Ontario Machetes

Cobalt,

Some questions about your examples. You offer the example of using the knife to make a spear, and cite the knife's pointedness versus a machete. This implies you would consider tying the knife to the end of a stick (and possibly losing it), instead of just sharpening the stick and hardening the point. Is that right? Regarding ammo cans, in the context of this discussion (particularly camping), do you really carry your ammo in cans? For that matter, do you hump canned food around? Heavy!

I agree about the greater utility of the mid-sized overbuilt fixed blade for the examples you cite, just not quite sure how real-world they are.

Again, I've never ever been told that I could only carry one knife, so I'm not sure why that keeps getting cited. That's one thing that's definitely not real-world, so I usually don't argue it. But I suppose *if* I could only carry one knife or the gods would smite me dead, I agree it might not be a machete for all purposes. If you have a machete, you probably want to have something that excels at small jobs to complement it, no question.

Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
 
Actually, Joe, I have never had to do any of the above, well except the ammo cans. A lot of military ammo comes sealed in metal cans, try that on a machete. But, you wanted uses and I brought some up.

But since you want me to get serious, or semiserious, actually, I can't really get that serious, here goes.

1. What hacks better? Machete of course
2. What does fine cutting and carving work better? Smaller survival blade.
3. What pries better? Smaller survival blade.
4.What penetrates Better? Smaller survival blade.
5. What digs better? I don't really know.
6. What is more durable and likely to last longer with a wide variety of uses? I think the smaller fixed blade.
7. Which one would I buy if I only had 20 bucks? Gee, the machete, since I cannot afford the good knife.
8. Which one is more apt to bend like a pretzel? The machete.
9. Which one can spread butter better? The machete of course.
10. Which one is better for giving a spanking? The machete of course.
11. Which knife could you slide under the door if it didn't have the handle? Why the machete of course.
12. Is there knives or machetes that have survived over 100 years of use? No for the machete on average and yes for the knife. This is an obvious one.

But I'll tell you one thing about machetes. There is nothing better for hacking light brush. When the brush turns into heavy wooded area, then the work gets dificult.

by the way, I have opened crates with one of my SRK's, have opened metal cans with my SRK, have used it as a light hammer, and the pointed end has more uses.

Truth is that if I'm going to carry something as big as a machete, I might as well go for the king of loppers and use the khukuri, which easily outperforms the machete in most work except light brush chopping. It's also a better weapon and will last a lifetime if built right.
 
Cobalt --

Thanks for your semi-serious reply, I found your arguments semi-persuasive
smile.gif
Actually, we agree on a number of subjects, and usually only disagree when you have what I feel is an overemphasis on strength versus cutting ability. But being in the military explains the desire for greater strength. It also explains the metal cans example, which I felt was really irrelevent for civilian camp use.

Okay, going through the list:
#2 was a question about fine cutting and carving. Yes, the smaller blade does it better, but the fact is the mid-size blades we're discussing really aren't much good for that. By going with machete + small-job-knife, you get better chopping plus better fine work.

What I was initially bringing out was how many people bring the 7" "survival blades" as their camp knife. When we go camping, we always have people in our party bringing them -- they are the most popular knives in fact. You know what gets used? The heavier cutlery like my hatchet or machete or saw (whatever I brought). And my lighter cutlery, like my Deerhunter. And the few folders that are scattered about. Outside of the military-type uses (opening ammo crates, etc.), there's very little in the civilian camp or even wilderness survival environment that a machete + small blade can't easily outperform it at. Prying? How often do you pry things out in the bush? Opening cans? We'll do that with the multitool or SAK if we had to, but really no one but car campers brings cans out camping, they're too dang heavy. For the things you really end up doing -- from food prep to dressing game to preparing firewood to clearing the camp [camping] and possibly creating traps & snares to chopping for shelter [wilderness survival], the things you need to do are much better handled by a machete and small fixed blade than a military-type medium-sized fixed blade. If you're worried about weight, make it a small folding saw and small fixed blade, you'll still end up ahead for most uses!

Now if you're talking about military usage, breaking open ammo crates, stuff like that, the military-style medium-sized blades make sense.

Joe


 
Joe, if you asked me which I would rather go chop wood or brush with, a 7 inch knife or a machete, it would, no doubt, be the machete. And when I go camping I always make it a point to take a minimum 9 to 10 inch blade with me because of that. In fact this thread has sparked my interest in machetes again so much that I just ordered another one. Hey, their cheap and they get the job done. I just think that the thin blade has many disadvantages to go along with the lightweight main advantage.

Oops, I don't think I was supposed to make any more purchases. Well, can't send that bagwell back now.
 
All of you have made some very good points!

Bottom line may simply be personal preferances. If we all liked the same thing, there wouldn't be need for hundreds of different knives.

I have generally never really found a need for blade between 4 and 7 inches, although I have several.

For all my hunting needs a folder from 2"-4"
will do everything from mule deer on down, inc complete deboning.

Under 7" and you rarely get a good chopper.
Oh yes, I use my 6" CS SRK to do some chopping, but only with a lanyard so the last half of the handle can be grabbed.

I agree the thin blade of the machette is the best tool for vines, branches, vegetation growth, and small limbs (up to about 3/4" depending on the wood. Thicker wood that requires multple chops sometimes causes the thin flat ground blade to "stick"
whereas a hatchet/axe or thick bowie will be faster and more efficient.

I too have never been stuck with just one knife so I take a folder and a fixed. If I want to go light, like in skiing in non isolated areas, I might take a 6" fixed.

The machette is a Great knife, and while I don't have jungle survival experiance, the number 1 blade for that is the 18" machette.
Look at all the tribes in Asia, Africa, and S. America. The machette if there primary tool. (We call that "survival". They call it day to day living).

I like the Ontarios. Issue machettes for our armed forces, and they have U.S. stamped on the blades.
 
Joe-
I'm sorry about the tomato slicer remark, I got carried away.I have learned much from you and all the others on this forum, even and maybe especialy when we disagree.
I do agree with you by the way about camping knives.
I do think it is wrong to make general statements about the worth of a type of knife or a feature or design or whatever just because we don't see an imediate use for it,and that is what I was posting about.Others may have great uses for that feature that we don't know about.You and others went beyond saying you didn't like something for your particular use to condeming the whole concept for all uses.I think that is wrong, especialy on a medium that may affect other peoples decisions.
I was not trying to make any artificial constraints on the earlier post.I was talking about the very real constraints of a survival situation that a person could be thrown into for any number of reasons.A hunter getting lost,a car mishap in the middle of nowhere,etc.,not a camping trip or other planned situation that one would be carrying a chopper of some sort along with a favorite light knife.I almost always have a Kbar type knife with me secured to my person, as many others do, incase I get separated from my other gear for whatever reason.With this knife I can split wet wood found on the ground or broken off a tree using another piece of wood to get to dry tinder for a fire.I can use it to pry open a door or window of an uninhabited shed or house if absolutely necessary.I can use it to help me get a hold to get out of ice I fell thru while walking across a frozen lake.etc.,etc.,etc.,just to name a few things I can't picture doing with a saw or smaller knife even if I had them with me.
I don't want to offend anyone or make any enemies, I value everyones opinion and want to be friends with everyone as far as it's up to me.I just don't like it when we put down other peoples choices.
m
 
A question and a comment:

How does the Ontario perform on light flexible vegetation?

I bought a Barteux 22" Machete at Home Depot a few months ago. I wanted to trim palm trees and other vegetation around the yard here in South Florida.

It does not cut well. I think the blade is just too thick. I've thinned it out with a file, but I still can't get it to slice. It just "thunks" on soft vegetation and requires axe like swings in anything a little harder.

This leads to the other problem. The hard orange D shaped handle is the most uncomfortable handle of any tool that I've ever held. It's too clunky and transfers vibration to the hand and jams the pinky.

I've really tried to use this machete. In desperation, I cut it down to 18" to see if I can get any better performance, but nothing seems to work.

I'm told the Ace Hardware machete is the real deal sold locally. I'll have to check it out.

Anybody want a custom 18" Barteax cheap?

------------------
Dan Harris
danharris@ibm.net
 
Has anyone out there tried a brand called Tramontina? I think they're from Brazil. The *pictures* look good. Most of them have hard wood handles, as opposed to the plastic ones you typically see.

Dave
 
Dave, I have not tried their machetes but I have handled a couple of their large bowies and the steel will take a decent fine edge but it is really, really weak. It will grossly deform on hard wood. Not chip or indentations in the blade but actual semi-circular bends, say 1 cm radius.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 21 April 1999).]
 
I don't have a Tramontina, but friends from central & south America -- where they actually use machetes a lot -- swear by 'em. Unfortunately, I can't do a comparison with Ontario at this point.

MPS tried out a Tramontina sugar cane machete and wasn't tremendously satisfied, but I think I came to the conclusion that he was more dissatisfied about the general utility of a sugar cane machete, rather than having a problem with Tramontina specifically.
 
m -- Knives are too goofy a subject to take anything too personal. And in retrospect, I was too casually dismissive of features which you had already said you find useful, so I apologize for that.

Joe
 
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