More newbie qestions.

M

Mr. Swede

Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Messages
24
Hello and thanks for letting me join the forum.

A couple of month ago I got fed up with my dull knives and bought this jig.

https://m.banggood.com/sv/Professio...System-Fix-angle-with-4-Stones-p-1119750.html

Though the jig has its shortcomings combined with my lack of knowledge my knifes got sharper. During the holidays I decided to study the art of knifesharpening and found the "raising burr" technique. And boy did my knife get sharper.
I have a problem with the burr when I use the finest stone, 1500. The stone leaves a very small burr even when I apply no pressure, just the weight of the stone.
So my question is should I get a finer stone, a strop or is it my technique?
 
You probably have a burr that's flipping back and forth from side to side. Cut it off. Do 2 VERY light strokes (per side) at a much higher angle. Maybe 10 degrees higher. Then do a few alternating strokes back at the original angle. That will probably do it.

Good luck.

Brian.
 
Sorry if your knife is shown in the link. I didn't get the link to load on my old i-Pad.
What steel is in the knife that forms the bur ?
 
Thanks for the answers.

Cap’n Smudge Cap’n Smudge : what kind of strop do you recommend, I've seen different kinds. Should I use a loose strop like the ones for shaving knives, or a one glued to a piece of wood? Or should I make one that I can use in my system at the correct angle? Also, should I use paste, I can easily get hold of Tormek PA-70 paste.

@begentry: I'll try it the next time.

Wowbagger Wowbagger : I have absolutely no idea. It's one of my mothers old knives I've sharpened during my Christmas visit. I remember the knife from when I was living at home, I'm turning 42 next month.
 
Mr. Swede said:
(...)
I have a problem with the burr when I use the finest stone, 1500. The stone leaves a very small burr even when I apply no pressure, just the weight of the stone.
So my question is should I get a finer stone, a strop or is it my technique?
Click to expand...

With jigs positioning the stone above the blade, even the 'weight of the stone' (and the jig's guide rod) can be much too heavy sometimes. More so at higher finish, as the edge gets thinner and will fold (burr) under almost no pressure. Try using your hand/fingers to support most of the weight of the stone from below the handle, so you're effectively applying less than the weight of the stone; hopefully much less, so it feels like the stone is just barely grazing or floating across the bevels.
 
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Be sure to use a Stop Collar and learn to use it to compensate for slight differences in stone thickness. There are Vids on YouTube.

Once you get the bur really thin and minimal with the finest stone you have move the stone a couple of passes edge leading only (as if cutting a label off the stone) and do this on both sides of the knife alternating. Lift the stone off the blade to return it to the extended position each time. The bur should come off with enough of this motion.

Then go a couple of passes per side alternating and just go edge trailing and lift the stone to return the stone to the retracted position for the next edge trailing pass.

If you over do the latter then you will form another bur.

I usually use this method to debur and I usually don't change the stone angle for this deburing phase.
 
Thanks for your tips. I used them when I played around with a cheap Japanese knife. I'm not sure if should call it Japanese. It came free with a magazine subscription and the first thing I noticed is that it said "made in china" on the box... Annywho I got a shaving edge on it after some time and I'm quite proud of it because it's the first knife I really put my heart in to sharpen, and that it was on a cheap knife (seen it online for as low as 13$).
The things I've learned is:
Keep a clean workspace so you don't bump into your tea mug and loose the rhythm and whack the plastic stoneholder in the fragile edge.
Don't talk to your 6 year old kid about space so you put the stone wrongly in the holder so you produce a second bevel.
And last, I need to make my own jig. The one I have is in my wiew a good example of "pay little, get less".
 
Hello again.
I helped a friend sharpening his kitchen knives and had a strange experience. I wasn't able to produce a burr, non at all. I even ran the edge across the tip of my nose and wasn't able to feel even the smallest micro burr. But I got the knives proper sharp (cut through printer paper without fraying the paper edge). The knifes was a gift and dosen't have any stamps on it so I have no idea about the maker and steel of the knives. Does anyone know any reasons why this happened? Is it my technique or is it the steel?
 
Mr. Swede said:
Hello again.
I helped a friend sharpening his kitchen knives and had a strange experience. I wasn't able to produce a burr, non at all. I even ran the edge across the tip of my nose and wasn't able to feel even the smallest micro burr. But I got the knives proper sharp (cut through printer paper without fraying the paper edge). The knifes was a gift and dosen't have any stamps on it so I have no idea about the maker and steel of the knives. Does anyone know any reasons why this happened? Is it my technique or is it the steel?
Click to expand...

Ummm...

Something about your technique doesn't quite pass the smell test...
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
With jigs positioning the stone above the blade, even the 'weight of the stone' (and the jig's guide rod) can be much too heavy sometimes.
Click to expand...

It has been my thinking that guided systems make force less of a problem, unless micro-beveling, as having the stone or polish tape flat to the bevel distributes the force across it and thereby produces a lower pressure. With the Edge Pro if I keep a light grip on the knife too much pressure causes the blade to tilt a little, moving the contact point to the shoulder of the bevel; this doesn't work with every knife but it seems to help most of the time. If you are an Edge Pro user do you still find the need to use feather weight when finishing average bevels (say 1mm or wider) at a consistent angle?
 
Mr.Wizard said:
It has been my thinking that guided systems make force less of a problem, unless micro-beveling, as having the stone or polish tape flat to the bevel distributes the force across it and thereby produces a lower pressure. With the Edge Pro if I keep a light grip on the knife too much pressure causes the blade to tilt a little, moving the contact point to the shoulder of the bevel; this doesn't work with every knife but it seems to help most of the time. If you are an Edge Pro user do you still find the need to use feather weight when finishing average bevels (say 1mm or wider) at a consistent angle?
Click to expand...

I haven't used the Edge Pro (don't have one). I used to notice these pressure issues with other guided systems using stones even smaller than those used for the EP, like Lansky, Gatco and DMT Aligner. In particular, the diamond hones for the Lansky were actually quite heavy, being a solid piece of steel about 1/4" thick, in spite of the fact they were the smallest hones of the three. Other burring issues also came about if the stones weren't ALWAYS kept perfectly flat & flush, sometimes tilting to one side or the other and leaving the corners of the hone as the only contact point against the bevels.

Since I've been freehand sharpening, I've found it easier to minimize weight-related pressure issues like that, as all of my finishing passes are done without positioning the stone over the blade, meaning the weight of the stone is no longer a factor at all. In fact, I do most of the finishing passes with a stone hand-held vertically (or very nearly so) and the blade's edge upward, meaning all weight-related factors of either the stone or the blade are directed linearly along the length of the stone (toward the floor), so contact between stone and blade is easily kept featherlight.
 
Thanks. I also use a vertical method when micro-beveling or deburring by hand, to limit force.
 
Mr. Swede said:
Hello again.
I helped a friend sharpening his kitchen knives and had a strange experience. I wasn't able to produce a burr, non at all. I even ran the edge across the tip of my nose and wasn't able to feel even the smallest micro burr. But I got the knives proper sharp (cut through printer paper without fraying the paper edge). The knifes was a gift and dosen't have any stamps on it so I have no idea about the maker and steel of the knives. Does anyone know any reasons why this happened? Is it my technique or is it the steel?
Click to expand...
Hi,
so you're using magic marker, and sharpening stone is removing magic marker at the apex?
what grit stone do you start with and how many strokes do you use?
are you using a squishy strop?

Sounds like you need more strokes with first stone, and less strokes with last squishy strop :)


Also , face surgery is really really expensive :) dont cut yourself
safe practice during deliberate rested calm times,
leads to safe practice during tired stressful rushed times
 
Mr. Swede said:
Hello again.
I helped a friend sharpening his kitchen knives and had a strange experience. I wasn't able to produce a burr, non at all. I even ran the edge across the tip of my nose and wasn't able to feel even the smallest micro burr. But I got the knives proper sharp (cut through printer paper without fraying the paper edge). The knifes was a gift and dosen't have any stamps on it so I have no idea about the maker and steel of the knives. Does anyone know any reasons why this happened? Is it my technique or is it the steel?
Click to expand...

Have you looked at the stones closely? I wonder if stone quality might be a issue there are a few videos on Youtube about edge pro clones stones. (First post looks like edge pro clone I could be wrong)

.

When you get a decent burr you should be able to feel with finger. Nose should not be needed :).
 
Thanks for all the replies and tips but first.
Why did I use my nose? I have sharpened several knifes with my system and gotten a nice burr but not this time. So I figured what body part can I rub against the edge that is more sensitive than my fingertips? The answer was obvious but nope, ain't gonna happen. So I used my nose instead.

I have realised after watching ksknives's video that I have the cheap knockoff and that explains a lot. I have been wondering how you guys could say that Edge pro is good when I thought it was close to rubbish.

I sharpen the knives by the book. I use a pen to mark the bevel and adjust the angle until I'm able to grind the markings of. Then I start grinding with the first stone until I get a nice burr and then work my way through the grits. I have 180#, 400#, 800# and 1500# and finish of with a homemade leatherstrop saturated with Tormek stroppingpaste.
I have also experimented with floatglass blanks with 3M self adhesive films. The problem with these is they wear out fast on hard steel. But on softer steel the are really pleasant to use.

I have decided to make my own jig because I can't afford the real deal right now and I can get my own personal preferences on it. And buy good quality stones.
 
Got my Edge Pro 4 with the mail today. I can understand why the EP is quite expensive, the quality is outstanding compared to my old clone.
Just wondering, is it ok to use paraffin-oil on the stones?
 
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