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Moore Maker 6206LL by Schatt & Morgan (Yes, You Read That Right)

Discussion in 'Traditional Folders and Fixed Blades' started by cjtamu, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. cjtamu

    cjtamu Gold Member Gold Member

    383
    Nov 6, 2018
    This has been fun. Pics are below. This was described as a Schatt & Morgan Moore Maker 6206LL. That's what it says on the blade. Okay, their 4 1/2" liner lock Trapper. Except I've never seen or heard of one with a single blade. OK. Also said it was 420HC steel. Never heard of a Moore Maker in anything but 1095. I love stag, and decided to take a chance. Figured if it was actually stainless it was probably a prototype or sample that S&M showed Moore Maker. Was waiting on me when I got to the office this morning.

    It's a beast. Our food scale says it's a little over 6.1 oz, assume the nickel silver portion of the scales adds weight. Going to need a belt pouch for sure. And it's a nail breaker. Getting a little better as I work it. Strong half stop. Locks up tight. Looks great. Edge is not too bad. Will try to get pictures that do it justice when I'm not inside shooting with my cell.

    Blade is definitely not stainless. I put it and my 420HC S&M stag Scout knife into an apple for 25 minutes to compare. Nothing on the Scout blade. But, the Moore Maker blade didn't exactly patina. I wiped, then rinsed and it developed a few spots. I've used an apple on 1095 blades and they developed patina almost immediately. Wondering if this could be D2 steel? Quick search found a few S&M knives in D2. I have zero experience with D2, but remember seeing somewhere that it might spot more than patina. Whether it's a sample or a Frankenknife it's a cool little piece and I'm glad I bought it. Love to hear from someone that knows more than I (pretty much everyone else here), particularly about the blade steel. Thanks.

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  2. Jolipapa

    Jolipapa Basic Member Basic Member

    Jun 4, 2015
    Country Cousins by Queen used D2 steel and are great knives. D2 is quasi stainless in normal use, though I did not leave it in an apple for 1/2h.
     
  3. Ernie1980

    Ernie1980 Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 19, 2012
    I have never seen anything like that before! If it is D2 you are fortunate because Queen did a great job with the steel. It can be a little difficult to sharpen but holds an edge really well.
     
  4. cjtamu

    cjtamu Gold Member Gold Member

    383
    Nov 6, 2018
    I hadn't either. D2 would be my best guess based on the little I know. Which is that it's not stainless, is hard to force a patina on, and took a bit to sharpen even though the factory edge was decent. Probably never know for sure, but I like it anyway ;)
     
  5. Some apples aren't very acidic at all. A few I've tried have done essentially nothing in terms of patina, when using carbon steel blades (1095, etc) to slice/cut apples. Maybe not so coincidentally, the apples which seem to have little acidity also seem to be seriously lacking in flavor, from what I've seen. I've had better luck with something like red grapes, in producing a quick patina on a 1095 blade or similar. You can smell the reaction too, and it'll completely ruin the flavor of the grape (metallic taste), turning the flesh of the grape a dark blue or nearly black. D2 won't react in the same manner, behaving more like a stainless steel.

    And if the blade is highly polished, as the OP's pic seems to show, that'll also slow the oxidizing effect from fruit or whatever.

    A more conclusive patina test for a carbon steel blade would be using a drop or two of vinegar on the blade. Even more profound if the vinegar is hot. A carbon steel blade tip dipped in hot vinegar or hot vinegar/water mix, will start to turn BLACK in a few seconds. D2 won't do this nearly as fast, if at all. And a drop or two of room-temp vinegar on a D2 blade won't do much either, if anything. Less-so on a polished D2 blade like the Queen, for example.

    In sharpening, something like an Arkansas stone will really struggle with D2 in removing much metal (try this on something like a medium or 'Washita' Arkansas stone). By contrast, a medium Arkansas stone will remove metal from a 1095 blade easily, producing much more visible swarf in the process. A medium Ark will also sharpen a steel like 420HC pretty easily. I suggest using a medium Arkansas as the test, because some 'sharpening' done with something like a black hard or translucent Arkansas stone might simply realign the edge on some more wear-resistant steels like D2 and others, instead of actually removing metal. So a sharpening test on such a stone can be misleading about the stone's capabilities and/or the steel's wear resistance. Edge might get 'sharper' on it, but perhaps not for the reasons assumed.
     
    knowtracks likes this.
  6. cjtamu

    cjtamu Gold Member Gold Member

    383
    Nov 6, 2018
    Good points @Obsessed with Edges . I know these apples are acidic, because a few days ago Kim started hollering when she cut a couple up with her Moore Maker Coffin Jack ha ha ha. Sharpening was done on Spyderco Tri-angle. Thought about vinegar or mustard, but there's no way I'm ever going to know for sure. And I'm not usually a big fan of patina, so just decided to leave it be rather than risk a patina I couldn't remove.
     
  7. hornetguy

    hornetguy Gold Member Gold Member

    408
    Feb 11, 2015
    So..... this is a knife sold by Moore Maker, stamped with the Schatt and Morgan trademarks/logos, but manufactured by Queen?

    [​IMG]
     
    meako likes this.
  8. cjtamu

    cjtamu Gold Member Gold Member

    383
    Nov 6, 2018
    I'm still in the learning stages, so someone correct me if I'm wrong. My understanding is Schatt & Morgan was part of Queen, the "high end" line. All made at the Queen factory, but different materials, and I think some different patterns maybe? Kind of like the relationship between GEC, Tidouette, and Northfield I think. Queen made knives for a lot of different companies, Moore Maker being one of them. I have 2 of the Queen-made knives and they're wonderful. Every Moore Maker knife I've ever seen or heard of is 1095 steel, including the ones made for them by Queen, Utica, Camillus, Canal Street, and Bear & Sons. All of those have Moore Maker on the shield rather than Queen, etc. Manufacturers on some are identifiable by the tang stamp, some by the pinned shield or handle material, some by the pattern.

    So, I told you that story to tell you this one. Moore Maker sold a 6206LL. Made for them by both Queen I believe, and they did make it in stag. But, it was a 2 blade trapper with a clip and spey in 1095. This is obviously a single blade, and to my knowledge Moore Maker never sold the 6206LL as a single-blade. The "shield" of course says S&M rather than Moore Maker. Blade is definitely high carbon. S&M was known more for SS knives, we have one in 420HC and one in ATS-34. I know they made some knives in D2, but not aware of any in 1095, which is one of the things making me wonder if it's D2. It seems to be a one-off, either a sample they made to show Moore Maker or just one that got thrown together out of spare parts late in Queen's existence. Been having a lot of fun trying to find out.

    Editor's note: Kim said, "Why don't we drive to Matador and show it to them and ask them"? It's 516 miles from our house in Texas to Matador, Texas. Gotta love a girl like that ;).
     
    meako likes this.
  9. knowtracks

    knowtracks Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 16, 2006
    My guess would be it's a knife just put together at the end of Queens existence.
    Obviously it was a blade made for MM, it shouldn't have a S&M etch on it. As to the blade steel, Queen usually stamps their D2 with PH-D2 which stands for Peters Heat treating and the steel. But I'm not sure if that stamp would apply for a blade made for a MM knife.
    As you said, most of the S&M knives have 420HC or ATS- 34 blade steel but they have used both 1095 and D2 before. Charlie's HJ # 3 is 1095, and our Bladeforums 2009 Barlow is D2 both of which have a Schatt stamp.
    Only by the sharpening and staining tests are you going to be reasonable confident in what steel you have there. :D
    Dave
     
  10. brownshoe

    brownshoe I support this site with my MIND

    Sep 6, 2002
    I have some limited info. Pre-Daniels ownership, Queen D2 was marked with a P for Peter's heat treat, I think that was mostly in Queen or contract knives, not S&M. Queen in the Daniels era dropped D2 and used 1095 for non-stainless. I think pre-Daniels did use 1095 in both Queen and S&M knives. Both D2 and 1095 were well done by Queen and Peters. If the blade is shiny, you can usually rule out D2
     
  11. blademan 13

    blademan 13 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 25, 2000
    I believe @knowtracks nailed this one. Still a very interesting knife and quite a good looking one as well. Most likely a one of a kind.
     
  12. cjtamu

    cjtamu Gold Member Gold Member

    383
    Nov 6, 2018
    Ha ha ha. Great info, thanks. Pretty much what I told Kim before it arrived. If it’s actually SS with Moore Maker tang stamp it’s probably a sample they made. If it’s carbon????? Conversation piece for sure, and took a nice edge. Will cut thin little slivers out of a foam peanut. Should be a fun carry.

    Pretty sure there’s a 6206LL at the feed store here. Going to try and sneak up there tomorrow and compare blades. I know it doesn’t have the S&M etch ha ha.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
    meako likes this.
  13. hornetguy

    hornetguy Gold Member Gold Member

    408
    Feb 11, 2015
    Yeah... I'm about 300 miles from there. Just a hop and a skip, for Texas.

    I ran into the guy from Moore Maker in Dickens once, when we stopped for barbeque. He was with a younger guy. I made some kind of comment like "hey I really like your knives"... something like that. He was, um... reticent. He didn't say much at all. I got a pretty distinct "leave me alone" vibe from him... so I did. I've heard others say that he's not the most personable guy in the world.

    I said all that to prepare you for the possibility that he might not want to talk about it. But then again, he might open up and tell you all about it. I'd say it's about 50/50...

    It's still an interesting knife...
     

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