Minors in the Cove

...
Better question. Why was the kid in the cove in the first place? Did he make his way over there chasing tales of mythical nudity on the internet or did he pop in because somebody started a thread with his name as the title? I suppose it's fine to call a 14 year old names and mock his existence, but heaven forbid he see a tit. :rolleyes:

/thread
 
Mocking and insulting are fine. Sex ed is optional.

So is participation. What happens when they ignore the pop-up? Do we call their parents?

Again, this is a made up issue. The kid in question didn't come to the cove to look at the pics. He didn't even acknowledge them. He came to the forum because he was called out (no clue on what that's about). Simple solution: Don't want the know-it-all 14 year old in the cove? Don't post up a welcome sign with his name on it.
 
Oh it's possible to add an intermediate page, but it's not easy in the least. Something that would be easy - add a warning like the text box at the top of Practical tactical. Obviously VBulletin has a feature that lets you add those easily. What you're asking for is a gateway.

Remember, Spark did not create this website - he installed and configured VBulletin, which is just software someone else programmed. All the features are already decided, and adding something like a configurable gateway feature requires a ton of work for a programmer - it's about impossible for the vast majority of forum owners that just install and configure a platform like VBulletin.

The one way to add features is to find a plugin. PLugins are designed by other programmers based on if there is enough need that they can make money on it. Most are very weak - like, there might be a gateway plugin, but it puts up the gateway on every single forum. Also, every plugin is another security issue because it's another thing that hackers can exploit. You have to keep them updated, and you have to hope that the creator will keep updating it indefinitely. Most plugins cost $$$, and the ones that are free usually include some malicious code that allows the creator to get payment out of you one way or another. I'm not an expert with VBulletin, but I would guess that there's a 95% chance that it doesn't have the feature you're asking for built in, and there isn't a reputable plugin available that is powerful enough to configure it to do exactly what you're asking and nothing more.

Now, it is possible to hard code a gateway into the forum with deep edits. The problem there is that even if you're a professional programmer, it's extremely hard to add a feature like that to a platform that has several hundred files already. You have to engineer a way to integrate the feature into the existing framework, then you have to code .PHP files. YOu have to integrate that code with existing .PHP files. You have to write the .HTML files for the pages that will be displayed, and you have to add the the .css files that configure the new attributes. Now, you also have to add the control features to the back end, and add code snippets through many files in the form of if-then statements that say "If the gateway is turned on, redirect through so and so file / if no, then void this operation". Since you're editing core files and files dealing with the backend, you could mess up the forum or even mess up the control panels. There could be code already existing that interferes with the integration of such a feature, and the code you write could possibly interfere with any number of other commands, files, and features. Just for an example of how involved edits like this is, you can pay a programmer $500 to install, configure and add a pre-conceived design to a Wordpress website. If you asked them to Design an entire theme, you would spend $5,000 minimum for a very basic theme.

There might be an easy way to integrate it, but then all a kid has to do is click "Yes I'm 18" and they're in anyway - what exactly is the point in going through all the trouble?? If there are no quick fixes, it's just not going to be feasible to go through all the trouble for a gateway that doesn't really do anything anyway; that you're wanting to give you a false sense of security.

The reason I said don't mention is this: it's not an easy fix like I said, and it's not very effective. Unless there is a turn key solution for cheap, it's not going to be worth the investment in time, energy and money. As far as liability, there really isn't any legal exposure; all Forums include COPPA statements, and the only Internet law with teeth concerning minors is the COPPA, which says that you cant collect personally identifiable information from minors without an express written consent form signed by their parents. Since so much personal information is submitted and shared through forums, most of those scripts will include the COPPA in their programming. By agreeing to the BF TOS, you're asserting that you're >13, and by visiting the site you're surfing on your own free will. As a paid member to have access to the more explicit forums, you have to provide some kind of payment which comes from an adult. There are many layers between real liability and the website. However, just because there is no real legal grounds Doesn't mean there can't be a case. You can file charges on anything, and let the courts make a decision - that's a very nasty, costly and aggravating process. One thing that everyone is doing by whining and making several threads about this is wiping out any deniability that somebody would have - nobody can say "I wasn't aware that this was a problem anymore". So despite the lack of legal liability, it could be in the best interest of certain parties to nip it in the bud to avoid any claims or cases whatsoever. Since the implementation of the gateway is most likely convoluted, costly, and involved (although technically possible), and simply deleting the forums with mature content is so easy, cheap and straightforward, the solution to this problem, if it exists (and if enough members make it a big deal it's eventually going to constitute a problem) would be to take the easy route.

As for porn, if I was 13 in 2014, I would be streaming HD video from a dedicated porn site instead of hoping that one of the perverts on an unrelated forum shared my same tastes in brunettes with a thigh gap, and gambling that they only posted from age verified sources (temporary Internet files are physical files on your computer). I rarely visit the threads in question, so it doesn't matter to me really what happens - but I know a lot of paying members do care a whole lot, so I wouldn't want to do anything to affect it for them unless there was an extremely pressing reason. The reason I don't visit them much? Not much need since my early high school years - oh the irony.

I'm definitely not advocating that people not discuss what they want though. If it's a pressing concern for you have at it, but there are certain truths that aren't going to change no matter how many people support something - like how difficult it is for someone that just installed an application to re-write it (it's like me telling you to add a function to your Internet browser - you're not really a programmer just because you installed Firefox are you?), how available a plugin is (if it doesn't exist, it doesn't exist. If existing plugins aren't powerful enough, there's no easy way around it), or the fact that the solution that the majority of people do not want is by far the easiest, and if everybody pushes for a solution they just might get one. I could be wrong too - there may be integrated features in VBulletin that make those changes a whiz, but I do not recall any configurable gateways that do what you're wanting. It's not a matter of supporting your idea if the solution isn't feasible. It might be a choice between letting everyone access the mature parts of the site, or letting no one.

It seems the simplest of things is always complex, isn't it? I have no deep conviction in this, I fully realize anyone can find whatever they want on the internet. it just seemed like the right thing to do. as simple as that. You took some time to explain the complexities, and I appreciate it. you seem to think I am intent on causing trouble, I'm not. I accept your expanation as fact, although I note you said you could be wrong.
 
I'm hardly one to weigh in on anything grounded in morality but the chance to play devil's advocate is whispering in my ear... Also, I love me some grandiose "worst-case" scenarios...

... So there I was....

I'm in deep focus accosting one of you old-fart frequent flyers... Someone called me a poopie-head and said all kinds of rude things about my 3rd grade teacher. I love my 3rd grade teacher so this means war....

Sal, Jim, Joey, and Jim-Bob post boobies to lighten the mood...meanwhile Username; Snotface, a pimple-faced minor of old money and a very baptismal upbringing, logs on and starts to wonder how long mom and dad are gonna be gone getting groceries... The family abides by a gluten-free, caffeine, kosher-free, taste-good-spit-it-out diet, so he gives it the green light, cracks open a mountain-dew, and starts enjoying the fit-girl bladeforum scenery guilt free....


I'm still upset at the situation involving my 3rd grade teacher, I'm tired of everyone trying to smooth over conflict with boobies so I post something down-right deplorable. Pornography holds a broad spectrum of weird and nasty; use you imagination.... The idle-hands eyes of Snotface come across this photo... and bam!!! door swings open. Groceries fall to the floor with jaws... wheat germ is flying everywhere... Frail & pale Snotface, from equal parts shock and disgust, dies right there... Parents sue everyone involved...



Point; vicarious liability. If the existing fine print suffices as far as standards are concerned; cool.... However, something as trivial as a force read/ sticky/ etc. would further reinforce and further CYA...

Just a thought.
 
It seems the simplest of things is always complex, isn't it? I have no deep conviction in this, I fully realize anyone can find whatever they want on the internet. it just seemed like the right thing to do. as simple as that. You took some time to explain the complexities, and I appreciate it. you seem to think I am intent on causing trouble, I'm not. I accept your expanation as fact, although I note you said you could be wrong.

No, I really don't think you're intent on causing trouble, if anything I said came off that way that is my bad. There have been a couple other posts about minors in the cove this week though, and collectively it has become a rally I would say. I completely understand what you're saying - that if you look at the content, and consider that minors have access to it, then it's unsettling. That Blade Forums seems like a small enough community that we should be able to monitor that; and that at the very least there should be a pop up that asks for age verification when someone tries to enter that part of the site. You're not trying to get that part of the site deleted, your wishes are for a small feature that only serves as a warning. It's a request that isn't drastic, and I don't think it would be widely unpopular by itself. It's commendable to want to add an extra layer of protection for youth, but weighing the costs vs. the benefits, and considering that the problem right now is that it is unpopular with some people vs. concrete problems that site permissions have caused,

Like I said, I could be wrong and there may be simple solutions available that will do exactly what you have proposed, but most likely it would be an extremely complicated feature to add for a single sub-forum without affecting anything else, it wouldn't be very effective, and as it stands the parents have given their blessing by allowing their children to use their payment methods. They should have looked in to it more - they might just trust their kids that much, or for all we know they see it as a bargain (little Johnny gets to read the knife forum and Daddy can browse the photo threads and give up his monthly Brazzer's subscription).

I think in reality the kids are more interested in knives than the porn threads; they're rarely showing up on that part of the site compared to the amount of posts they make in general and the other sub-forums.
 
If entrance is a paid membership, no big deal, pay to play, enjoy the conversation.

If entrance is a pop-up saying no go if you're too young ... ya ever hear of forbidden fruit? All that will do is make the pictures that much more alluring.

And there does come a point when someone decides to sue, with people worrying about it so openly, or enough bitterness gets stirred up, and the off-topic forums get removed.

Snopes has a current story about a US soldier reserved a room at a motel to be ready to fly out of town the next day. Arrived, showed his military ID, and was sent packing: you have to be 21 to stay here and you are only 20.

Rules are only words if you can't enforce them. Mommy and daddy will still sue even if their darling child lied to gain access.
 
Wow, I have two threads related to me in vague ways! :rolleyes:

Anyway, I paid ten bucks for a Basic membership; under the rules as they stand, I am allowed to visit the Cove. Simple as that. I doubt that Spark is going to up and change the rules.

I think porn is perverted. I only go the the Cove to view my "personal thread." I am allowed to do that since I have a Basic membership.

Next topic?
 
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Taken from the user agreement you accepted when you joined. Read carefully and pay special attention to section B. :rolleyes:


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as it stands the parents have given their blessing by allowing their children to use their payment methods. They should have looked in to it more - they might just trust their kids that much, or for all we know they see it as a bargain (little Johnny gets to read the knife forum and Daddy can browse the photo threads and give up his monthly Brazzer's subscription)

What would they have been looking into? Or, perhaps a better question is how does one look into the existence and content of a special access subforum that can't be seen until you've gotten access?

I don't know how involved the code would be to create a one time, opt-in, pop up; but, since anybody wanting access would simply click yes, it doesn't seem like it would be worth the effort. I understand that there is some perceived protection by making people opt in (Yes, I am at least 18 years of age); but since it would really on an honor system, why not just put an age statement in the subforum description?
This section includes adult content. 18+ only!
 
Why don't people mind their own business and take responsibility for their own affairs??? If you can't feed your children..., you shouldn't have them. If you can't control your children....... Take some parental responsibility, and find out WHAT YOUR CHILDREN ARE LOOKING AT ONLINE. It is not this site's responsibility to police your children. IT'S THEIR PARENTS'!!!
 
Anyway, I paid ten bucks for a Basic membership; under the rules as they stand, I am allowed to visit the Cove. Simple as that. I doubt that Spark is going to up and change the rules.

He did change the rules. Not too long ago, it was only Gold members and above that were allowed there.
 
In hindsight, I regret posting this topic. It would have been better to send a PM to Spark or Esav. However, in suggesting a warning popup or some such, I honestly didn't think it would be a big deal, nor did I anticipate the stir this thread has caused. My apologies to anyone who was upset by this post. I personally consider this matter adequately addressed by A Justice. His post clearly laid out the technical issues associated with making any changes. I don't care what anyone looks at, I have been a member here for a long time, and want this site to thrive. I saw a potential liability, and just thought I'd offer a suggestion to help avoid any issues in the furture. I'm going back to my shop now and promise to not poke my head up for a long time. :)You folks take care!
 
The internet is notoriously difficult to police. Maybe users should just take responsibility for their own posted material and/or participation. Anyone who would feel awkward or embarrassed if Grandma or Little Jimmy sees their content should have thought twice before posting. It's a choice.

Just my 2¢...

-Brett
 
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