After watching 'The Seven Samurai' again recently, the idea to try and purchase a nodachi has popped into my head. I am wondering if anyone here would know of any sites that would maybe help me find one for sale. I am new to this forum, so this may not be in the right place, if not just let me know where it should be. Thanks for your help in advance
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Nodachi
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Triton
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Well you've come to the right place but unfortunately I don't know if we can help. So far as I know there are no decent production nodachi available. You would have to go full custom and that would mean finding a smith willing to tackle the project. Good luck with that. 
If I'm wrong I'd be happy for someone to correct me.
If I'm wrong I'd be happy for someone to correct me.
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And as an additional note (you may well know this already) no No-Dachi exist. There may be a handful in museums in Japan, but they were certainly a tough thing to wield and not break. Takes a lot more skill to wield a big slasher/slicer thatn the european hacker equivlaent.
With that in mid, I would be that ffew would be able to examine one to make a good repro.
Keith
With that in mid, I would be that ffew would be able to examine one to make a good repro.
Keith
Well, I suppose that is about the answer I was expecting to get. I know that the nodachi was mainly an officers weapon and was quite unpractical in battle. I was just hoping that maybe some company had taken it upon themselves to make a replica of what I find to be a very interesting and cool sword. Oh well, thanks for all your input.
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Till,
For starters, I am unaware of any manufacturers contructing such a beast. However, I could forge you one if you provide detailed specs and info. I'll have to see how big you want to see if my equipment can fit it.
Just e-mail me for any business related questions though.
Second, no-dachi were at one time a highly effective weapon in battle. They were typically and most effectively used in specially trained, lightly armored units. The no-dachi units were trained specifically in the huge weapon to break through other units that fought very tightly packed, like yari-ashigaru and yari weilding samurai. Even against naginata units and sohei. Hope that info helps.
-Jason
For starters, I am unaware of any manufacturers contructing such a beast. However, I could forge you one if you provide detailed specs and info. I'll have to see how big you want to see if my equipment can fit it.
Just e-mail me for any business related questions though.Second, no-dachi were at one time a highly effective weapon in battle. They were typically and most effectively used in specially trained, lightly armored units. The no-dachi units were trained specifically in the huge weapon to break through other units that fought very tightly packed, like yari-ashigaru and yari weilding samurai. Even against naginata units and sohei. Hope that info helps.
-Jason
Triton
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Hmmm I've heard that theory about no-dachi being used like Zwiehanders before but really wonder about it. 1) So far as I know no-dachi were mostly extant at a time when there was no real fighting going on. When times became more troubled later no-dachi quickly disappeard. 2) People don't typically discard and effective weapon but no-dachi were only used for a short period of time. 3) Most no-dachi extant are either in or came from temple collections. This leads me to believe that they were typically offering pieces.
I'm guessing instead of being the Japanese equivalent of the Zwiehander they were probably really the Japanese equivalent of the bearing sword.
I'm guessing instead of being the Japanese equivalent of the Zwiehander they were probably really the Japanese equivalent of the bearing sword.
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Triton,
Excuse me for one minute. I was not proposing a "theory", it is historical fact. I would not and could not offer advice on such things if it were erroneous information and destroy my personal integrity and credibility. If you have doubts, than perhaps you should speak to Dr. Stephen Turnbull, an expert on the subject of feudal Japanese warfare. He has even written a few books. If you would prefer, I can also obtain quotes and info from various modern day kenjutsu, iaijutsu and some batto-do practitioners.
Furthermore, the 'field sword' or nodachi, was typically 25% longer in blade length than typcal katana and had been used since ancient times by very strong men. It was worn across the back because of its size. It never became obsolete. It was NOT discarded. It simply was not the average man's weapon.
Some men were especially skilled in its use. Gan-Ryu kenjutsu specializes in teaching no-dachi. Guess who founded it c. 1600AD? Sasaki Kojiro, the man who fought and died in the most famous sword duel in Japanese history. 1612AD... Miyamoto Musashi vs. Sasaki Kojiro. Kojiro fought with no-dachi (forge by Nagamitsu of Bizen FYI). Musashi with an impromptu bokken.
-Jason
Excuse me for one minute. I was not proposing a "theory", it is historical fact. I would not and could not offer advice on such things if it were erroneous information and destroy my personal integrity and credibility. If you have doubts, than perhaps you should speak to Dr. Stephen Turnbull, an expert on the subject of feudal Japanese warfare. He has even written a few books. If you would prefer, I can also obtain quotes and info from various modern day kenjutsu, iaijutsu and some batto-do practitioners.
Furthermore, the 'field sword' or nodachi, was typically 25% longer in blade length than typcal katana and had been used since ancient times by very strong men. It was worn across the back because of its size. It never became obsolete. It was NOT discarded. It simply was not the average man's weapon.
Some men were especially skilled in its use. Gan-Ryu kenjutsu specializes in teaching no-dachi. Guess who founded it c. 1600AD? Sasaki Kojiro, the man who fought and died in the most famous sword duel in Japanese history. 1612AD... Miyamoto Musashi vs. Sasaki Kojiro. Kojiro fought with no-dachi (forge by Nagamitsu of Bizen FYI). Musashi with an impromptu bokken.
-Jason
Epsilon,
Thanks for the additional information on this 'beast'.
If only I could afford to have a nodachi custom made, but firstly, I doubt I could afford such a thing, and secondly I don't have any kind of detailed specs to go off of, though I doubt finding them would be a huge task.
Thanks for the additional information on this 'beast'.
If only I could afford to have a nodachi custom made, but firstly, I doubt I could afford such a thing, and secondly I don't have any kind of detailed specs to go off of, though I doubt finding them would be a huge task.
Triton
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You mean a nodachi like this? :
I think there were nodachi and then there were nodachi. However I would certainly never claim to be an expert on the subject. Therefore I talked to some folks that have researched this sort of thing a bit more thoroughly...
I believe the weapon the man is referring to is the Dai-Katana, an above-average length Katana typically about 5-6" longer than the standard, which tended to be 24-27" in blade length in the Edo period.
The true Nodachi was, I believe, from over 3 feet in blade length to 5 feet, or even more. With the grip it could be well over 6 feet in length. There were indeed styles of swordsmanship training in it's use, but by the Edo period it had pretty much gone by the wayside. It's main use was, I believe, against cavalry, it required two hands as it was not a slim, tapering blade like the cavalry tachi (which could be as long) but a fairly heavy one. As far as quality went, it was apparently often quite poor, owing no doubt to the difficulties encountered in heat-treating this length of blade.
By the edo period, the musket reigned as the anti-cavalry weapon, brought to prominence by Nobunaga against the Takeda clan.
The story I've heard about Sasaki Kojiro is that the sword he carried, Drying Pole, was an old tachi by Nagamitsu with a blade about 3 feet long, or a good 6-8" longer than a normal katana carried at the time. I hadn't heard it was one of the really big Nodachi style pieces.
If I remember my limited Japanese correctly, 'Ganryu' is not the name of a Japanese Sword school, it is an alternate pronunciation of 'Kojiro'. It is also the name of the island on which they fought which still has a marker to the event on it. Sasaki Kojiro did not use a nodachi. I agree with Al that I have read that it was a Nagamitsu tachi. When wearing armor, the nodachi was carried on the back as the only way to carry it for any length of time. It was held at the ready when battle was joined though, not drawn from the back. It was never a very popular weapon as the techniques for using it properly were difficult to learn, and the swords were very difficult to make correctly. As far as I know, the Kage Ryu is the only school in Japan that still teaches the use of the nodachi (which they call choken). Here's a link to Hyakutake Colin's web site, follow the link to the long swords of Yanagawa han... http://www.bunbun.ne.jp/~sword/
Not trying to gang up on you or anything just checking the resources I have available.
I think there were nodachi and then there were nodachi. However I would certainly never claim to be an expert on the subject. Therefore I talked to some folks that have researched this sort of thing a bit more thoroughly...
I believe the weapon the man is referring to is the Dai-Katana, an above-average length Katana typically about 5-6" longer than the standard, which tended to be 24-27" in blade length in the Edo period.
The true Nodachi was, I believe, from over 3 feet in blade length to 5 feet, or even more. With the grip it could be well over 6 feet in length. There were indeed styles of swordsmanship training in it's use, but by the Edo period it had pretty much gone by the wayside. It's main use was, I believe, against cavalry, it required two hands as it was not a slim, tapering blade like the cavalry tachi (which could be as long) but a fairly heavy one. As far as quality went, it was apparently often quite poor, owing no doubt to the difficulties encountered in heat-treating this length of blade.
By the edo period, the musket reigned as the anti-cavalry weapon, brought to prominence by Nobunaga against the Takeda clan.
The story I've heard about Sasaki Kojiro is that the sword he carried, Drying Pole, was an old tachi by Nagamitsu with a blade about 3 feet long, or a good 6-8" longer than a normal katana carried at the time. I hadn't heard it was one of the really big Nodachi style pieces.
If I remember my limited Japanese correctly, 'Ganryu' is not the name of a Japanese Sword school, it is an alternate pronunciation of 'Kojiro'. It is also the name of the island on which they fought which still has a marker to the event on it. Sasaki Kojiro did not use a nodachi. I agree with Al that I have read that it was a Nagamitsu tachi. When wearing armor, the nodachi was carried on the back as the only way to carry it for any length of time. It was held at the ready when battle was joined though, not drawn from the back. It was never a very popular weapon as the techniques for using it properly were difficult to learn, and the swords were very difficult to make correctly. As far as I know, the Kage Ryu is the only school in Japan that still teaches the use of the nodachi (which they call choken). Here's a link to Hyakutake Colin's web site, follow the link to the long swords of Yanagawa han... http://www.bunbun.ne.jp/~sword/
Not trying to gang up on you or anything just checking the resources I have available.
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Sweet,
The only picture that I currently have (on computer) available right now is this tanto. Imagine much longer. ha ha Haven't much around to show off right now.(Sorry) I will have some more pics of a new katana however very soon and will put my new digital camera to use next week for you if you would like and show pics? The tanto in picture was made via stock removal and the fittings were done by a friend. I now forge my Japanese stuff. I only do the steel work though, no fittings. I also only do Japanese stuff.
Triton,
First off, I must apologize if I vented there. Didn't mean to. Anyhow, that would be a Dai-Katana in your pics. That I cannot and would not even attempt to forge. I own The Seven Samurai and feel pretty safe to say that the sword in question would fall into nodachi category. The sword in your picture could be called a nodachi, but I wouldn't.
There still is some gray area on tachi compared to nodachi. Still, nodachi were seen under 4 shaku. Some were bigger, even six feet overall like you said. Some say there is a grey area vs daikatana and a nodachi as well. That is arguable. Daikatana were just damn huge. DAMN huge. THOSE did become an obsolete weapon on the battlefield early on. Sure would like to see one used though! At times there is also gray area between the lengths of tachi and katana. Especially, comparing then and now.
As far as the alternate pronounciation of Kojiro, that I do not know. Gan-Ryu however, is an actual ryu-ha nonetheless. Whether it is still being taught, I am unsure. I think it is. Don't quote me on that though. Yes, Ganryu was also the island. But, it is also a sword style. Relationship? I'm sure. How? You got me.
WORN Triton, worn. I did not say they drew it from that position. Just a place to put it. But... that is talking about nodachi. Take it off your back, then draw it. Kojiro tossed the scabbard to the side actually. Guess that is all you could do really. I believe also, daikatana users had servants carry their sword until it was needed. It was true of jin-dachi at least.
It is at least refreshing to talk good talks about lesser known weapons. Thanks Till!
I'll get off your toes now Triton.
-Jason
Sorry, crappy pic.
Sweet, go here instead...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194144&highlight=Aikuchi
The only picture that I currently have (on computer) available right now is this tanto. Imagine much longer. ha ha Haven't much around to show off right now.(Sorry) I will have some more pics of a new katana however very soon and will put my new digital camera to use next week for you if you would like and show pics? The tanto in picture was made via stock removal and the fittings were done by a friend. I now forge my Japanese stuff. I only do the steel work though, no fittings. I also only do Japanese stuff.
Triton,
First off, I must apologize if I vented there. Didn't mean to. Anyhow, that would be a Dai-Katana in your pics. That I cannot and would not even attempt to forge.
I own The Seven Samurai and feel pretty safe to say that the sword in question would fall into nodachi category. The sword in your picture could be called a nodachi, but I wouldn't.There still is some gray area on tachi compared to nodachi. Still, nodachi were seen under 4 shaku. Some were bigger, even six feet overall like you said. Some say there is a grey area vs daikatana and a nodachi as well. That is arguable. Daikatana were just damn huge. DAMN huge. THOSE did become an obsolete weapon on the battlefield early on. Sure would like to see one used though! At times there is also gray area between the lengths of tachi and katana. Especially, comparing then and now.
As far as the alternate pronounciation of Kojiro, that I do not know. Gan-Ryu however, is an actual ryu-ha nonetheless. Whether it is still being taught, I am unsure. I think it is. Don't quote me on that though. Yes, Ganryu was also the island. But, it is also a sword style. Relationship? I'm sure. How? You got me.
WORN Triton, worn.
I did not say they drew it from that position. Just a place to put it. But... that is talking about nodachi. Take it off your back, then draw it. Kojiro tossed the scabbard to the side actually. Guess that is all you could do really. I believe also, daikatana users had servants carry their sword until it was needed. It was true of jin-dachi at least.It is at least refreshing to talk good talks about lesser known weapons. Thanks Till!
I'll get off your toes now Triton.
-Jason
Sorry, crappy pic.
Sweet, go here instead...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194144&highlight=Aikuchi
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when you get your photo work down post up some better pics and we'll go from there..I take you dont have a site? Also do you attend any shows as a table holder? Any references on or to your work? gotta know what type of craftsmanship Im getting for my years of hard work and eating Ramen Noodles and Kraft Macaroni and Cheese, you understand.
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Sweet,
I am just entering the professional arena. I have been doing this amateur for a few years. I can refer you to my personal favorites or choices in a smith if you wish, if you are more comfortable with that. Website is actually in the process of being built.
You might just want to hold out for my site. I think you will get the best feeling of performance there. It will have cutting photos and some of the processes in making the knives and swords. Quite a lot goes into them. However, I can only make so many swords for personal interest. People want heavy customizable dimensions in investments like that. So, you will see mostly tanto, kaiken and other knives. Wait till you see the "bone cutting pics" to come.
-Jason
I am just entering the professional arena. I have been doing this amateur for a few years. I can refer you to my personal favorites or choices in a smith if you wish, if you are more comfortable with that. Website is actually in the process of being built.
You might just want to hold out for my site. I think you will get the best feeling of performance there. It will have cutting photos and some of the processes in making the knives and swords. Quite a lot goes into them. However, I can only make so many swords for personal interest. People want heavy customizable dimensions in investments like that. So, you will see mostly tanto, kaiken and other knives. Wait till you see the "bone cutting pics" to come.
-Jason
Triton
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Not to worry toes don't feel trodden at all. Like I said I'm nothing approaching an expert when it comes to Japanese swords (or any other sword for that matter) so I'm always learning new stuff sometimes the hard way. When I hear nodachi I automatically think of the monstrosity in that photograph.
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Hmm...into the gray area?
The shouldering swords and field swords (seioi-dachi, nodachi) were both produced primarily in the Nambokucho period, when tachi were being made bigger and more flamboyant than before. The nagasa of such blades could range anywhere up to 5 shaku (just shy of 5 feet, machi to kissaki). While intimidating, Most such swords were not of high-quality manufacture, and their effectiveness and extent of usage is a point of debate. A few of the monstrous pieces like the one Triton posted were made, but it was fairly unlikely that they saw much use in the field, if any at all. They seem to me more geared towards a shrine than a battlefield. Many of the earlier nodachi were later cut down and made into katana.
Dai-katana? The characters for "dai" and "katana" make the word "daito," which is just a long sword or katana in the sense that we know it today (a long time ago, the word "katana" wasn't as specific as it became more recently).
Also, bear in mind that the Kojiro/Musashi fight may not necessarily be all historical truth. I'm not saying the battle didn't happen (it probably did), but the details of it may be somewhere in that fuzzy area between fact and myth. Of course, there is a supposed Ganryu that practices with nodachi, though I personally have never seen a school for it, nor met or heard of any practitioners.
The main reason why nobody makes the big swords is because it would be a pain in the butt to make a good quality one. Particularly the heat treat, as most either don't have the facilities, or they don't have the desire to try doing a blade that long. In addition, they would cost quite a bit more than a katana or tachi as well as being less applicable to conventional sword arts (thus wouldn't sell as well). I don't know how much polishers would want to do a blade that big either.
The shouldering swords and field swords (seioi-dachi, nodachi) were both produced primarily in the Nambokucho period, when tachi were being made bigger and more flamboyant than before. The nagasa of such blades could range anywhere up to 5 shaku (just shy of 5 feet, machi to kissaki). While intimidating, Most such swords were not of high-quality manufacture, and their effectiveness and extent of usage is a point of debate. A few of the monstrous pieces like the one Triton posted were made, but it was fairly unlikely that they saw much use in the field, if any at all. They seem to me more geared towards a shrine than a battlefield. Many of the earlier nodachi were later cut down and made into katana.
Dai-katana? The characters for "dai" and "katana" make the word "daito," which is just a long sword or katana in the sense that we know it today (a long time ago, the word "katana" wasn't as specific as it became more recently).
Also, bear in mind that the Kojiro/Musashi fight may not necessarily be all historical truth. I'm not saying the battle didn't happen (it probably did), but the details of it may be somewhere in that fuzzy area between fact and myth. Of course, there is a supposed Ganryu that practices with nodachi, though I personally have never seen a school for it, nor met or heard of any practitioners.
The main reason why nobody makes the big swords is because it would be a pain in the butt to make a good quality one. Particularly the heat treat, as most either don't have the facilities, or they don't have the desire to try doing a blade that long. In addition, they would cost quite a bit more than a katana or tachi as well as being less applicable to conventional sword arts (thus wouldn't sell as well). I don't know how much polishers would want to do a blade that big either.
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Triton,
I admit to not being an expert either. You spend enough time researching this stuff and you simply soak things in. Right or wrong. I try very earnestly to decipher that information as best as possible. The daikatana name is still sort of up in the air as far as its exact dimensions, contructions style, etcetera. "Big or great sword" doesn't say much about the weapon really. But, at the same time it does. I mean its big and its a sword. Where did you obtain that image of that sword anyway? I thought it was pretty impressive.
Then there are jin-dachi which sort of get lumped together with both daikatana and nodachi by many people. It is difficult to understand all this stuff at times, especially when such weapons (i.e. daikatana) did not see the use and refinement of style and design that say, katana did. If I or we lived back in the day and were the Japanese of the day, we would all better undertand how certain swords got their name and why more specifically.
Robert,
By "grey area" I am referring to people's "expert opinions". I may call one aspect something and you another, but they are both very similar or overlap. That is all I meant.
For example... Daikatana and daito are not the same sword if that is what you are implying? Regardless of their kanji similarities. Correct me if I misunderstood you. Here is another grey area. Daito is referred to by practitioners most accurately, as the larger of the two swords in a daisho. The other of course being shoto. They are general classifications for i.e. katana and wakizashi when paired as a daisho.
-Jason
I admit to not being an expert either. You spend enough time researching this stuff and you simply soak things in. Right or wrong. I try very earnestly to decipher that information as best as possible. The daikatana name is still sort of up in the air as far as its exact dimensions, contructions style, etcetera. "Big or great sword" doesn't say much about the weapon really. But, at the same time it does. I mean its big and its a sword.
Where did you obtain that image of that sword anyway? I thought it was pretty impressive.Then there are jin-dachi which sort of get lumped together with both daikatana and nodachi by many people. It is difficult to understand all this stuff at times, especially when such weapons (i.e. daikatana) did not see the use and refinement of style and design that say, katana did. If I or we lived back in the day and were the Japanese of the day, we would all better undertand how certain swords got their name and why more specifically.
Robert,
By "grey area" I am referring to people's "expert opinions". I may call one aspect something and you another, but they are both very similar or overlap. That is all I meant.
For example... Daikatana and daito are not the same sword if that is what you are implying? Regardless of their kanji similarities. Correct me if I misunderstood you. Here is another grey area. Daito is referred to by practitioners most accurately, as the larger of the two swords in a daisho. The other of course being shoto. They are general classifications for i.e. katana and wakizashi when paired as a daisho.
-Jason
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Epsilon:
Daikatana isn't a sword. It's a misinterpretation of "daito" which is just a long sword. It is not only used to define the longer in a pair, but just a long sword in general. (Addendum: I've also heard O-katana used before to compliment O-dachi, and I am uncertain of the validity of those names...though verbally it may help get the point across if you don't like using English).
A long katana is just that, a long katana. It's still a katana. Want an example?
http://www.antiqueswords.com/bq396.htm
A long tachi is just that, a long tachi. It's still a tachi. If you mount it as a katana, it could be called a katana. I've attached a pic of one whose nagasa is 93cm (over 36 inches). It's not a nodachi, it's a Tachi.
Just because the normal length for swords may be within a certain range, there are lots of suriage and o-suriage swords that fit in that "normal" range. Particularly in the Nambokucho were swords like tachi made longer than normal. As time progressed, people started to favor "shorter" swords. What's a cheap way to make a shorter sword? Cut down a bigger one.
Just some food for thought.
Addendum: couldn't attach the pic (too big) but I found a url for it...
http://nihontobook.homestead.com/files/masamune/kanemitsu1.JPG
Another Addendum: Jindachi was just a style of mounting of tachi.
Daikatana isn't a sword. It's a misinterpretation of "daito" which is just a long sword. It is not only used to define the longer in a pair, but just a long sword in general. (Addendum: I've also heard O-katana used before to compliment O-dachi, and I am uncertain of the validity of those names...though verbally it may help get the point across if you don't like using English).
A long katana is just that, a long katana. It's still a katana. Want an example?
http://www.antiqueswords.com/bq396.htm
A long tachi is just that, a long tachi. It's still a tachi. If you mount it as a katana, it could be called a katana. I've attached a pic of one whose nagasa is 93cm (over 36 inches). It's not a nodachi, it's a Tachi.
Just because the normal length for swords may be within a certain range, there are lots of suriage and o-suriage swords that fit in that "normal" range. Particularly in the Nambokucho were swords like tachi made longer than normal. As time progressed, people started to favor "shorter" swords. What's a cheap way to make a shorter sword? Cut down a bigger one.
Just some food for thought.
Addendum: couldn't attach the pic (too big) but I found a url for it...
http://nihontobook.homestead.com/files/masamune/kanemitsu1.JPG
Another Addendum: Jindachi was just a style of mounting of tachi.