New CPM Steel: Magnamax?

Thaks to all for these helpful explanations. Not a steel nerd myself and so need it in short sentences with small words.

It will be interesting to see which production makes adopt MagnaMax as a standard as a few (many?) premium makers have done with MagnaCut.

I see the potential for a confused knife buying public and some upheaval iin the industry .
I do not view this as bad mind you; just see an interesting near-future.

Surely, some Youube smith will try a pattern welded project from both steels, just for the clicks.
 
A random thought: Where does the 4440 family of steels fall on that chart of toughness vs edge retention and hardness?

I didn't see that on the chart.
 
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I see the green rectangle on the lower left. As I read the chart,. 440 steels are not that impressive anymore in comparison to other commonly used knife steels.

With so many other good-enough to great performing formulations now on the stainless chart,, who still uses 440 steels today?
 
oldmanwilly said:
I thoroughly enjoy K390, at least as presented by Spyderco. To me it's tough enough and easy to sharpen, but seems to keep a keen edge forever. The chance to obtain knives in what is essentially a stainless version of K390 sounds almost too good to be true.
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I use my K390 Dragonfly regularly. It's still sharp as it came the first day I got it over a year ago. I've never even had to touch it up.
 
VorpelSword said:
I see the green rectangle on the lower left. As I read the chart,. 440 steels are not that impressive anymore in comparison to other commonly used knife steels.

With so many other good-enough to great performing formulations now on the stainless chart,, who still uses 440 steels today?
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Which 440 steel? I believe 440c is very different from 440v (s60v), for instance.
 
SCTorrero said:
Which 440 steel? I believe 440c is very different from 440v (s60v), for instance.
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Well, I don't really know what I mean . . .I don't know what constitutes the 440 family of steels, just what I get from these threads really.

What are the most commonly used 440 steels in knife making.? I have often heard 440C mentioned and at least one other 440 with a following letter designation, perhaps B or D (but don't recall). Why are they used, and do they fall into the green box indicated on the chart above?
 
VorpelSword said:
Well, I don't really know what I mean . . .I don't know what constitutes the 440 family of steels, just what I get from these threads really.

What are the most commonly used 440 steels in knife making.? I have often heard 440C mentioned and at least one other 440 with a following letter designation, perhaps B or D (but don't recall). Why are they used, and do they fall into the green box indicated on the chart above?
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The end of this article describes a bit of their development. They were created in the 30s and 40s as improved versions of some of the earliest stainless steels, with more carbon and chromium giving them better hardenability and edge retention with the same corrosion resistance.

As to why they continue to see use today, probably a combination of complacency, familiarity, and cost. 440C seems to have a little more edge retention than where I marked, but you get the gist. It's rather obsolete in all aspects.
 
Synov said:
As to why they continue to see use today, probably a combination of complacency, familiarity, and cost. 440C seems to have a little more edge retention than where I marked, but you get the gist. It's rather obsolete in all aspects.
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Thanks. That really clarifies things for me.

While specifically ignorant and not formally informed, I have had that inpression of obsolescence regarding 440C in knife making. I first developed this nagging suspicion when twenty plus years ago when shopping for a serious "combat" knife for an active duty Marine. At that time, I viewed cost as secondary to suitability and quality. In my ignorance, I bought knives based on reputation, historic tradition and lastly, on modern technical innovation. Among my buying decisions were a "modern" reincarnation (D2) of the iconic USMC fighting knife, the so-called Ka-Bar. Again, based on historic usage I acquired two Ek daggers (Chrome-Vanadium ?). Based on reputation, I got him a Randall "All Purpose Fighter" (440C I think). At that time, Chris Reeve was introducing military oriented knives in technology pushing high alloy steels. I bought a "Green Beet", then offered in S30V.

As I said, cost was a secondary consideration. I wanted to give that Marine every chance of coming home in whatever small way I could.

Now, some twenty years and more later on, even S30V is considered to be less capable in terms of being a high-performance steel. After being gently schooled here on knife steels, their compositions and performance parameters. I am genuinely shocked to find that the commonly used 440C while at the lower-left corner of the chart yet is still being used by well-known premium knife makers.
 
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VorpelSword said:
Thanks. That really clarifies things for me.

While specifically ignorant and not formally informed, I have had that inpression of obsolescence regarding 440C in knife making. I first developed this nagging suspicion when twenty plus years ago when shopping for a serious "combat" knife for an active duty Marine. At that time, I viewed cost as secondary to suitability and quality. In my ignorance, I bought knives based on reputation, historic tradition and lastly, on modern technical innovation. Among my buying decisions were a "modern" reincarnation (D2) of the iconic USMC fighting knife, the so-called Ka-Bar. Again, based on historic usage I acquired two Ek daggers (Chrome-Vanadium ?). Based on reputation, I got him a Randall "All Purpose Fighter" (440C I think). At that time, Chris Reeve was introducing military oriented knives in technology pushing high alloy steels. I bought a "Green Beet", then offered in S30V.

As I said, cost was a secondary consideration. I wanted to give that Marine every chance of coming home in whatever small way I could.

Now, some twenty years and more later on, even S30V is considered to be less capable in terms of being a high-performance steel. After being gently schooled here on knife steels, their compositions and performance parameters. I am genuinely shocked to find that the commonly used 440C while at the lower-left corner of the chart yet is still being used by well-known premium knife makers.
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I think to help you more to understand things...
Knife Geometry is really all that is important. If you want to break it down to simplist things
The saying geometry cuts.....

Steel type, only matters for how long that is possible.
Heat treating is the least important of the 3 variables.

We as knife lovers want to chase the best...I'm guilty of that too.
But I know enough not to worry that much.
I enjoy the variety of steels.

D2, 400C, O1, & AEB-L can all still make great knives.
 
Larrin said:
They are very similar (10V and K390). I said I compared it to 10V to Crucible because that is what they would be most familiar with. Heat 1 was closer to 10V toughness-wise and Heat 2 was closer to K390. Edge retention was closer to K390. But we are splitting hairs; I put 10V, K390, and Vanadis 8 in the same “category” of products.
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I have always called it the A11/10V class of steels. I can't tell the difference between 10v and K390 in cutting or sharpening unless one or the other is 3 or more points of hardness lower meaning different heat treat. They are nice all around performers. The thought of a stainless version of that is pretty exciting to me as I have had pitting trouble with K390 during july/august here in NC when there is no way to stop sweating in the daily 93-95 degree high humidity temps. I always get the Cruwear or even VG 10 versions of my Enduras out for carry outside the house. With Magnamax it sounds as if I won't have to and I like that idea.
 
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