New latch concept

E

epigram79

Joined
Sep 29, 1999
Messages
547
Well, I was thinking about latches and how to improve them last night. So far I like what MT has done with the detent sort of thing. But being that I'm more of a user than solely a flipper, I was trying to think up a type of latch that doesn't get in the way when using. What I've noticed is that for using a bali, in the open and latched position, I prefer it with the manila style. I'm less likely to pop the latch open and it seems to not get in my way as much, when using it, in that configuration.

But for getting the thing opened, I like the batangas style. That's what I'm used to and it's a lot easier for me to manipulate it that way. But once it's opened, the latch seems to feel like it's in the way while using the knife.

What I thought was: Why not have the latch lock in the center of the handle? In other words, the handle that the latch locks onto would have a notch cut out of it in the center. Instead of the latch locking on the end of the handle like BM, MT, etc...it would lock inside and flush. And the sides of the latch could be knurled so as to provide some traction to release the latch.
This is somewhat similar of an idea to the old plastic handled fishing butterflies that had a cheesy ring-type latch. I'm sure Chuck or someone else has a picture of one of those bali's for a visual example.

Let me know what you all think.

Also, let me know if this has been done already. I'd really like to see an example if it has.
 
I've thought about this concept alot and although I like it I don't think it would be fast enough on the draw. I'm not just saying for tactical purposes I personally just like to get the thing open and flipping in a matter of microseconds.
 
One other thing I've been thinking a little bit about (not thinking seriously, though, but), is to shape the handles (and perhaps the latch too, if neccesarry (how the hell is that word spelled??! :mad: ) so that when the latch comes in the way of the handle, it will simply be forced to pop outta the way. Let me try to give you a clearer picture.

Imagine the handles look something like this:

  _     _____ ___
 / \   |__L__| o |
/   \        |   |
|   |        |   |
| H |        | H |
|   |        |   |


(H stands for handle, L stands for latch.)
When the handle swings up, and the latch comes in the way, it SHOULD be forced to pop up, and allow the handle to finish its swing. (But like I said, I haven't really thought about this very hard, so I'm not sure if it would work... Some of you would probably know better.)

edit: sorry for all the messups, I'm still trying to fix that 'ascii-art' thingy... Why has this forum crap all of a sudden started to cut out hard spaces?! :mad: :mad:

edit2: My gawd, that sure took some time! :D Hope you understand what I mean, or else all this would be meaningless. ;)
 
Ixpfah, I've been thinking about something like that too. Rounding the edges of the handle and the inside part of the latch. It would have to work sort of like a door latch so that when it hits it slides off, but when it locks it locks tight. So you'd need both a rounded top but also a little detent.
 
Pardon the crudity of my drawings, but I was working fast.

newlatchidea.jpg

As pictured here, the latch would move inside the handle, very close to the outer edge of the handle so the blade would not hit it while latch is locked open. The premise is, the latch would click-lock open or closed with very small bearings (4) embedded in both sides of the latch and it would move freely within the "Bearing channel". The 4 bearings in the latch channel would keep the latch from "flopping around".

newlatchidea_03.jpg

newlatchidea_02.jpg


Then the two bearings near the head of the latch would click in to place when the knife was locked closed. There would be two "Bearing Holes" in the safe handle to ensure a tight lock, on top of the "Squeeze Shut" feature of any good bali.

Only problem I ran into while conceiving this is maybe the blade would hit the latch while "locked open". and also, it might be hard to pull latch out while "Locked Open" if the bearings and channel are too tight.

What do you think? Too complicated? I figure, with modern machinery, something like this might be possible.
 
I was in Darrel Ralph's shop last night, and I drew out for him the exact same idea!

If you had the idea more than 18 hours ago, then you had it 1st, we were just brainstorming, and I came up with it.

Nevertheless it is a sound idea, but it has some problems (which you have spelled out).

:cool:
GHEN
 
Originally posted by ixpfah
, if neccesarry (how the hell is that word spelled??! :mad: )
Click to expand...

necessary

Just remember "c" comes before "s" (just like in our alphabet), and it stands alone.

GHEN
 
The oversize bali I have is only latched on one side of the blade, but it latches in the middle.

I like the retractible latch idea, though..
 
Jeff: One more issue to consider with your sliding latch; if the latch pivot is not place in the center of the handle, you would then have issue with the differential lockup lengths between the opening handle relationship, and the closed handle relationship. Which means you either have to swing the bearing channel towards the middles of the handle, instead of one side; or you'll have to undercut the receive handle by the amount of material to allow the latch to engage properly, in your example in the closed position.
 
YES!!! Blade_420, that's what I'm talking about! I wasn't picturing a blade protruding from the end of the handles, but it's the same idea. Why do you think this style latch has not become more common. It seems that it would be less obstructive don't you think?
 
Yeah, but probably also a lot less solid than the current one. Just read what Tony said.
A standard CCC latch would probably be stronger. ;)
But perhaps when done right, it wouldn't be the worst alternative... :)
 
Originally posted by ixpfah
Just read what Tony said. A standard CCC latch would probably be stronger. ;)
Click to expand...
Did I say that??? I don't remember saying anything like that. The only rule I mentioned was that if you are going to offset the pivot for the latch, you'll need to account for the differential in distance that the offset creates. The reason most latches are installed in the middle of the handle is because it is equidistant to either handle end for lock up duty. There is no rule that says the latch can't only engage one handle, in the middle. That rule applies to the model Andy is showing.

It is best to engage both sides of the handles, as this provides the most surface area for frictional contact, which can be easily overcomed with a good detent system for a better/solid lockup. Still, the strength of the latch isn't all that critical in the function of a bali. Why else would I love latchless so much (it's such a small sacrafice).
 
Thanks blade420, I can't seem to post any pictures in here. The balisong pictured above is from Sweden and has a really strange spring latch that catches on that little notch, It latches tight, but don't expect to do any fancy moves with this one. It always snaps down in line with the notch and hits it instead of popping up like im thinking it would have done had it been made anywhere else. lol. just kidding, cool idea taking it a step further with the door latch idea. The blade is marked KNIVFABRIKEN,and underneath that is BNORJO? i think... AND STAINLESS STEEL SWEDEN ON THE OTHER SIDE. Both stamped on the blade, not the tang. It appears to be a fishing knife. It was sold to me as a balisong from the 30's or 40's. Can anyone tell me more about it. Or how old it really is? Thanks again blade 420 for your help!!!
 
Knivfabriken is swedish for 'the knife factory. I'm not sure what you mean by the second word, but could it be something like 'Björnsjö' or something? (I've read something like this about Knivfabriken before...) Anyway, it's probably a small town or something in Sweden, where it's made...

Thanks for the info. :)


edit: Actually, it's Knivfabriken Gnosjö. I found the thread about this subject, with a link to an article on Chuck's site.
 
Originally posted by ixpfah
Imagine the handles look something like this:

  _     _____ ___
 / \   |__L__| o |
/   \        |   |
|   |        |   |
| H |        | H |
|   |        |   |


(H stands for handle, L stands for latch.)
When the handle swings up, and the latch comes in the way, it SHOULD be forced to pop up, and allow the handle to finish its swing. (But like I said, I haven't really thought about this very hard, so I'm not sure if it would work... Some of you would probably know better.)
Click to expand...
Just found a weak spot with this design... How the hell would you get the latch to get stuck?? :p

I guess some more configuration would be necessary. :D
 
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