Manix 2 easy lock modification

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xavierdoc

Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
139
On the Spyderco Forum HunterSeeker5 posted a mod to make the Manix 2 lock action a little slicker. He swapped the ball bearing in the lock for a ceramic one.

It's cheap and easy so I did the ball bearing mod on my Manix 2's lock. I swapped the 3/16 steel ball bearing for a silicon nitride one. This is quick vid of before and after the mod.

(NB. this mod will invalidate your warranty)

[video=youtube_share;OXzR1Qum3-g]http://youtu.be/OXzR1Qum3-g[/video]

(Note to self, don't make videos without coffee first!)

I like the mod because I like to tinker and personalise my knives. The lock disengages a little more easily and it is slightly easier to flick the blade open with finger or thumb. The key word is "slightly"!

If you do the mod, make sure you reassemble with the open side of the polymer cage toward the spine.

Thanks, Hunterseeker5 for the mod.
 
Frozy said:
Great mod! It'll be nice if you had shown us the process in the video :)
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Hunterseeker5 covers it in his instructions (on the Spyderco forum) -didn't want to steal the mod. The only pitfall (that I can see) is putting the polymer cage back upside down.
 
So if the ceramic ball is harder will it not wear on the blade worse? Maybe it doesn't really wear on the blade due to it being on top of the tang, I'm just wondering?
 
David Lowry said:
So if the ceramic ball is harder will it not wear on the blade worse? Maybe it doesn't really wear on the blade due to it being on top of the tang, I'm just wondering?
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I also wonder how susceptible it is to cracking.
 
The ceramic ball is much harder than the blade. I would guess that it would not wear, in the way we usually think of surface wear, but I would also bet (based on experience with ceramic/steel interface in the Umnumzaan) that the hard ceramic ball will dimple the blade tang. Whether that's a concern or not, I don't know. :)

David Lowry said:
So if the ceramic ball is harder will it not wear on the blade worse? Maybe it doesn't really wear on the blade due to it being on top of the tang, I'm just wondering?
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THG said:
I also wonder how susceptible it is to cracking.
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I wondered the same thing but apparently no amount of force you could apply to the ball in a knife would affect the ceramic ball. It looks like you'd destroy the knife's physical construction/integrity first.

Doing this mod certainly voids the warranty and, unlike a lot of other things that would in theory void the warranty without Spyderco figuring it out and/or caring, assuming that I'm right about a noticeable dimple on the blade tang from the ball, this mod is likely to leave a pretty permanent indication of the mod. FWIW...
 
Agreed- the warranty will be void by this mod.

I don't think cracking will be an issue, having seen the pics Hunterseeker5 posted (he hit the ball with a hammer- the concrete floor cracked and had a 3/16 dimple in it!)

As for dimpling the blade, this is a possibility. I would be interested to know what the relative hardness of the original BB is to the blade tang. If the tang is normally harder than the BB, would the BB develop flat spots?

I'll take some pics of the tang and see if a dimple/wear pattern develops.
 
The metal ball bearing and the blade tang appear to be roughly the same hardness. I haven't tried swapping bearings, so I don't have personal info on whether the ceramic bearing will dimple the tang, but having had this happen in a similar case with the Umnu, I would expect that this will happen. But then again, I'm wrong about all kinds of things all day long. :)
 
Here are some pics of the area of the tang where the ball engages:

Manix M4 (already seen some heavy use with the original steel ball bearing, recently modded to ceramic):

IMG_4321M4earlypostmod.jpg


It's not an easy area to photograph. I have marked with an arrow the contact point from the ball:

IMG_4323M4earlypostmod.jpg


Unfortunately, I don't know whether the deformation/wear marks were there before I did the mod.

Here are some pics of the same area on an unused (but opened and closed about ten times) Manix 2 Moonglow (CPMS30v blade and standard steel ball bearing lock):

IMG_4327Moonglownomodunused.jpg


I'll keep an eye on this area of the modded knife and see if there is any discernible change over time.
 
JNewell said:
I wondered the same thing but apparently no amount of force you could apply to the ball in a knife would affect the ceramic ball. It looks like you'd destroy the knife's physical construction/integrity first.

Doing this mod certainly voids the warranty and, unlike a lot of other things that would in theory void the warranty without Spyderco figuring it out and/or caring, assuming that I'm right about a noticeable dimple on the blade tang from the ball, this mod is likely to leave a pretty permanent indication of the mod. FWIW...
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Yeah you're not going to destroy the ball like this. TRUST ME.

Let me quote myself from spyderco forums:
(OP can be found here: http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53756 )
hunterseeker5 said:
Aren't you so lucky I'm not a pinhead and I thought of and tested this BEFORE posting the mod. This is a single larger 15/64" zirconium oxide bearing ball which withstood both these impact tests. I also had tried crushing it in my vice (damaged the jaws) and both craters you see are the product of a sledgehammer strike. Oh yeah and that isn't regular concrete its fiberglass reinforced concrete which is freaking impossible to break. The ball hadn't taken even a hint of damage from all that and was still the same size down to the hundredth of a mm.

314987_2264668970265_1054731304_2473349_1785317088_n.jpg

301622_2264670090293_1054731304_2473350_2037279223_n.jpg

308387_2264667890238_1054731304_2473348_993345841_n.jpg


So to answer your question directly, no I don't think its going to shatter.



I don't know. If you send me one I'll let you know in exchange for the knife. ;)





It is. Basically the edge's peak sharpness becomes dependent on the thickness of the carbide deposit. Thicker deposits make the knife a tank, but less sharp. That said that manix will go through anything and, with the exception of the first time, I've NEVER sharpened it and that includes scoring glass and scribing steel. I actually did a little work with Spyderco testing this tech. Sal came back to me with CATRA results on my most refined process (better than you see here) and said it basically doubled the edge retention of the knife. The problem you have is that you'll never be able to run it hair whittling sharp (you can sharpen it to that point but it'll just burn off immediately to its stable sharpness) and its microserrated. For those of us used to 6000 grit polishes it takes some getting used to. Its sharpened on just one side (the back side) although depending on the knife's application it may never need it. I do think a blade with an earlier treatment found its way over to Ankerson, but I never heard how it performed from him. Honestly my favorite uses for it are on kitchen knives, (using a good slicing action makes it cut effortlessly through even the softest tomato as opposed to a slightly dulled high polish edge which has trouble getting through the skin) machetes, and shop knives that are going to take a beating.

I do actually have a website if you'd like more info on all of it, although you'll have to wade through some other crap because I sell air rifles and their parts. ;) Just scroll all the way to the bottom of this page:
http://hsarmory.webs.com/productsandservices.htm
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I am an obsessive flicker, so what does over 10K cycles do for your tang?
426272_2849404588290_1054731304_2767028_1470753253_n.jpg

Basically nothing. My blade was etched in a mild acid, so you can physically where the ball has been riding, but its not dented, damaged, or prematurely worn at all. If anything actually it looks less worn than the manix 2 I let a steel ball ride on
 
Not got a degree in this area, but wouldn't it take a very( very, very?) long time to get any discernable wear, or any wear that would effect the lockup of the knife? I just keep thinking about the ceramic interface with the Umnumzaan mentioned above. Chris Reeve's does not build and put out a product without knowing how each and every part is going to workout.
 
I'm not really sure what this mod is trying to accomplish. I mean, I've read all the posts and understand what they're saying but don't see the need. I have 3 Manix 2's and the locks release smoothly, the blades deploy very smoothly by hand, and all are easy to flick open. The G10 I have is crazy smooth but the lightweights aren't far behind. If anything the lock springs are a little too stiff but I assumed that was due to the heavy springs they use. Does replacing the steel ball bearing with ceramic make it easy to work the lock?
 
Honestly I believe polishing of mating surfaces has more effect than swapping the ball out. That is what happens to a Manix 2 that I get that is a little stiff.
 
Changing the spring will have an even greater effect. It's possible to get Axis Lock-like ease of use with a quality replacement spring of lesser tension. All my Manixes get a McMaster Carr replacement. Alternatively, you can remove 3 coils from the stock spring an achieve a similar results. As with the Axis and it's rather weak omega springs, there is no backward pressure on the ball bearing when the knife is in use. Thus the most important aspect of the spring is it's length. It must be long enough to fully seat the ball bearing.

What you will sacrifice is detent strength---you will be able to swing the blade with enough inertia. If that's not ideal for your use, then replacing the spring is not a mod I would recommend.
 
Sharp Guy said:
I'm not really sure what this mod is trying to accomplish. I mean, I've read all the posts and understand what they're saying but don't see the need. I have 3 Manix 2's and the locks release smoothly, the blades deploy very smoothly by hand, and all are easy to flick open. The G10 I have is crazy smooth but the lightweights aren't far behind. If anything the lock springs are a little too stiff but I assumed that was due to the heavy springs they use. Does replacing the steel ball bearing with ceramic make it easy to work the lock?
Click to expand...

I was going to say similar when I first saw the thread bumped up, but didn't bother... not really convinced this is a notable upgrade.
 
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