Navy Seal friend & team uses Daniel Winkler knives and Tomahawks. Why?

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Landon7

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For some reason many Seals use Daniel Winkler knives, tomahawks, etc. I've noticed that Daniel Winkler's knives are pretty pricey. How does the metals he uses in his knives compare to newer modern CPM metallurgy? I was thinking about getting him an HTM gunhammer before deployment but don't know if it would be of much use since he already has the Winkler. Any info on this to bring me up to speed would be greatly appreciated.
 
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We prefer to place questions comparing different manufacturers in General Knife Discussion, which is also a good forum choice for steel comparisons.
 
Because Winklers are uber cool and oh-so stylish. :p

I don't know why SEALs would use this or that, and most SEALs aren't knife nuts anyways and would just use whatever seemed to work well (we just had a thread about a SEAL recommending a SOG Desert Dagger)... at hundreds of dollars a pop, I suspect "many" SEALs using Winklers would be a big overstatement.
 
It's not just the steel that makes a good blade, design and edge geometry are very important for specific purpose knives & axes. Daniel Winkler tools are designed to give their users utter confidence in their function & reliability, especially in dangerous situations such as entry ops and CQB. One of the members here on BFC has written about using his Winkler 'hawk to "perforate" a drug cartel gunman, who was wearing body armor.

If you want to give one to your friend before he deploys, you'd better check the wait period.
 
Nice knives but pricey. I would be curious of the criteria that the seal or team used to select those knives or maker. I mean at what point does a $600 stabbing thing offer you better than a $400 stabbing thing. How do these guys afford them?
 
X_shooter said:
Nice knives but pricey. I would be curious of the criteria that the seal or team used to select those knives or maker. I mean at what point does a $600 stabbing thing offer you better than a $400 stabbing thing. How do these guys afford them?
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I believe, that the supply divisions of the various teams have latitude over what gear (knives, tools) they can issue to members. It probably has to do with the amount of "money" left in the budget, considering all of the other expenditures they incur. I bet it can vary wildly between different commands, from issued $30.00 Gerber MT's, to $500.00 custom pieces.
 
Landon7 said:
I want to get my long time friend into possibly better knives. For some reason many Seals use Daniel Winkler knives, tomahawks, etc. From my research, being a metal newb, I can see that HTM blades and processes seem to be better than Benchmade (standard for most military units), etc. I've noticed that Daniel Winkler's knives are pretty pricey but his metals may not be as high tech (I guess that is what I am trying to get at). Are HTM fixed blades better metal or is the process better than that of Winkler? I want to send him a gift before he deploys. Possibly a fixed blade from HTM (if they make any, I have not looked into it yet). Any info on this to bring me up to speed would be greatly appreciated.
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Metal doesn't need to be high tech in order to be effective. Mr. Winkler makes absolutely outstanding products that are incredibly well made, intuitive and user friendly. They're all very well thought out. If memory serves, the metal he uses is 5160 which is a great steel for knives of the WinklerII series intended use. Seems to be pretty easy to sharpen in the field and the coatings he puts on holds off corrosion really well. I carried a Winkler Belt Knife through my tour in Eastern AFG last year. It held up awesome and I bought mine (military discount directly from Mr. Winkler) personally. As stated before too, SEAL units aren't exactly hard up for money. They get all the good toys. If they want Winkler knives then somebody did their homework. In my opinion it really doesn't get much better thank Winklers. But again, that's my opinion.
 
Landon7 said:
I want to get my long time friend into possibly better knives. For some reason many Seals use Daniel Winkler knives, tomahawks, etc. From my research, being a metal newb, I can see that HTM blades and processes seem to be better than Benchmade (standard for most military units), etc. I've noticed that Daniel Winkler's knives are pretty pricey but his metals may not be as high tech (I guess that is what I am trying to get at). Are HTM fixed blades better metal or is the process better than that of Winkler? I want to send him a gift before he deploys. Possibly a fixed blade from HTM (if they make any, I have not looked into it yet). Any info on this to bring me up to speed would be greatly appreciated.
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Likely because they like them and or their buddies have them.
 
SEALs carry a $65,000/unit night vision gear, you think they can't afford a $500 knife? As someone said previously they have pretty good budgets for all sorts of gear.
 
If your friend is a Navy SEAL why don't you ask HIM why he carries a Winkler?

And I wouldn't make the assumption that the Navy SEALS have an unlimited budget to buy whatever they want. Just like the CIA and FBI and every other vital government agency or military unit, I feel safe in assuming that even the Navy SEALS have to answer to government bean-counters when it comes to spending. And having a specific and limited budget I would imagine that the SEALs would want to spend as much as possible on the equipment that is of the most vital importance (aircraft, communications, night-vision, etc, etc). And when the powers that be in the SEALs have to decide between spending thousands of dollars on knives or spending those same thousands of dollars on better communications equipment, well, I think they would be happy with surplus Kabars.

Of course I'm not a Navy SEAL and I don't work for any agency or department responsible for supplying them. If there are any Navy SEALs here or anyone who works for them, feel free to correct my assumptions.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if individual Navy SEALs buy their own knives based on personal finances, personal taste, personal need, and recommendations from peers. And then of course there's the possibility that they get their knives for FREE because the maker wants to be able to advertise their products as being "Carried by Navy SEALs". But I would imagine that many SEALs, especially the single ones, can afford to buy their own knives.
 
Hypothetically speaking, if I did a tour in a Special Mission Unit, we never really discussed brands of knives. Of course this goes back a few years. I had (and still have) a Tekna dive knife, and know nothing about it, other than it is sharp and waterproof and quick release from the holder. We were more interested in guns, and what civilian brands of boots caused the fewest blisters.
 
I asked here because you guys are generally more knife savvy. I think he carries it because someone on the team carries it and probably gave a quick reason why but my question, if it came out right, was more along the lines of is there anything better than Winkler II for the money that HTM makes?
 
Winklers are pricey but Darrell isn't giving his knives away, either. I've got a few older Darrell Ralph folders, truly fine titanium handled integral locks, that suit me nicely. But Winklers are designed for the wilds, and HTM are more finesse. There are no "best" knives, of course, just knives that suit a particular need at a particular time and place.
 
I would ask your friend. Knives, guns and other gear, can be a very personal choice. A knife that someone here recommends, may not be something he would like, or choose.
 
Exactly. The classic example is some proud dad asking what he should send his boy off to Basic with, a Ka-Bar, a Strider? Neither. They won't let him have a knife until he gets to his first assignment, and he better ask there what's allowed.

What do most guys use? A multi-tool. I carried a SAK back in the 60s. After a multi-tool, I would think a Strider SnG or a small fixed blade could be useful. What do most special operators ask for? More ammunition.

Also, given the general mindset among makers, serving military often get a deep discount, which changes the equation. Then they come back home and say their old sodbuster got more use than any of the "tacticals".
 
I've had several friends who were what I guess we would call "operators" and some of them did some pretty hush hush type stuff. One in particular. He was a Marine (in the Army now). Anyway, he carried his issue KA-BAR and a Gerber folding knife because that's what they gave him. He seemed much more interested in his rifle than anything else though. He did keep his Gerber sharp for opening MREs. ;)
 
It is probably really simple. Someone who WAS into knives had one. A SEAL saw it, realized that it was uber high quality, worked awesome, held up to hard use & was ergonomic & simply worked & worked well. He makes some very high quality stuff. Others do as well. There are many makers out there that people trust their life to every single day.

I was also in the US Army. I was a nobody, just a truck driver. I did however manage to break 3 Ontario issue bayonets & more than one Marine issue KaBar. They broke doing things that should NOT have caused them to break, at least IMHO anyways (i was NOT throwing them, ever). Those blades IMHO are a piss poor choice to give our troops. There are MANY American made blades that are MUCH stronger & MUCH more durable. The BK&T/KaBar BK-7 comes to mind, as do some of the Ontario Spec-Plus series & ESSE's. The price on some of those are comparable to the current issue. Our troops deserve better.
 
When I was active duty no one in the Teams realy cared about knives so long as they were SHARP. Out of 110 men only 2 had a Randall made knife that I know of, me being one. I had a Buck Nemo but it was too heavy and I shit canned that knife. A third of the people I knew had Gerbers bought on base. Mad Dog was just starting to get noticed. The Mk 2 Kabar or Camillus did just fine for most of our work.

You can go here, log in & ask more questions

http://www.socnet.com/forumdisplay.php?f=37
 
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I'm guessing that the SEALs like the Winkler stuff because it carries well and works for what they need it for. I'm also guessing that they care more that a knife is grippy, has a versatile sheath that retains well and provides fast accessability, and cuts what they need to cut, way more than they care that it is made from the latest supersteel and has tacticool blood grooves and other nonsense.

The truth is that, in the real world where knives are used, it doesn't matter what kind of steel is used after a certain point. Go to ESEE's webpage and look at the knives they give to people in the Amazon, where they daily clean fish and behead 'gators and do whoknowswhat else with them. It doesn't matter that the knives are 'only' 1095 steel, it works just fine.

I paid a lot of money for my S35VN Bravo 1 because I wanted a stout knife I could sweat on and not worry about rusting, but it wouldn't be the end of the world if I had to 'make do' with 1095 or A2 and have a rusty knife that cuts great.
 
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