Niobium-Alloyed Knife Steels Explained - S110V, S35VN, Niolox, and More

This something the forum has needed for a long time. I remember 5 years ago the constant arguments about what was better between Vanadium Carbides and Niobium Carbides but no one really had anything valuable to share besides bickering. It's Facinating to see the advantages of Niobium alloy in knife steel with the knowledge of "how" and "why." Rather then just because it sounds cooler :D

Very useful, I'll keep my eyes out for that New Niobium steel.
 
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interesting to note that aeb-l (& 13c26) is still the king of stainless toughness for knife / chopper / smaller sword use ... pretty amazing given that it has no Moly, no V, and no Nb

it begs the question, just how can it achieve such great toughness without any of these grain growth inhibiting elements

(edited to add: yes I know its due to the low amount of carbon at about 0.67% : well below the eutectoid point)
 
Thanks, very interesting (although beyond my limited technical understanding:(). I find S35Vn easier to sharpen than S30V; that pinch of niobium makes a significant difference IMHO.
 
dirc said:
interesting to note that aeb-l (& 13c26) is still the king of stainless toughness for knife / chopper / smaller sword use ... pretty amazing given that it has no Moly, no V, and no Nb

it begs the question, just how can it achieve such great toughness without any of these grain growth inhibiting elements

(edited to add: yes I know its due to the low amount of carbon at about 0.67% : well below the eutectoid point)
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It’s not the grain size that gives AEB-L its toughness, as you said it’s the carbides. Adding chromium shifts the position of the eutectoid, however. AEB-L is definitely hypereutectoid. It doesn’t require such high austenitizing temperatures that it really need grain size pinning additions. Perhaps a small Nb addition would help it out, who knows.
 
I was always a little surprised the B70P mule released by Spyderco didn't receive much attention, and in fact still hasn't sold out. I get that it doesn't move the needle like the more extreme alloys, but it seems like a very nice balance of properties for a cutlery steel.

I'm glad I have a couple of the mules, would be great to see it used in a folder.
 
Larrin said:
It’s not the grain size that gives AEB-L its toughness, as you said it’s the carbides. Adding chromium shifts the position of the eutectoid, however. AEB-L is definitely hypereutectoid. It doesn’t require such high austenitizing temperatures that it really need grain size pinning additions. Perhaps a small Nb addition would help it out, who knows.
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Larrin, please post the version of this graph which takes into account higher chromium? What is the actual eutectoid point for aeb-l style steel?
FeC.gif
 
the steel rabbit hole runs really deep... if I read that right, 0% Cr steel has an eutectoid point of 0.75% C in your graph... (vs 0.83% in mine?) -- is the difference due to small amounts of Mo or Mn which are not shown? (or something else?)

and please confirm that 12% Cr steel is at 0.4% C for the eutectoid?
 
Typical eutectoid is around 0.77C, though there is some variation, like you said other alloying elements can shift it slightly. And yes it is around 0.4%C for 12%Cr.
 
Thanks for sharing your work. I’ve read it twice now and most likely will scan through it again.
 
Way above my pay grade and didn't understand a lot of it. Yet a good read, and I now know a bit more about steel. You have a talent for making the general idea laymen friendly and not just spewing data. Very interesting stuff.
 
No man, Thank YOU.

your work is a HUGE benefit to the community. It will trickle not only into custom knives I make but larger companies will use this information to get better performing knives into regular guys hands.

We appreciate it. Keep it up.



Larrin said:
Thanks guys.
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