O1 vs 1084

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PoolQs

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I have been reading up on both of these steels but maybe I am just missing something.
In the different articles, different makers have preferences on using each for their own reasons.
As a new maker, I still haven't been able to find a definitive on one versus another.
As I understand, both can basically be HT'd and tempered in the same manner.
While O1 does have a little more Carbon content, the 1084 seems to be recommend more
often especially for newer makers. Is there a reason for this?
Is there a better corrosion resistance using O1 vs 1084?
I am going to be ordering my next batch of steel next week and will be mostly focusing
on hunting style knives. (making my 10 of 1 design per Stacey)
Pricing is pretty close to the same so do I order a smaller amount of both or just
one of the two?

Thanks for the help,
Troy
 
I'm kind of in the same boat as you. I wasn't able to find much 1084 so I just ran with O1. I will be receiving it late next week. I'm curious as to how it turns out.

Daniel
 
O-1 has a bit of alloying...1084 is simpler to HT. For a beginner with limited equipment, simpler is better.
 
O1 can be heat treated by simple means but deserves more, due to the added potential of its alloying. O1 is a tool steel, formulated to out perform plain carbon steel in certain environments... but only with a proper heat treat. If you don't understand the effect of alloying or don't have good control of heat, O1 is not the steel for you.

1084 is a great steel that just so happens to be a perfect eutectoid... which means it goes into solution more readily... making it a wise choice for beginners. I think the label "beginner steel" is misleading, as this material(especially Aldo's vanadium laden 1084FG) can make an excellent high-performance blade.
 
People keep saying "1084 is good for beginning knifemakers "....

What they really should be saying is "1084 is good for beginning home heat treaters"

A beginning knifemaker can use any stainless or high carbon steel and spend $14 and have it heat treated professionally.

1084 and 01 are very good steels for knifemaking.
 
AVigil said:
People keep saying "1084 is good for beginning knifemakers "....

What they really should be saying is "1084 is good for beginning home heat treaters"

A beginning knifemaker can use any stainless or high carbon steel and spend $14 and have it heat treated professionally.

1084 and 01 are very good steels for knifemaking.
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That is brilliant. I am using this from now on!!
 
I have used both 1084 and O1 for loads of knives, either way you can't go wrong. Both steels are versatile and work very well.

If I was going for a high hardness I'd use O1 as it can be pushed to a harder RC. A chef buddy told me he has been using an O1 Chef's knife (at ~62 RC) I made. He has been using it since last August full time and it is still hair popping sharp with only stropping and no sharpening whatsoever.

O1 is easy to find precision ground.

If I were to buy bunch of steel today for hunting knives, camp knives, etc it would be 1084; it is top notch material and a great price. The edge is very tough and long lasting. I have the best luck getting it crazy sharp too... I tested a 1084 knife on paper and was able to cut letters off the paper without cutting through it. :D that's sharp!
 
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Dan,

Can you give us a description or post a video of your sharpening routine?
 
I am just getting into knife making and plan on buying 1084. Because I don't have a lot of money to spend on a hobby right now(well buying the house did give me a nice shop space, but fixing the rest of the house is impacting my tool budget), and I want to get enough material for a bunch of knives. So as o1 is about twice as expensive or more than 1084 I will go with the 1084. Conceivably I could use the ovens at work to heat treat more sophisticated alloys but, why not build my skills on an inexpensive easily worked material?
 
Do not forget to calculate in your time and belt cost in preparing 1084. With 01 you do get a big head start
 
AVigil said:
Do not forget to calculate in your time and belt cost in preparing 1084. With 01 you do get a big head start
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Maybe, but at a starting hobby using files, I would rather have lower start up costs right now. When I get to building a grinder and oven it might change.
 
AVigil said:
Do not forget to calculate in your time and belt cost in preparing 1084. With 01 you do get a big head start
Click to expand...

I'm a huge fan of letting someone else grind the scale off any steel whenever possible. When I buy 1084 from Aldo I pay him a few extra bucks to surface grind it. Still comes out much less expensive than PG O1.

For reasons that are not entirely clear to me, I have much more trouble with corrosion on O1 than I do on 1084. Mainly, I advise choosing between 'em based mostly on your HT capabilities and their availability... and to a much lesser degree, cost.

Unless you really need to push the limits of hardness (and there are other alloys better than either of them for that anyway, but I digress...) they both make great knives and I honestly doubt most people could tell much difference between the two steels in use.
 
O1 makes a better kitchen knife in my experience. It supports a fine hard edge a bit better, and the grain is a bit finer. It goes a bit longer between sharpenings too. That said, 52100 is better yet, but harder to heat treat. For an EDC, probably couldn't tell the difference.
 
...maybe I'm not understanding here. These are ALL insanely cheap steels. O1 is what... $45 give or take for .25"x1.5"x36"

How is that too expensive for anyone?

What do you want the knife to do? Is it a slicer of veggies? Will it need to cleave bone? Do you just want to amuse yourself and see how much hemp rope you can cut with it? THESE are reasons to choose a steel. Pick the application, then choose the steel. It will determine how much you do in-house, or allow a pro to help you with.

I use a lot of 1084. It's not that I like it (frankly, I find it pretty underperforming in edge holding, compared to many alloyed steels, and rightly so).
Why do I use it? I make a lot of fighters. I can spring temper the spine, and get a bit more toughness with decent edge holding. It's an easy to finish and heat treat steel. And I have a lot of it. Do I think it's a 'great' steel? Hardly. It works. Nuff said.

O1 has lots of advantages. It can be tougher and has better edge holding. Surprise-surprise! There's alloys in it that, if heat treated properly improve wear resistance and toughness! Same for 52100. Again, no magic.

A2. 3V. Elmax. Cruwear. S110v. Pick your poison. They've all been designed to improve on simple carbon steels in some way or another. Definitive answers as to which you should choose? Only you can know - and that means DETERMINING APPLICATION.

I'm working on a kitchen knife right now in CPM-S110v. It sucks to work with. Eats expensive saw blades and belts. Ignores anything that isn't ceramic. Expensive. I can't heat treat it. Why am I bothering? It's the right answer for the task I'm intending to ask of it.

Figure out what you want to make. Pick the right materials and make it. Don't pick 1084 because someone says it's a good beginner steel. Pick it because you've concluded it's what you SHOULD be using. If another steel would work better, use it. Regardless, make the best knife you can make.
 
What is wrong with letting price be an impact on which steel I choose to start with, using hand tools? Yes other concerns might over ride it, but I want to get started making a few knives before I spend a lot of money into it if I decide I don't want to. So I save $40 in materials on the first few knives. Yes that isn't enough to make me choose a bad material but between two materials that are redily available and when so many recomend the less expensive one why is it bad that I let the cost be a factor in my decision?
 
Matthew Gregory said:
...maybe I'm not understanding here.
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Easy there, big fella! The OP asked a specific question about two specific steels, and we all addressed his concerns as specifically as we could, based on our specific experience with, and understanding of them. That's nothing more, or less, than simply staying "on topic". :)

Matthew Gregory said:
Figure out what you want to make. Pick the right materials and make it.
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I whole-heartedly agree, both in practice and theory. You are 100% correct that purpose should drive any design, and material choices serve only to fulfill that purpose.

Professional knifemakers have a certain responsibility to reach for the very best in everything we do. We are willing to invest a great deal more time and money to achieve that. A hobbyist who just wants to make a few knives for himself and his friends need not concern himself with all that. Fact is, 1080/1084 can be made into very good knives, even by a novice with the simplest of tools.

In the interest of full disclosure, I seldom make knives out of simple alloys these days, for various reasons... but many of my clients prefer simple alloys because they suit their preferences, and I would be foolish to ignore them.

ponderingturtle said:
What is wrong with letting price be an impact on which steel I choose to start with, using hand tools? Yes other concerns might over ride it, but I want to get started making a few knives before I spend a lot of money into it if I decide I don't want to.
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There is nothing wrong with that! I applaud your interest, and your willingness to do some research and set reasonable guidelines that work for you and your goals. You are already way, way ahead of the goofballs who want to make a knife from an old leaf-spring or lawnmower blade... :thumbup:

Matthew Gregory said:
Sounds like you got it figured out. Never mind - carry on!
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By all means, please do not take my response as a rebuke or insult. I respect you and your work a great deal. :)
 
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james terrio said:
I'm a huge fan of letting someone else grind the scale off any steel whenever possible. When I buy 1084 from Aldo I pay him a few extra bucks to surface grind it. Still comes out much less expensive than PG O1.

For reasons that are not entirely clear to me, I have much more trouble with corrosion on O1 than I do on 1084. Mainly, I advise choosing between 'em based mostly on your HT capabilities and their availability... and to a much lesser degree, cost.

Unless you really need to push the limits of hardness (and there are other alloys better than either of them for that anyway, but I digress...) they both make great knives and I honestly doubt most people could tell much difference between the two steels in use.
Click to expand...
I heat treated an Aldo 1084 today…. What does the surface grind achieve??? Evidently takes original layer off…. ??? How much is taken off? Can further explain?
 
Welcome Jefflynnstar (Jeff and Lynn Star or Jeff Lynn Star?)
Fill out your profile so we know a bit about you and where you live.
I deleted your repeat posts. No need to hit "Post Reply" again.

This is a ten-year-old thread. It is always best to start a new thread and link the old one with a new question.
Some of the info has changed in the past ten years. Folks like Larrin have taught us a lot about the metallurgy of HT. I highly recommend you get his book "Knife Engineering".

As to your question, Surface grinding after the quench and tempering removes decarb and assures the blade is flat. The amount removed varies from around .005 to .010" in most cases. It can be done with a surface grinder if you have one available (which most folks don't) or on the grinder platen, or with a granite surface block and 100-grit paper.
You always want to start with steel a little thicker than the finished knife because you lose thickness in the grinding and finishing stages. In my case, a bar of .125" steel will finish at around .100" at the ricasso. Most new makers make their first knives far too thick anyway, so losing some thickness is good. I always tell folks to take a micrometer and measure all of your favorite knives you own (kitchen, hunting, fishing, EDC, folders) to see how thin they actually are. Most are amazed at the thinness. Most are half the thickness of bar stock people try to make their first knives from.
 
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