National Id..... Whaaaat?

I

ibear

Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Messages
478
"Your Drivers' License is Now Your
'National ID'

End of Freedom Grows Nearer as Real ID Act is Signed Into Law!

Commentary by Aaron Zelman and Claire Wolf

If you don’t believe what you read below, go to http://Thomas.loc.gov (Don’t put www in front of the http://). In the “Search Bill Text 109th Congress (2005-2006)” box, type in HR 1268; click on “Enter Bill Number”, and then hit the “Search” button. This will take you to a page that lists 6 versions of HR 1268. At the bottom of the list of versions, click on the hotlink version marked [H.R. 1268 ENR]. When you get that screen, page down to “TITLE II – Improved Security for Drivers’ Licenses and Personal Identification Cards.” Click on that link and it will take you to the full text of the Real ID law.

Read it and weep!

On Wednesday, May 11, 2005, America grew nearer to becoming a true police state when President Bush signed HR 1268 (The Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act for Defense, the Global War on Terror, and Tsunami Relief, 2005 Bill with the Real ID Act tucked neatly inside in bill) making it Public Law No: 109-13.

And guess what? Your U.S. Senators voted -- unanimously, with no discussion -- to create a national ID card.

The Real ID Act blackmails state governments into turning their drivers’ licenses into a draconian tool of the federal homeland security apparatus. If states refuse, their citizens lose such ‘privileges’ as being allowed to board an airplane, enter a federal building, or apply for Social Security.
 
At least they aren't yet trying to force us to take the inserted chip like a bunch of cattle. That day will come soon enough though and I and mine will not take it.

Ice
 
At least they aren't yet trying to force us to take the inserted chip like a bunch of cattle>>>>> Green Ice

The Dip is free, the chips are extra.


>>>>>>>>

Give 'em time- they'll get to the chips, and we'll be begging them to do it under the banner of Safety.


munk
 
I think I had better read Mrostov's backpacking posts again...


:(


Tom


Winston Churchill said-

"Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win
without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure
and not so costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to
fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for
survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is
no chance of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as
slaves."
 
WAIT TILL YOU HAVE BOMBS IN YOU COUNTRY EVRY MONTH FOR 20 YEARS .

THEN YOU CAN COMMENT FROM AN INFORMED PLACE.

YOU DONT KNOW HOW LUCKY YOU ARE.

YOUVE HAd terroism a couple of times.

WE LIVE WITH IT EVRY WEEK.

TAKE THE ID CARDS NOW!

KEEP THE BOMBERS OUT!

KL.
 
sounds like a case for more border securirty , rather than not bieng able to identify the strangers in your midst.

Anyone for flying lessons?

remember?

kl.
 
munk said:
Ibear, I'm going to tell them your real name is Ibear.



munk
Click to expand...
Please don't, they might permanently implant that name on my chip!

GAAAAAAWD AWFUL STEP IN THE WRONG DIRECTION, WASN'T IT?

iBear
 
kukrilove said:
WAIT TILL YOU HAVE BOMBS IN YOU COUNTRY EVRY MONTH FOR 20 YEARS .

THEN YOU CAN COMMENT FROM AN INFORMED PLACE.

YOU DONT KNOW HOW LUCKY YOU ARE.

YOUVE HAd terroism a couple of times.

WE LIVE WITH IT EVRY WEEK.

TAKE THE ID CARDS NOW!

KEEP THE BOMBERS OUT!

KL.
Click to expand...
Your point is well taken! That exact point is why I think we are fortunate!

"YOU DONT KNOW HOW LUCKY YOU ARE." - kukrilove

First, understand that I am neither Republican or Democrat.... but, agree in general, that sometimes the Republicans are the lesser of two evils.

Second, I hate killing and war, even though I am a proud U.S. Marine!

Third, I think we are fortunate, for now, to fight terror over there in Iraq rather than here on American soil! If we agree, that the fight with terrorism will occur sooner or later, Yea! even that it is inevitable! Recognize that terrorism started about twenty years ago or so and unfortunately escalated to "Twin Towers" mass destruction on September 11th. This happened, largely because terrorism was never previously confronted and sufficiently dealt with, when it had little resources and support!

Now we have to deal with it, somehow! I say we should continue to make it happen now and let it happen over there, rather than here!

Pulling out of Iraq is a fools move! Pull out and do what? Wait patiently for the terrorists to attack here again? If you want life to go on as you know it... MAKE NO MISTAKE, this evil must be dealt with..... OR, would it be wise to wait for them to show up here.... and then we could blame President Bush because they did!

The United States has often been severely criticized for policies that are apparently attracting terrorist to Iraq. Understand, that the terrorists have to recruit elsewhere because the Iraqi people have deserted their cause. The Iraqi people are tired of being blown up by the terrorists!

I think we will fight them… one way or the other, like it or not, sooner or later, there in Iraq or here on American soil. To attract terrorism there, to tie up their finances and resources in Iraq, is sheer genius... if we eventually build a strong ally in the process and..... we also win the war!

That makes sense!
iBear
 
kukrilove said:
sounds like a case for more border securirty , rather than not bieng able to identify the strangers in your midst.

Anyone for flying lessons?

remember?

kl.
Click to expand...
Border security makes sense!

Thanks,
iBear
 
munk said:
At least they aren't yet trying to force us to take the inserted chip like a bunch of cattle>>>>> Green Ice

The Dip is free, the chips are extra.


>>>>>>>>

Give 'em time- they'll get to the chips, and we'll be begging them to do it under the banner of Safety.


munk
Click to expand...
It wouldn't be a national ID card — sort of… Ahhhh not really, would it?

The Department of Transportation, acting on instructions from Congress, has begun work with states to develop electronically smarter drivers' licenses that can be checked for validity across the country, and that have more than just than that always awful picture, like a fingerprint or retinal-scan imprint — to match the card to its holder.

So it's more of a national ID system, a linking of Departments of Motor Vehicles — and the records they keep on you — across state lines, with some extra on-card security measures thrown in.

For terrorists on the run (and other criminals, too, but nobody worries about them any more) the plan means that a state trooper in California would be able to pull the records of a driver from Georgia — and be certain that those records were the driver's, and not an innocent look alike he stole the card from.

The standardized databases would save the California state trooper a phone call to Atlanta; he'd be able to run a nationwide check from his car.

And the smarter cards, "hardened" with biometric data, would make identity theft much trickier, at least in person. (Georgia, incidentally, already uses thumbprints on its drivers' licenses.)

The plan, Congress hopes, will be cheaper and easier to implement, and less likely to incur the talk-show ire of civil libertarians and states' rights purists (the same type who squawked in 1908 when the FBI was born). But the approach is mere stealth — 50 different state ID cards all linked together is pretty much the same as one national ID card, just as all those new quarters are still worth 25 cents each, no matter which state is on the back.
Big Brotherly love?

For some, the real problem with smarter, more centralized ID cards is that they give bureaucrats a better chance to screw up more of your life when you accidentally get put into the Big Computer as, say, a serial flasher.

For others, it's that the federal government can punch a few keys and trace your steps. But, they can do that already, can’t they?

(Remember when Ken Starr subpoenaed the list of books Monica Lewinsky bought at a D.C. bookstore with an ordinary credit card?) With a nationalized driver's license/ID card — whether it says "New York State" or "United States" — it'll just be easier.

The great leap forward from, a longer arm for the law, to a police state, will have to be made by the private sector.

How well a watchful federal government will actually be able to track its citizens will depend on how many places demand to see your driver's license. Airports already do. So do some supermarkets, if you're buying beer.

But what about malls? Movie theaters? Sports stadiums? Banks and their ATMs? If all the places you go demand a swipe to weed out terrorists — and we are willing to pay for the technology to do the swiping — then…. yes, Big Brother could know where you go and what you do while you're there.
Thanks,

iBear
 
Green Ice said:
At least they aren't yet trying to force us to take the inserted chip like a bunch of cattle. That day will come soon enough though and I and mine will not take it.

Ice
Click to expand...
The real concern: The national ID-card issue to really fight about may be when and whether citizens will be required to carry them. The average American driver's license gets a pretty good workout these days — certainly far more than traffic laws themselves would seem to warrant — but you can only get arrested for driving without one. If the U.S. domestic response to terrorism starts to resemble Zimbabwe's, which passed a law in November making it compulsory to carry ID on pain of fine or imprisonment, well, that's something to worry about.

But until Congress passes a law like that — and until you can't enter a movie theater without the usher checking you for priors — there isn't all that much to get exercised about. Most of the privacy rights — if there really are such things — vulnerable to a nationalized ID card have already been trampled under the wheels of increased security, more efficient law enforcement and better business long ago. Most of them can be regained simply by paying cash and keeping your fingerprints off the murder weapon.

While proponents of national ID cards will contend that such concerns are overblown, there is no denying that a national ID card could become the equivalent of a domestic passport that citizens are required to produce for the most routine daily tasks.

The other serious problem with national ID cards is more practical: They probably won't work. Consider how easy it is to forge a driver's license in America today. Who will be issuing these cards? If everyone is required to have one, then that means there will be a whole lot of bureaucrats responsible for collecting and filing our personal information.

Where will all this data be kept? Perhaps, a National Data Base of Private Citizen Information! Beyond logistical questions about how that process will work and how much it will cost, it raises concerns about potential fraud and abuse.
Thanks,

iBear
 
Societies give up their freedoms in the name of 'safety' and freedom, not understanding you can't gain one by forgoing the other.

A chip would have to include a GPS tracker.
I'm against it, but it will come, and the usual suspects will be asking for it- Right and Left, as even my friend Hollow would agree. On the Law and Order Right- it good to keep on eye on the suspects; on the Mommy State Left, we want Mommy to take care of us....

You ever notice the far right and far left might almost agree on this one thing; we'd all be safer in jail...er, I mean, government housing with free daycare...


munk
 
munk said:
Societies give up their freedoms in the name of 'safety' and freedom, not understanding you can't gain one by forgoing the other.

A chip would have to include a GPS tracker.
I'm against it, but it will come, and the usual suspects will be asking for it- Right and Left, as even my friend Hollow would agree. On the Law and Order Right- it good to keep on eye on the suspects; on the Mommy State Left, we want Mommy to take care of us....

You ever notice the far right and far left might almost agree on this one thing; we'd all be safer in jail...er, I mean, government housing with free daycare...


munk
Click to expand...
Funny, funny.... NOT!

VERY UNFORTUNATE... in a sad, sick sort of way!

iBear
 
Remember the scene in "The Graduate" where the guy says, "I just have one word for you, PLASTICS."



I just have one word for you.

Biometrics.

You are your own ID chip.
 
munk said:
Societies give up their freedoms in the name of 'safety' and freedom, not understanding you can't gain one by forgoing the other.

munk
Click to expand...

Really. I'd much rather risk some terror than fight more wars or letting big brother in my life more.

What people have said, strengthing borders, protecting vulnerable areas would do more than national ID.

If I was a bad guy I'd come up thru Mexico.
 
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

-Benjamin Franklin​
 
I believe that GPS chips are embedded in cell phones and many vehicles (at least the ones with OnStar). The government wants emergency services to be able to locate you when you call 911 but are unable to give them a location.

I'm sure that's part of the reason for having the chips in there.

There are already companies springing up which allow concerned parents or managers to track their children/employees. This was found searching Google: http://www.accutracking.com/
 
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