Only in Germany...

otter,

115 mph doesn't really take much skill as long as the road is straight, there's little to no traffic, you're careful and awake and you respect your car's speed, but at the same time don't fear it.

The Autobahn wouldn't be as secure as (or even more secure than) any other speedway in the world if that wasn't true.
That's a simple fact and I'd like to ask you for statistics backing up your claim.

115+ mph is rather common over here, so accidents would happen all the time if average drivers couldn't handle such speeds.

My girlfriend once pushed her car beyond 200(!) mph on a race track and she was still able to control it (she's an excellent driver though).


I don't wanna come off as a chauvinist (in the original sense of the word), but German drivers seem to be pretty well-trained. I once read about a semi-scientific "reverse parking contest" where they counted the number of maneuvers a certain sample of drivers from a lot of different countries needed to get it right.
Germans came out on top with British drivers on a distant second place.
(By the way, men fared significantly better than women in this test.)

Getting a driver's license in Germany seems to be much harder than in most other countries and the constant speeding on Germany's rather complex traffic layout in urban areas may force you to become a good driver. I don't know whether that's a valid explanation though.

Cindy Denning said:
Are the taxis still Mercedes?
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Most of them, yes. But I've seen more and more Audis lately.
 
The new BMW M5 can go up to 205mph. And it costs just over a half of what a ferrari costs.

I think the most important thing about driving fast is that you know that your car can handle it and that you've got enough experience on the road to notice the little signs that something might be wrong on the road or in the car. I've been to Germany once and the drivers on the autobahn are really disciplined. There wasn't much fast lane hoarding. Overtake and back into the slower lane.
 
faramir said:
Since civilians are pretty much the only ones driving at thoe speeds in Germany that makes one wonder what is it that makes American roads so much more unsafe (stats-wise) compared to German ? Is it the driving skills (and the lack thereof), average quality of the vehicles, culture on the road, infrastructure, what ?
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Perhaps we have more people driving?
 
jaids said:
Perhaps we have more people driving?
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We are talking about accidents per capita here...sorry, I currently can't provide any statistics, but I remember reading about how German roads are as safe as those of other countries.
 
The Autobahn is built for high speeds. The lanes are wide, very well kept and relatively straight (in that curves are sweeping).

One of the misconceptions about the Autobahn is that everyone is doing break-neck speeds.

Another misconception is that the entire Autobahn has no speed limits. There are many parts of the Autobahn that do have speed limits.

And your car must be what is called speed rated. You can't take your "burner" and throw it on the Autobahn to see if you can peg 200 MPH. The polizei can spot a "burner" a mile away. If they suspect that you car isn't speed rated. . . .you're hosed.

To give you an idea about "speed rated". . .I was returning from Frankfurt one evening, doing a little over 150 MPH (hyped BMW 623csi), and felt a slight shimmy in the front end and the scent of rubber filter to the interior. Pulled over to the shoulder and discovered that the right front tire had experienced a blow-out. Thank God for high speed Perilli's ! Speed rated tires are designed not to fall apart under extreme conditions and only lose a minimum amount of air, if any.


I found the drivers well-trained and very cooperative. To survive. . .you must obey the simple rules of driving on the Autobahn ! And you must be extremely alert ! Some cars (i.e., the BIG BMW's & Mercedes) are traveling at top speed. You can look in your rear view mirror and see nothing behind you, drop your eyes to the road ahead and quickly look up in the rear view and have a BIG arse BMW right on your buttt with lights flashing and horn beeping.


Driving the Autobahn can not be compared to driving on US roadways !


The Autobahn is a thrill. . . . .driving in the US, depending on the location, is frightening. :D
 
Cockroachfarm- You betcha! Hehe- wonderful car. We paid 50 bucks for the car, and 50 bucks for the mandatory insurance. Thing had a speedo, and two idiot lights. No gas guage. The filler hole (under the "hood") was about four inches across, so you could look in to see how much gas you had.
There was also a motorcycle-like "reserve" switch that gave you another liter or so.
Mechanical brakes too, cables ran to the brake hubs. No hydraulics for us, thanks! Got us around, though.
 
"115 mph doesn't really take much skill as long as:

the road is straight
there's little to no traffic
you're careful and awake..."

Quiet Storm,

I'd call those three qualifiers "3 cartridges in the cylinder when playing Russian Roulette." I don't care to gamble my life based on "If plus if plus if."

"3,508 people were killed on Britain’s roads in 2003, seriously injured 33,707. Total casualties in 2003 were 290,607." That's roughly five people killed by cars for every one murdered.

The Autobahn wouldn't be as secure as (or even more secure than) any other speedway in the world if that wasn't true.
That's a simple fact and I'd like to ask you for statistics backing up your claim.

HMC_deaths_per_mv.gif


115+ mph is rather common over here, so accidents would happen all the time if average drivers couldn't handle such speeds.

"Slow and Safe

Britain is another safe-driving country with a strict driving exam — only about half the people taking driving tests pass. There, driving slowly and safely isn’t by choice. British roads are congested, with the average speed in London hovering around 11 mph, according to Andrew Howard, head of road safety for the nation’s Automobile Association.
Unlike in the United States, few British cities have freeways going through the center, meaning most driving is done on country roads or busy streets with lights.
“Our plummet in road deaths in recent years has been particularly in urban areas. You now can’t get up the speed to have them,” Howard says."

http://www.mrtraffic.com/worlddrivers.html

I don't wanna come off as a chauvinist (in the original sense of the word), but German drivers seem to be pretty well-trained. IGermans came out on top with British drivers on a distant second place.

HMC_deaths_per_pop.gif


mway_sl1~.gif


The graph above suggests that there is something about autobahn travel and/or German drivers. I wish you could can it and export it to my force area. Having said that, the raw stats in the other graphs suggest that - after Dieter and Willi leave the autobahn - they are more likely to kill each other than UK drivers.

Basic physics, simple common sense: "If I run into something/a tyre bursts/someone runs into me/I sneeze and hit the Armco", is the damage at (German) 120mph going to be more or less severe than at (UK) 70 mph?"

I repeat my original contention: No civilian driver has the skills to drive a car safely at 115mph. Most don't have the nous to drive at 70. Many shouldn't be driving Scalextric.

maximus otter
 
maximus otter said:
mway_sl1~.gif
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That's pretty much all I need to know about high-speed driving on the Autobahn.

Please note that the numbers should be even more obvious since 250 km/h (as shown in the graph) is not the speed limit, a lot of cars can go faster than that.
 
Good points Gig-
I hear all of the time: Man, I wish I could drive on the Autobahn, I'd never go under 100!"
No you wouldn't. It's fatiguing as hell if you're not used to the speed. Your reaction times are cut. Sure, on some of the straights, you can really get it going if your machine is equipped for it, but you can't sustain that type of speed over time w/ changing traffic patterns. It IS a huge amount of fun, but you need to be disciplined. German drivers are*very* well trained- you must be at least 18, take a detailed driving class (includes basic mechanics) & pass a test that many don't pass.
The road beds are at least twice as thick on the Autobahn than they are on US roads & curves are banked & sweep gently rather than jerk & turn like many US roads do. Very well engineered.
 
It's really a humbling feeling to have the pleasure of using the autobahn. One day, I was averaging about 90 mph in my brother-in-laws Lexus IS200 and was blown away by two seperate Porches going at least 150mph. Sometimes I found it too scary just to pass someone for the fear of being run over. :eek:
 
Are there many bikes out there keeping up with the Porches and BMWs ?

My Autobahn experience is limited to The Travel Channel. A special I saw talked about how different the drivers were compared to the US. No coffee, no cell phone, and respect for others driving. They took their driving seriously.

Alex
 
Posted by Wunderbar

Sometimes I found it too scary just to pass someone for the fear of being run over. :eek:
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LOL


One of the stangest feelings. . . .doing 120+ in the center lane of the Autobahn and have a screamer come out of no where. . . .blow past you like you were standing still. . . .and drop outta sight in the blink of an eye ! :D
 
maximus otter said:
I repeat my original contention: No civilian driver has the skills to drive a car safely at 115mph. Most don't have the nous to drive at 70. Many shouldn't be driving Scalextric.

maximus otter
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The speed limit in my home state of Oklahoma is 65 mph on most 2 lane highways and 75 mph on the Interstate highways. I usually drive just below 80 mph as we're unofficially allowed 5 mph over due to the inaccuracy of mechanical speedometers.
And driving at just below 80 mph I am passed by perhaps half the cars on the Interstate, some like I'm setting still.
In traveling from Oklahoma to Pennsylvania, Arizona, and in the past Mississippi I've only seen one wreck and that was a mild one when a trailer went fishtailing and jackknifed into the back of the towing vehicle.

However on the other hand I often see wrecks on the Interstate and Alternate Interstate running through Tulsa where the speed limit is 60 to 65 mph. The majority of these wrecks are caused by reckless driving, and then speeding, or a combo of the two.
IIRC statistics show that most wrecks are within 25 miles of home, at least here in the states.
When I was younger I drove a lot faster and no doubt was a greater danger then than I would be now.
Todays cars are a lot safer at higher speeds IMO than the cars of the 50's and 60's with better tires, brakes and steering.
I think it's a given that you do have to have a high degree of alertness when you're driving at higher rates of speed.
But much depends on age experience and state of mind behind the wheel as well.
I know many civilians I would feel safe with at 115 mph. I would commonly drive at speeds of 100 mph or greater on some highways, not all, if the law allowed, I can't afford the ticket or the raise in insurance costs.;)
 
Matt Shade said:
Yeah, no civilian has the skills to safely handle firearms either :rolleyes:
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It's not the same thing. Firearms are safe because we follow simple rules like "Be sure it's always pointed in a safe direction" and "Don't touch the trigger until you are fully ready to fire."
At 115 mph, the gun is always pointed at you and your finger's on the trigger the whole time. I don't know what the right cutoff is -- 90, 115, or 150 -- but if you're driving at speeds you are not used to, you do not realize how much harder it is to stop or change direction in case of a problem.

That said, I suspect Tim is right about German drivers--the Fahrschule there is very serious (and expensive IIRC). I'm not surprised about the results in parallel parking, especially; it's a tricky skill where most Americans have only basic instruction and practice.
 
johnniet said:
It's not the same thing. Firearms are safe because we follow simple rules like "Be sure it's always pointed in a safe direction" and "Don't touch the trigger until you are fully ready to fire."
At 115 mph, the gun is always pointed at you and your finger's on the trigger the whole time. I don't know what the right cutoff is -- 90, 115, or 150 -- but if you're driving at speeds you are not used to, you do not realize how much harder it is to stop or change direction in case of a problem.

That said, I suspect Tim is right about German drivers--the Fahrschule there is very serious (and expensive IIRC). I'm not surprised about the results in parallel parking, especially; it's a tricky skill where most Americans have only basic instruction and practice.
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I don't think there is a safe cut off point. A stupid wreckless driver will be just that....at any speed. I think the best thing is to have better driving classes and tests. And maybe if someone is obtaining a car capable of going at a certain speed they'll be required to take extra classes like advanced driving.
 
I have a theory that I think would cut US traffic accident quite significantly.

- No Cell phones while driving.
- Anybody that shops at Walmart is not allowed to have a car or drive.
 
I dunno... the only ones that scare me are the ones with the cellphone going, a cup of coffee in one hand and a mascara applicator in the other, during rush hour traffic and trying to pass everybody like the proverbial bat... in the RIGHTHAND BLOODY LANE!!! :mad:
 
Stats of death during accident doesn't prove anything about safety definitavely.

It could be just saying portugal doesn't get to you in time or hospitals are far, or they are unsophisticated EMS. If all things were equal except speedlimit then we might have some stats that mean something otherwise it just USA Today trash. It could be spun to whatevr you want.

Corelation doesn't equal causation. Learned that day one in Stats 101.

Paul
 
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