Mirror'd edge, why bother?

So basically what this thread is saying is that I need a Shapton glass stone.

Because that's the conclusion I'm drawing.
 
Depends entirely on what you're cutting. But if you want justification to buy a Shapton, go ahead. The more stones the merrier. :D
 
Lapedog said:
So basically what this thread is saying is that I need a Shapton glass stone.

Because that's the conclusion I'm drawing.
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That's not the conclusion I'd draw, but they do enjoy a solid reputation. One of the things Todd seems to have ID'd is how important the final finish steps are at any grit level.

Clean edges cut better and are easier to restore and maintain, at any finish.

And of course, learn what you can to (re)produce edges at a variety of finish levels and do your own testing. Don't take anyone's word as gospel, but it is useful as a guide. Or just extrapolate based on what you can do with the stones you have.
 
Lapedog, I would not order a high grit stone of any type grit. As I don't shoot for a high finish in my sharpening for daily cutting needs. I mostly strive for a general cutting edge. 3-400 grit. As I mostly cut apples, rope, cardboard, ect.. I don't work long on the edge. When it dulls I can
quickly bring it back to sharp by stropping. When this can no longer be achieved I take it back to a 300 grit stone for a touch up. I have a high grit Spyderco
ultra fine ceramic stone and rarely use it. DM
 
"One thing needed to understand though, a polished edge as it dulls is dull - it does not turn into a coarse edge."

perhaps I misspoke but this shows what I am intending to convey. Lower vanadium / no vanadium to start and then high vanadium / higher hardness shown later

wearing by fracture and chips shown here in the last third.
 
For what it is worth in leatherworking I can tell a huge difference from 120, 1000 grit shapton, compound compared to 120, 1000, 5000, compound. Not the best sharpener so this could be flawed. The steel is an o1.

I would think that the first unrefined option has tooth that can cut. The finer edge worked really well perhaps creating more like a 16spi saw vs the first option like an 8spi saw?
 
"I can tell a huge difference"
I think you were saying the 5000 makes it cut better . . . is that what you meant ?
 
I've always thought non leather workers over estimate the protection to being cut or stabbed that leather affords. Once an edge or point is sufficiently sharp it cuts leather VERY easily.
People who make knives some times wear leather aprons thinking this will protect them if a machine flings the blade back at them. Nope. Only chain mail.
 
The leather needs to be boiled, or better yet hot waxed. Then it gives quite a bit more protection, but won't make the most comfortable apron.
 
HeavyHanded said:
The leather needs to be boiled, or better yet hot waxed. Then it gives quite a bit more protection, but won't make the most comfortable apron.
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No direct experience here, but I've heard that actually does little to increase the protective qualities.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
No direct experience here, but I've heard that actually does little to increase the protective qualities.
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I have less experience with boiled leather, but forming it with hot wax makes a big difference - the stuff is basically a hard plastic. Still not chain mail! But it becomes comparatively a lot more puncture resistant and moderately more cut resistant.
 
This is more my experience:
Here is picture of two hot waxed sheaths, they get dark brown from natural leather colour, and very hard. On sheath
made from un oiled leather, there is almost a click when inserting and removing knife, and they become almost
impossible to cut through.

http://www.oldjimbo.com/Outdoors-Magazine/Hotwaxing-leather-sheaths.pdf

Compared to untreated leather I find a huge improvement. Compared to boiled untanned leather the improvement is perhaps not as significant but still there - admittedly I haven't done much testing of this (once!). I've seen zero evidence it lubricates the blade's passage. For armor I'd imagine a significant improvement for glancing blows, whether thrust or slash.

I make a fair number of sheaths with thin leather that's been wax impregnated, then heat formed into a Kydex shell. they are very cut resistant compared to older ones I made where the leather was glued to the Kydex. Wax treated ones don't even need to be adhered - shape and rivet with the Kydex and they aren't going anywhere.

Edit to add: Ragnar used to offer this (hot wax) as an added service on the leather sheaths that the older laminated Mora Classics came with. I don't believe he still does, but I've got the one he did for me around here somewhere...
 
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Here's a post from Ankerson from 2010 where he talked about the polished vs. non-polished edge for cutting results and the polished edge did better then as well:

Ankerson's Polished vs. Non-Polished Edge Cutting Results Thread

Here's the quote from the post that I like:

"The sharpness of the edges will equal out within the 1st 30 cuts when the edges stabilize then towards the end the real differences really start to show up between the polished and non polished edges because it takes a lot longer for the polished edge to break down."
 
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Boiled and waxed easy enough to test. Put a hunk over the surface of a substance similar to your thigh . . . I suppose even a water mellon would do.
then
throw a knife at it trying for a nice deep penetration.
Some of the Cold Steels go through car doors do they ?
Heck I don't know . . . I'm a big chicken when it comes to catching knives.

Ever see the canonball catchers on Monty Python ?
Good stuff. I looked for it on YouTube . . . nada.
 
Glock Guy said:
Here's a post from Ankerson from 2010 where he talked about the polished vs. non-polished edge for cutting results and the polished edge did better then as well:

Ankerson's Polished vs. Non-Polished Edge Cutting Results Thread

Here's the quote from the post that I like:

"The sharpness of the edges will equal out within the 1st 30 cuts when the edges stabilize then towards the end the real differences really start to show up between the polished and non polished edges because it takes a lot longer for the polished edge to break down."
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I may be wrong, but after he found the Congress Tools Moldmaster #400 stone, he concluded that a clean coarse edge works longer than a polished edge in his rope slicing tests.


Miso
 
miso2 said:
I may be wrong, but after he found the Congress Tools Moldmaster #400 stone, he concluded that a clean coarse edge works longer than a polished edge in his rope slicing tests.


Miso
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Thanks! I didn't see that thread, but I would believe that to be true. It seems like a toothy edge does much better cutting things like rope and cardboard (draw cut), vs. push cutting things like paper and such.
 
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