up much over anything but when you take time to offer sincere "polite" advice to someone just to have a fanboy of someone else come along behind you and say something like "that's not how "x" does it, he's a real smith.See what he has to say". Well it makes you just want to stop trying because its not worth the trouble.Even that dosnt bother me personally(honestly it dosnt) I just don't understand it..Complete lack of manners ad respect in that world it seems..
 
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I have seen a lot of foolishness on Facebook, but I haven't experienced any makers talking smack about my stuff or each others-perhaps it's the personalities I'm involved with.
I have a fairly active business facebook page and haven't experienced any idiocy yet. YMMV.
 
Darrin I love your quote.
What I know is a drop. What I don't know is an ocean
Click to expand...
That is a large part of why I make knives. The thirst for knowledge.
Kentucky, This sounds like my wife's cat. It raises hell when it sees another cat outside, but won't go out the door when I open it.
We use to call inmates who did the same thing from behind a locked door cell warriors. When the door opened they were a different person
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Talkers will talk, haters will hate and doers will do. I respect the last category. Jess
 
I guess mostly what Im talking about is facebook pages in general. Ive tried to be a member of a few blacksmith and knifemaking pages and for the most part they have been "ok"..Ive been doing this a long time but still don't know much, but what I do know Im happy to share. I hate to see guys have to beat their head against the wall like I did growing up..We didn't have internet when I first started blacksmithing so I learned it all the hard way..I hate to see a young smith with promise have to learn things like I did..
Im big on being humble and very polite when talking with someone in any form. Face to face or on the net..I just think its the right thing to do..You will never see me say "my way is best" its always a way that has "worked for me, maybe you could take something from it to work for you" kind of guy..
Its not insults or anything like that, that bothers me..Im thick skinned, its the lack of respect Im starting to see that I don't understand. Just plain old common courtesy..Guess that's why I keep coming back here..You guys have always been just that. professional and respectful :thumbup:
 
J W Bensinger said:
I have seen a lot of foolishness on Facebook, but I haven't experienced any makers talking smack about my stuff or each others-perhaps it's the personalities I'm involved with.
I have a fairly active business facebook page and haven't experienced any idiocy yet. YMMV.
Click to expand...

Same here, very active at FB, TW and Instagram, didn't read anything bad about my work or ethics... again YMMV


Pablo
 
Why would you want to be on Facebook ? They don't have the standards so why should members worry about it ? They have changed the rules at times without telling members !! Even checking LIKE leads to things you may not really agree to but do they explain about it ?
I'll stick to science and opinion backed by at least some science. And honest discourse where I can learn or teach others.
 
I joined Facebook because a lot of makers don't have a website and Facebook is (or was) the only place to see their work. I don't pay much attention to bantering so I don't know what I am missing. I joined Facebook for the same reason as I joined Facebook: to look at knives that I wish I could buy. I find some guys turn it into The Political Arena but if they spew too much I unfollow them. I don't see any downside to it.
 
Large numbers of opinionated rednecks/hillbillies who are also artists. With that combination, what could possibly go wrong? :confused::D
 
Matthew Gregory said:
Stacy, how do you perceive your presence on the forum as any different?

Not calling you out, mind you - I think you know better - but you bring up an interesting point. How, exactly, is this any less of a popularity contest?




I'll offer another viewpoint, in counter to Ben's position. In twelve years of making knives, some years more than others, I've started to develop the position that the more I learn, the LESS I know. Individuals I viewed as experts have eventually displayed human faults, or perhaps even had their facts wrong. Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law of Technology applies here, for sure. When these folks were 'experts' for me, they held enough command over information that was a mystery - to me, at least - that they came off as AUTHORITY. After you have your first expert fall from grace, you start to question everything. That's natural. In fact, I worry about guys that don't! The problem that I see in this modern era of information dissemination (or misinformation, for that matter), is that it's become nearly impossible to question someone's methods without threat of repercussion from followers and cronies.
Click to expand...


I'm not on Facebook, but I'm familiar with it and I wouldn't compare it to bladeForums.
 
jdm61 said:
Large numbers of opinionated rednecks/hillbillies who are also artists. With that combination, what could possibly go wrong? :confused::D
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Rednecks maybe, but not hillbillys..They is a difference..Dont down a hillbilly by calling him redneck :D
 
I was just using the two best known generic terms. I could include coonass, peckerwood, cracker, clodhopper, hayseed, bumpkin, hick, yokel and even that strange one from central Pennsylvania, hoagie. :D
Kentucky said:
Rednecks maybe, but not hillbillys..They is a difference..Dont down a hillbilly by calling him redneck :D
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