No alternative to parks 50?

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syvmn

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Hey guys, im getting everything lined up to start producing some great knives and was wondering if there are any alternatives to parks 50. After a search it seems like it is the only "fast" oil.

I want to heat treat 1095 and W2 but parks is difficult to get in small quantities (for startup makers)

Are there ANY alternatives or do all the alternatives compromise the quality of the finished blades?

Thanks for any responses.
 
Houghton has an oil that does the same job and supposedly has a longer "service life"
 
From the reports I've read, Parks #50 still has no match. Close, but not quite. But, I have not seen much on the subject in maybe 6 months, or so. If it were me, at this time, I would buy the #50, and worry about substitutes later. That is assuming you want the best for 1095. If you want it for lesser carbon simple steels, I would think you could use the "almost as goods" very successfully. For speed of cooling, #50 still beats the wannabes, and with 1095, you want it as fast as you can get in oil. Of course, there is another way to look at it. Do you want the best results, or is "good enough", good enough for your desires. Somewhere, not long ago, I saw #50 advertised for around $100.00 for a five gallon bucket. Plus shipping of course. If I see it again, I'll let you know.
 
Maxim's price is more like $80 +shipping. I think I ended up paying ~$120 shipped to NC.

As with everything in knife making, $100 is pretty much the minimum investment, but as that may sound expensive, I can't seem to find much in life anymore that doesn't cost $100 at a time.
 
Canola oil is the best recognized alternative right now. Though it may not be quite as fast as Parks #50,… keep in mind that #50 is too fast for some types of quenches/geometries/steels. The thin cross section of blades inherently cool faster (especially the edge) than thick blocky pieces which Parks #50 was most likely designed for.

I bet there’s a way to get a super fast quench with water soluble oils like DPG (dipropylene glycol). Although I haven’t heard of anyone trying it yet. You'd have to fool around with the oil to water ratio. DPG is fairly cheap and also considered non-toxic.

Here’s a rainbow quench in Parks #50 on 1095 from a student of mine, that went bad,… too fast!

Faster is not necessarily better. "Faster is better" is a myth. :)

The #50 craze is just a passing trend. Hype, IMO.

parks50disaster.jpg
 
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Ive used Parks and Houghton type k, I honestly believe type k is just as fast. To me actually alittle to fast, basically you can quench a knife and in 6 seconds hold it in your hand, thats pretty dern fast. If I had to do it over again I would go with Tuff Quench which is a houghton type G oil, just repackaged with brownells name on it.
 
H20 + NaCl is plenty fast enough for those steels. You may get some cracks if you are not right on the money with your temps though.
 
DO yourself a favor and never quench steel in water, never. That advice will save you money, time, and alot of trouble.
 
I've had repeatable luck with 1095 in 130deg canola, which is inexpensive, reasonably stable, available, low-smoke, high flash-point, and food safe.
That's after breaking three knives (two 1095, one O1) in goop, water, etc.

If you must have precisely known results, there's no substitute for calibrated materials with exhaustive data and controlled processes.

As a hobbyist, I'm so far happy with canola/O1/1095.


-Daizee
 
C.Edmondson said:
DO yourself a favor and never quench steel in water, never. That advice will save you money, time, and alot of trouble.
Click to expand...

"Never" might be a bit too strong, but I see what you're saying. I think water is O.K. with some low carbon steels, tiny blades and bits etc.

... but NEVER quench steel in gasoline!
 
Anyone have RC numbers on canola and 1095? I've used canola in the past for 1080 with good results but I want great results. I will be using thin material (<1/8") and doing the bevels after heat treatment.

Also, does anyone have a line on where to get either the Parks or the Houghton?
 
Tai Goo said:
"Never" might be a bit too strong, but I see what you're saying. I think water is O.K. with some low carbon steels, tiny blades and bits etc.

... but NEVER quench steel in gasoline!
Click to expand...
Tai your right, I have quenched steels into water to harden but they didnt have much carbon in them. I thought I was the only one that knew the water drill bit trick?lol
 
Tai Goo said:
Canola oil is the best recognized alternative right now. Though it may not be quite as fast as Parks #50,&#8230; keep in mind that #50 is too fast for some types of quenches/geometries/steels. The thin cross section of blades inherently cool faster (especially the edge) than thick blocky pieces which Parks #50 was most likely designed for.

I bet there&#8217;s a way to get a super fast quench with water soluble oils like DPG (dipropylene glycol). Although I haven&#8217;t heard of anyone trying it yet. You'd have to fool around with the oil to water ratio. DPG is fairly cheap and also considered non-toxic.

Here&#8217;s a rainbow quench in Parks #50 on 1095 from a student of mine, that went bad,&#8230; too fast!

Faster is not necessarily better. "Faster is better" is a myth. :)

The #50 craze is just a passing trend. Hype, IMO.
Click to expand...

Tai I think part of the reason we don't see much water soluble oil quenching is the associated danger. When a red hot blade hits the quench it can throw up a bunch of steam and now also flamable vapors from the glycol, the ignition being delayed until it seperates, so you might end up with a boom instead of just a bit of smoke and fire.
 
syvmn said:
Anyone have RC numbers on canola and 1095? I've used canola in the past for 1080 with good results but I want great results. I will be using thin material (<1/8") and doing the bevels after heat treatment.

Also, does anyone have a line on where to get either the Parks or the Houghton?
Click to expand...

A buddy of mine had some (3/16 thick) blades tested at Rockwell 63-64. That was without agitation or circulation.
 
Tai Goo said:
A buddy of mine had some (3/16 thick) blades tested at Rockwell 63-64. That was without agitation or circulation.
Click to expand...

Tai, are you serious? Or, are you just doing your "coyote" thing???
 
yoda4561 said:
Tai I think part of the reason we don't see much water soluble oil quenching is the associated danger. When a red hot blade hits the quench it can throw up a bunch of steam and now also flamable vapors from the glycol, the ignition being delayed until it seperates, so you might end up with a boom instead of just a bit of smoke and fire.
Click to expand...

Maybe. I'd be a bit careful at first, just in case,... especially with an edge quench.

I think DPG has a flash point at about 240, a bit higher than Parks, isn't it?

Might be worth a try. I like the idea of being able to adjust the quench speed with water.
 
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