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Notes On Axe Handles

I got this letter yesterday, to illustrate the subjectivity of it all. It's from Sebastian who stops by my place when he's in the area and not at home in Chile. I will pass on a segment where he says he has just returned from the south, near where the forests end and has seen wood the locals use for axe handles. Who knows, it may be the best axe handle wood on the planet by far.:) We can only hold out hope. We can never rule it out or disparage the thought.
 
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Ok, without going into what's behind your question, where it's coming from and where it might be leading me - because it could be a mine field, or it might not - yes it is. I would say it's the only one I can speak with competence, but then again maybe that's the crux of the matter on your mind. That being said, it's not the language I've been surrounded by the last 20 years or so. Maybe I should give more credit to that yellow faced round headed figure, a character of great universality.
 
It would be nice to see testing results for celtis australis. Perhaps the piece you got was exceptional. Solid data with at least a modulous of elasticity and a modulous of rupture might tell us if it's worth pursuing for axe handles.

Other hackberries have some promising numbers.

http://www.wood-database.com/hackberry/

If it grows to sufficient size and doesn't excessively check, twist or warp during drying it may be a great resource for people. More data, even anecdotal, would be nice.
 
I too would be interested in such figures Square_peg, all the while accepting the knowledge from the old-timers who sought out what they called Nettle wood- or its rural French equivalent - as solid enough.
My understanding is it has a pretty sparse growth pattern in its normal habitat on the mountainous Mediterranean parts, that in that area large examples are not common. My colleague who has access to wooded land there will bring it back next time he goes, according to my pointed requests. He stores it up at his workshop to dry in central France and has never mentioned troubles compared with holly, box wood or hop hornbeam.
 
Told you I could stir it up. I have always looked on my ability to stir things up as a gift! (the wife does not agree with that last statement). Can somebody tell me what the hell Ernest said about me ?
 
Square_peg said:
It would be nice to see testing results for celtis australis. Perhaps the piece you got was exceptional. Solid data with at least a modulous of elasticity and a modulous of rupture might tell us if it's worth pursuing for axe handles.

Other hackberries have some promising numbers.

http://www.wood-database.com/hackberry/

If it grows to sufficient size and doesn't excessively check, twist or warp during drying it may be a great resource for people. More data, even anecdotal, would be nice.
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Celtis australis is evidently called "European Hackberry", and this book has a table listing the Modulus of Rupture for "South European Hackberry" as 9810 N/mm2. The Impact Bending value is missing for this species (while Hickory is clearly #1 for Impact Bending, among all the species listed with data).
 
I can tell you what I know about our American Hackberry(Celtis Reticulata). The bow building community considers it Elm's poorer cousin with similar characteristics and many like it. We have it around here and I have never seen any of it I could do anything with. The arid environment its found in seems to make it lay down mostly early spring wood. Some guys from Texas have a very different opinion, sighting its similarity to elm.
 
Square_peg said:
I suspect poplar is used for wedges because of its ability to compress and spring back. In this way a fully compressed poplar wedge is essentially 'spring loaded' to take up the slack caused by shrinkage, weather, humidity, etc. It also seems to have a somewhat coarse grain which help it to grab the inside of the kerf and resist backing out.

Further, a springy wedge may reduce the occurence of cracked eyes during wedging at the factory.
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I like popular wedges. I do believe that handle manufactures are supplying us with wedges cut from reject material though. Far to many of the wedges I get are light, soft and sometimes down right deteriorated.
 
Agent_H said:
*I wish there was more handle worthy wood locally.
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You could try vine maple. Might have to think outside the box for a full size axe handle and not make it from a riven stave. I have made some hatchet handles from it but I just don't have anything big enough for a full size axe. It won't have the abrasion resistance of hickory but just try to break a piece of it some time.
https://plants.usda.gov/plantguide/pdf/pg_acci.pdf
 
Read a pdf called tropical timbers of the world this morning,usda from 1980 it has all kinds of breaking strength and elastic numbers for a lot of trees.In the back they have a chart for what the best uses are and 18 are for tool handles.
 
Old Axeman said:
Can somebody tell me what the hell Ernest said about me ?
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Just this, that I can't accept unequivocal and sweeping claims, ( bound to stir the pot and more),
Old Axeman said:
there is no substitute for American Hickory!
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about something as subjective as handling an axe. There are simply to many variables involved to make factual claims on the subject. An example: I know of an Englishman who will not use hickory for his handles not because they aren't strong and flexible and resilient and all that other good stuff but because of the tactile experience, he simply doesn't like the feel of it in the same way he likes the feel of ash. There you have it. Are we - I also like a hickory handle - going to brush off his experience as not valid? For him - the subjectivity - the important thing is something other than what it is for some other Joe and so on and so forth.... then we've got those farmers down in Patagonia that we know now of since yesterday, who'er laughing at out hickory and keeping the secret all to themselves- the bastards.
 
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Ernest DuBois said:
... then we've got those farmers down in Patagonia that we know now of since yesterday, who'er laughing at out hickory and keeping the secret all to themselves- the bastards.
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Perhaps it's Curupay? It surpasses hickory in some measures:

Curupay
Janka Hardness: 3,630 lbf (16,150 N)
Modulus of Rupture: 28,010 lbf/in2 (193.2 MPa)
Elastic Modulus: 2,617,000 lbf/in2 (18.04 GPa)
Crushing Strength: 13,700 lbf/in2 (94.4 MPa)
http://www.wood-database.com/curupay/

Shagbark Hickory
Janka Hardness: 1,880 lbf (8,360 N)
Modulus of Rupture: 20,200 lbf/in2 (139.3 MPa)
Elastic Modulus: 2,160,000 lbf/in2 (14.90 GPa)
Crushing Strength: 9,210 lbf/in2 (63.5 MPa)
http://www.wood-database.com/shagbark-hickory/

Or perhaps it's "Guayabi"? It's said to be preferred to hickory for ax handles (in Paraguay, at least).
content

from Consular Reports, 1896

Is "Guayabi" the same as "Guayabo", whose Modulus of Rupture, Modulus of Elasticity, and Work to Prop. Limit, all surpass that of Hickory, as shown in the table linked below:
Report about wood testing program in Panama
 
So is there any wood out there that can compete with hickory that isn't overly heavy?
 
Ernest DuBois said:
Just this, that I can't accept unequivocal and sweeping claims, ( bound to stir the pot and more), about something as subjective as handling an axe. There are simply to many variables involved to make factual claims on the subject. An example: I know of an Englishman who will not use hickory for his handles not because they aren't strong and flexible and resilient and all that other good stuff but because of the tactile experience, he simply doesn't like the feel of it in the same way he likes the feel of ash. There you have it. Are we - I also like a hickory handle - going to brush off his experience as not valid? For him - the subjectivity - the important thing is something other than what it is for some other Joe and so on and so forth.... then we've got those farmers down in Patagonia that we know now of since yesterday, who'er laughing at out hickory and keeping the secret all to themselves- the bastards.
Click to expand...
A persistent/determined user of wood-handled chopping implements chooses favourites based on previous experience (along with hearsay from peers) and from being cognizant of what can be expected (namely 'scientific' testing) of the material. "Wood", however, is a spectacular material that can readily defeat attempts to 'pigeon hole' it's practical properties because one naive user will blithely hang an axe with 'horribly run-out' and/or 'inopportune' grain orientation whereas another will patiently await the exact 'right' piece.
I like to think I know what I'm doing and have learned what to look for and have gradually become a 'nut' for local Ironwood (Hophornbeam) but have yet to find 'magical' pieces that (I believe) will live up to my expectations. Hickory on the other hand (even the Bitternut version that grows around here) shows the potential for wonderful blanks anytime I visit a nearby milling or land clearing operation. Same goes for Oak, Maple, Ash, Yellow Birch and Beech that are native here.
 
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