Nodachi

A long katana is just that, a long katana. It's still a katana.
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A long tachi is just that, a long tachi. It's still a tachi.
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Uh, yeah. I never said otherwise. What was your point?

Another Addendum: Jindachi was just a style of mounting of tachi.
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Uh, again, yeah. I never said otherwise.

I said... "Then there are jin-dachi which sort of get lumped together with both daikatana and nodachi by many people." I never stated a definition of jindachi.

Anybody else want to jump on me today? Perhaps you could offer that advice to Till and allow him to pick and choose the info he wishes from those posting. I was helping out Till until my judgement was questioned and so I defended by statement which was orginally not aimed at anybody. So, unless yet another person is going to come along and educate me on Japanese swords, everybody just needs to back off.
 
Relax, don't be so defensive. I think you misinterpreted my tone...I wasn't jumping on you at all. I was clarifying some information (and misinformation) that was posted, and expounding on some so if anyone actually cared (you included), the info would be available. Sorry if it sounded aggressive or anything, that wasn't my intention.

I believe there was a nodachi available for sale through ECMAS not toooooo long ago, but it was an antique and would probably be out of conventional price range. And to reiterate what was already said, no company is making good very long swords (yet).

If you want a basher that's not aesthetically/historically accurate or very good, you could check out Highland Steele (though I haven't heard much of them in recent times). It has a cool presence to it, and could potentially make a cool project sword if ever you wanted to give it a shot. Maybe in the next few years, Hanwei or KC or someone will come out with a production nodachi, though I don't know how wise that would be financially for them (probably sell them on "coolness" factor).

You would have to go custom, and even then most of the conventional makers won't take orders for such pieces.

But I think that all was already covered.
 
Just as a side note I've heard that the guy that ran Highland Steele was killed in a car accident a while back which could explain why they have sort of disappeared off the face of the earth.
 
Im coming late to this discussion but from what I have read and discussed with members of the JSS/US the following is what I have read and been told. The No-Dachi was pretty crudely made, used by footsoldiers and mainly used to de-horse a mounted samurai. It was swung from the shoulder and the reason many are not still around is that they tended to be coarse and utilitarian so not worthy or preservation.

The only differences between a Tachi and a Katana is the mounting AND tachi were signed on the opposite side of the nakago as Katana. They were made in all lengths up to 36 or more inches (nagasa not including nakago) and they were never referred to as a a Dai-Katana which is a modern term like Chisa Katana which also never existed. If its under 24" its a Wakizashi.

I have collected and studied Nihonto for years and love to discuss this stuff, especially with people just getting into it.
 
Well, this thread seems to have dies off a bit, but I'll see what I can do about that.

AKADave, being one of those relative starters you like to help myself, as far as you know, what are the average dimensions for a nodachi of the Nanbokucho Era. And are "Oh-Danbira" and "Danbira" just another name for the same thing. I kinda got the idea where I read it that they are one and the same.
 
Yes O Danbira and Danbira would mean the same thing. "O" meaning great is often an honorific or simply meaning a larger version of a "thing". Some of the definitions that I have seen for Danbira is just a "large wide sword" with no reference to length or form. Some older swords were double edged and straight, mostly cerimonial. For instance I have a wak that is roughly 15" but is mounted as a tanto so it can be called an O Tanto or large tanto. There doesnt seem to be too many rules with tanto and waks. A piece being "Sunobi" would be described as long and would be included in a formal Kantai of the piece.

I do not know the exact dimensions of No-Dachi but blades of 5 or more feet are mentioned. There doesnt seem to be a lot of interest with the hard core sword scholars for some reason. Again they are called coarse and utilitarian pretty much. There were millions and millions of blades made through the millenia and when a samurai swore to a master he would often be given a blade if he didnt have one. These were usually rough and without "art" and are and were referred to as Saiba which is considered junk. Its interesting to note that many if not all the blades that I have had (roughly 50 or so) most were in very good polish without rust and damage even if on the tired side. Not all were great pieces but better than the stuff you would have seen some of the average samurai carrying. Also this suggested that they were not used much but carried a lot. The No-dachi was very specialized and probably was considered "distasteful" like the Tanon or gun was however effective and destroyed or discarded after use.
 
I really wonder about that thing about "they were used by foot soldiers against horsemen." Why in the world would the go to all the trouble and expense of making a mediocre big sword of dubious utility against a horsmen when they could very easily make a very good yari without the expense or effort of construction? The yari would also would not need as much specialized training to use as would a big long sword. It seems counterproductive. The more I check into this stuff the more I think perhaps I was right the first time out. Turnbull's accuracy has also been called into question some places that I have found. Curiouser and curioser.
 
Hawley does list the Nodachi as "A large field sword worn by high officials" in one of the books that I have but in conversations with the JSS/US members they disagree with that assessment. They seem to believe through talking to NBTHK officials during Shinsa that the no-dachi was used to un-seat a rider by whacking the horse. Hey either way its a big blade.

Also it is very plausable that the blade was crudely made. There are many examples of Samurai carrying very elaborately and expensively mounted blades and the blade itself is crap. Remember too that Hawley lists over 30,000 known smiths and not all were good. And there is the possibility that some O-Suriage or cut down blades started life as a no-Dachi but I have never heard that.
 
Oh I'm not doubting you by any means, I'm sure that the people you talked to thought that. I just can't figure out why they would think that. It's just counter intuitive. Did they have some period text or illustration or something?
 
I could check. Its been a while since I ran in those circles, its very very expensive. Some of these guys have access to information that has not been translated and have very close ties with the sword organizations in Japan. Even though I have about 3 grand worth of books and info I still dont have some of the really good info since its not been translated.

I can understand the problem with the no-dachi. Yaki-ire (quenching) is hard enough with a long katana. It would take a lot of very precious tamahagane and be very very hard to make. Some good smiths may not try to do it because of this, since if they failed their rep would be hosed. That was a very important consideration since title was everything. Also they were very frugal. Once the blade served its purpose or if an owner wanted a new sword, the older one would be "recycled" so to speak. This happened a whole lot I am told. There are many tanto out there that are made from the tips of katana or wakizashi, I have one that is almost 500 years old.

Here is something that might give you some perspective. Very early on even before the Tokugawa shogunate there was a practice of giving swords as gifts. Everyone did it. A lot of times the swords were not very good at all and had a gimei (false signature) on it of a famous smith. This was generally known by both parties and accepted in the spirit is was given. There was not attempt to decieve. Proportionately there were not that many good swords as you might think. There are lots of stories of famous swords used in great battles and some were truly awesome or even priceless, like the Inaba Go. That blade was cut down a couple times and even re-tempered since it was burned in a fire. So like I said some of those No-dachi could have been excellent but then were cut down due to style of the day or edicts or whatever. Im sure some survive but I dont know if they were particularly good. I have seen pics of all the "Named Blades" or famous swords in existance and none are no-dachi but some are 3 feet or better.
 
I realize that this thread has been dead for a while, but I thought I'd post a link of something that may or may not be related. Looking around, I found this giant katana. I'm wondering if anyone know's anything about this Rittersteel. All I'm looking for is a wallhanger that is original and fairly nice looking. I like the look of this one, I'm just unsure if that's too much to pay. Maybe someone even knows where I can get a simiar one for cheaper.

Thanks
 
Hello, I think I'm in over my head hear, but what the hay. I have been a fan of the Japanese sword since as long as I can remember. Unfortunately, I can't remember squat about names, and dates (Not just about swords, my whole life). I have always loved the style with longer handles and mid lenth blades. I think they are called Shobu Zukuri Katana's. I was wondering if this post is about those, or possably about an intreging design I remember that basically looked like a Katana with a long blade, and a wraped handle that was about the same langth as the blade. Sorry if I am way off. Most of my names and dates come from the Bugei Trading Co. website, and I don't even know if they make a quality product. Thanks for your time, Reagan
 
Shobu zukuri refers to a blade shape (just like Shinogi zukuri but without Yokote) like Kanmuri Otoshi zukuri, Kissaki moroha zukuri, Hira zukuri, Unokubi zukuri, Osaraku zukuri and the shape we normally associate with the Japanese sword, Shinogi Zukuri. The curve is called Sori, Tori or even curve, Koshi or more curved near the handle and Saki-sori more curve toward the tip. As far as length, a blade that is up to 13 inches can be called a Tanto or ko-wakizashi or even O-Tanto, anything from that to just under 24" is called a Wakizashi and 24" and over a Katana. Some old and well respected sword books will give a blade Katana status if its particularly good or has lost length from shortening etc but as a rule the lengths are held to pretty strictly. I have often read about a "Chisa" katana, one that is under 24" in length. This appears to be a westernized designation since I nor any of the far more knowledgeable people that I know in the field have heard of one.

Have fun
 
As a side not Bugei's stuff is not made by them. There low end stuff is made by Hanwei, and their high end stuff is made by Howard Clark probably one of the top 5 katana makers in the U.S.
 
Thanks for the infomation! I am interested in getting a functional Katana some day in my life. I doubt it would be for many years though. I don't make very much money. The good thing about waiting is I will try and learn as much as possiable so that I know were to buy and what I am paying for. Thanks again, Reagan
 
Hello Reagan,

Nihonto is a great hobby to get into. There is so much to learn. There are lots and lots of unscrupulous types out there selling junk for a premium to people that dont have all the information. Your best bet is to join the JSS/US and/or find one of the many discussion groups on the web and just ask questions. Most will suggest lots of books and you can slowly grow your library and be prepared when the day comes to invest in a blade. Believe it or not you can still find very good old original Japanese swords out there for a reasonable price. They are a pretty decent investment I think and since there are about 1100 terms with regards to swords and sword fittings, there is a lot to study and learn in one sword. Good luck

Dave
 
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