Open Letter to KA-BAR

[Wasty]

Dear KA-BAR,

I know your company since I was a child. I first came across your knives when I was a Boyscout in the 80s. When one of our leaders had a Mark 2 strapped to his belt, everyone wanted such a amazing knife. We were in awe of that knife and it had the reputation of being the best knife ever.

Growing up I had several of them, before even the Internet was born. Some got lost, some did not survive my adolescent years. Years later, I was drawn to the Becker line and now they are my “go to” knives. I own quite some of them and I am very happy with them. Especially with Ethan Becker, he is such a warm-hearted and caring person, he stands behind his knives and gave the community here really some positiveness, that is reflected by that small sub forum.

There is a difference in having a knife and owning a knife. Everyone of us has knives that he uses daily in the kitchen. These knives are “function only” knives. They get used, then put in the dishwasher… rinse and repeat. We do not “own” these knives, we only have them.

Contrary to having a knife, you own it: It is your trusted steel, that is tried and true and always sharp. My BK14 ( last time I counted I have at least 5 of them) is “that” knife for me. I have several threads singing it’s praise, demanding a “slightly” longer handle and so on…

The value of a knife is built upon of several objective and subjective factors:

Objective:

Steel, quality, service, warranty, price, tests*.

- those are the hard factors, that everyone can check and compare.

Subjective:

Ergonomics, look, “feel”, reputation, tests*, trust.

This is not an exhaustive list, but the point is that the buying impulse of an individual will always be triggered by a mix of the above factors.

KA-BAR has a wonderful history that you actually put on your website and here on BF to add value to your products and reinforce the trust, your customers give you by buying your knives. You have a base of loyal customers and despite being owned by a company that reputation isn’t all perfect, you retain those customers.

Also, the recognition and the derived market value of KA-BAR is most likely unparalleled, due to your legendary fighting knife.

I know that the pandemic was quite a blow to the world and all companies have suffered greatly.

However, the way KABAR is headed with the newest releases will ultimately taint your reputation and the trust you have with your customers will decline.

People need something to cling on to, while anxiety and uncertain times are upon them. Don’t take this away, stay true to your heritage and history. This will make your company stronger and eventually pay off.

I could have said this in way less words, but I refuse to believe that you are only out for quick cash and don’t give a x about your customers.

Thanks for reading.

 

[OFFICIAL_KA-BAR]

Wasty,

Thanks for posting. The topics you hit on have come up a few times over the last year and I want to address them.

Right now we are building more knives in our factory in Olean, NY since World War II. In all seriousness we could make nothing but USMC Fighting Knives and BK2s right now all day every day and that would keep us busy well in to the foreseeable future. Each day, for the last year making more knives in our factory since WWII, we have ended the day at a net lose of inventory due to demand. We have hired like crazy in the factory, but the surge in demand has grown by the day. By no means are we complaining - after all, this is what we live for. At the start of the Covid-19 pandemic are factory was shut down for close to 3 months. Factory shutdown combined with a tidal wave of orders is not a recipe to have a surplus of stock or get time on machines for new products. As most companies in our industry we currently have a large backorder of existing products. That means many of the products that have come out in the last year are being made overseas while we fight to fill the supply of our current lineup. As we are not the only company that has had to do this even having products made overseas is a struggle right now. Things like getting shipping containers is a fight. Personally seeing the global supply chain the advice I have taken and that I given others is that if you need something or think you may need something - doesn't matter if it is a dishwasher, computer, knife, etc. - and you see it now you should buy it. It is going to be awhile before logistics are sorted out around the globe starting with raw materials.

This is a strange time. I dug through our archives to see if I could find anything on what Union Cutlery did during the Spanish Flu pandemic. I couldn't find anything. My guess is they didn't have time to keep detailed notes. Out of this difficult time one positive is that this surge is being driven by first time buyers. For many spending even $50 on a knife seems like an excessive luxury. However, the initial purchase of a Dozier Folding Knife or another price point item tends to lead to a Fighting/Utility Knife or a BK9 followed by additional purchases of progressively higher quality. Some of these first time buyers will discover a passion for knives they didn't know they had. Some of these people may even end up here and other places like Bladeforums. We know every item we make isn't for everyone - it would sure simplify things if we only had to make a handful of products that met every need and qualification for everyone. Many of the new items in the 2021 catalog were close to being sold out before we even had them in our warehouse. Zombie Knives (yes, Zombie Knives) have been selling like its the first season of The Walking Dead. If you asked me for a slow selling product right now I would struggle to come up with one.

What does this mean for the future? Well, hopefully we don't see events that we have experienced the last year for another 100 years and all of the notes and records we are keeping will be useful to the next generation of KA-BAR in the event they may have to go through a similar experience. The sales we are and have experienced will help keep us moving forward and make it easier to weather a downturn in sales and demand that is inevitably coming. As I mentioned we have done a fair bit of hiring, which is a great thing in our rural neck of the woods. Most of our management has spent a good chunk of the year packing knife boxes; if you bought a knife in the last year from us there is a good chance one of us packaged it for you. I would go so far as to say the staff at KA-BAR is the best we have ever had in our 123 year history; what they did this past year was incredible. The sheer volume of knives that moved through our shipping lines was unprecedented and they made it work. I can only imagine what we can accomplish when we have time to breathe.

 

[Yo Mama]

Wasty,

Thanks for posting. The topics you hit on have come up a few times over the last year and I want to address them.

Right now we are building more knives in our factory in Olean, NY since World War II. In all seriousness we could make nothing but USMC Fighting Knives and BK2s right now all day every day and that would keep us busy well in to the foreseeable future. Each day, for the last year making more knives in our factory since WWII, we have ended the day at a net lose of inventory due to demand. We have hired like crazy in the factory, but the surge in demand has grown by the day. By no means are we complaining - after all, this is what we live for. At the start of the Covid-19 pandemic are factory was shut down for close to 3 months. Factory shutdown combined with a tidal wave of orders is not a recipe to have a surplus of stock or get time on machines for new products. As most companies in our industry we currently have a large backorder of existing products. That means many of the products that have come out in the last year are being made overseas while we fight to fill the supply of our current lineup. As we are not the only company that has had to do this even having products made overseas is a struggle right now. Things like getting shipping containers is a fight. Personally seeing the global supply chain the advice I have taken and that I given others is that if you need something or think you may need something - doesn't matter if it is a dishwasher, computer, knife, etc. - and you see it now you should buy it. It is going to be awhile before logistics are sorted out around the globe starting with raw materials.

This is a strange time. I dug through our archives to see if I could find anything on what Union Cutlery did during the Spanish Flu pandemic. I couldn't find anything. My guess is they didn't have time to keep detailed notes. Out of this difficult time one positive is that this surge is being driven by first time buyers. For many spending even $50 on a knife seems like an excessive luxury. However, the initial purchase of a Dozier Folding Knife or another price point item tends to lead to a Fighting/Utility Knife or a BK9 followed by additional purchases of progressively higher quality. Some of these first time buyers will discover a passion for knives they didn't know they had. Some of these people may even end up here and other places like Bladeforums. We know every item we make isn't for everyone - it would sure simplify things if we only had to make a handful of products that met every need and qualification for everyone. Many of the new items in the 2021 catalog were close to being sold out before we even had them in our warehouse. Zombie Knives (yes, Zombie Knives) have been selling like its the first season of The Walking Dead. If you asked me for a slow selling product right now I would struggle to come up with one.

What does this mean for the future? Well, hopefully we don't see events that we have experienced the last year for another 100 years and all of the notes and records we are keeping will be useful to the next generation of KA-BAR in the event they may have to go through a similar experience. The sales we are and have experienced will help keep us moving forward and make it easier to weather a downturn in sales and demand that is inevitably coming. As I mentioned we have done a fair bit of hiring, which is a great thing in our rural neck of the woods. Most of our management has spent a good chunk of the year packing knife boxes; if you bought a knife in the last year from us there is a good chance one of us packaged it for you. I would go so far as to say the staff at KA-BAR is the best we have ever had in our 123 year history; what they did this past year was incredible. The sheer volume of knives that moved through our shipping lines was unprecedented and they made it work. I can only imagine what we can accomplish when we have time to breathe.

Moving to more off shore manufacturing with lower quality steel and poor designs are not going to help. Covid didn't impact designs and products we are now seeing, takes years to come to market. I understand the factory was closed for 3 months, but that's no reason for the garbage decisions that are leading up to the ruin of the Kabar name. Targeting the walmart crowd is not the same as knife enthusiasts, you will have to pick one.

My advice is get rid of anyone who supported this junk in the company, make it public, apologize, and hire a true knife aficionado to have a better direction.

 

[1066vik]

Based on what OKB is saying, I see this as KaBar made the decision to use a resource that was available rather than lose out on getting new items to market -- once things settle down, these lines MIGHT move back on-shore, like we saw with the BK13 a few years back.
I'll keep hoping for that outcome and am interested in seeing what else they do.
While I am not thrilled with the choice to add Ethan's name to another knife made not only off-shore, but by a non-allied country, I can understand why that decision was made.

I wish KaBar all the luck and look forward to the next round of developments.

 

[GIRLYmann]

"Si vis pacem, para bellum".
always be unprepared.
greater times of uncertainty
would always lie ahead.
its comforting to hope for the best
and keep being optimistic for the future.
we may not all know what the future holds.
but certain things if left uncheked
have a way of becoming inevitable.
whilst experiences from history
has been a great teacher,
one can only move forward into time
and hope that decisions being
currently made would produce
the desired results.
in this regard, steering ahead into
unchartered waters is certainly going
to be an epic journey of self diacovery,
but come what may, diligence and hardwork is essential to keep things going.
it does no good worrying about things beyond one's control.
keep focused and stick with the plan,
rest assured like the seafarers
who finally discovered
that the world is not flat;
unfounded fear of the unknown
has a way of crippling normalcy
lighten up, it may be a rough patch
now, but its not dooms day.. yet.
all the best wishes to the ka-bar crew!
oh and btw, a new model suggestion.
could ka-bar come up
with a stackleather handle dagger
as in a regular f/u USMC replaced with
a spearpointed blade instead?
thinking perhaps a dual edged
and another with a 1/4 length
false edge grind?
just my 2 cents.

 

[Batleship]

Serrations get rid of serrations.

 

[PocketKnifeJimmy]

Wasty,

Thanks for posting. The topics you hit on have come up a few times over the last year and I want to address them.

Right now we are building more knives in our factory in Olean, NY since World War II. In all seriousness we could make nothing but USMC Fighting Knives and BK2s right now all day every day and that would keep us busy well in to the foreseeable future. Each day, for the last year making more knives in our factory since WWII, we have ended the day at a net lose of inventory due to demand. We have hired like crazy in the factory, but the surge in demand has grown by the day. By no means are we complaining - after all, this is what we live for. At the start of the Covid-19 pandemic are factory was shut down for close to 3 months. Factory shutdown combined with a tidal wave of orders is not a recipe to have a surplus of stock or get time on machines for new products. As most companies in our industry we currently have a large backorder of existing products. That means many of the products that have come out in the last year are being made overseas while we fight to fill the supply of our current lineup. As we are not the only company that has had to do this even having products made overseas is a struggle right now. Things like getting shipping containers is a fight. Personally seeing the global supply chain the advice I have taken and that I given others is that if you need something or think you may need something - doesn't matter if it is a dishwasher, computer, knife, etc. - and you see it now you should buy it. It is going to be awhile before logistics are sorted out around the globe starting with raw materials.

This is a strange time. I dug through our archives to see if I could find anything on what Union Cutlery did during the Spanish Flu pandemic. I couldn't find anything. My guess is they didn't have time to keep detailed notes. Out of this difficult time one positive is that this surge is being driven by first time buyers. For many spending even $50 on a knife seems like an excessive luxury. However, the initial purchase of a Dozier Folding Knife or another price point item tends to lead to a Fighting/Utility Knife or a BK9 followed by additional purchases of progressively higher quality. Some of these first time buyers will discover a passion for knives they didn't know they had. Some of these people may even end up here and other places like Bladeforums. We know every item we make isn't for everyone - it would sure simplify things if we only had to make a handful of products that met every need and qualification for everyone. Many of the new items in the 2021 catalog were close to being sold out before we even had them in our warehouse. Zombie Knives (yes, Zombie Knives) have been selling like its the first season of The Walking Dead. If you asked me for a slow selling product right now I would struggle to come up with one.

What does this mean for the future? Well, hopefully we don't see events that we have experienced the last year for another 100 years and all of the notes and records we are keeping will be useful to the next generation of KA-BAR in the event they may have to go through a similar experience. The sales we are and have experienced will help keep us moving forward and make it easier to weather a downturn in sales and demand that is inevitably coming. As I mentioned we have done a fair bit of hiring, which is a great thing in our rural neck of the woods. Most of our management has spent a good chunk of the year packing knife boxes; if you bought a knife in the last year from us there is a good chance one of us packaged it for you. I would go so far as to say the staff at KA-BAR is the best we have ever had in our 123 year history; what they did this past year was incredible. The sheer volume of knives that moved through our shipping lines was unprecedented and they made it work. I can only imagine what we can accomplish when we have time to breathe.

I won't make a long opinionated comment on how I feel about where some of the new KA-BAR products are being manufactured... Why?... Well, it will only mirror a lot of what the other folks here have already expressed. And, my mother always did say, if you don't have something positive to say, don't say anything at all

On another, but related note... While I was reading the KA-BAR response above, I noticed the mentioning that KA-BAR's series of "Zombie Knives" have returned to selling well. Since this series was discontinued, and priced to sell at the clearance level to help liquidate their inventory, I'm surprised that they are still found in stock at KA-BAR. I would have guessed that they'd all be sold out by now. On their website they still list three or four models as being available. They must have made a ba-jillion of them for them to still have some so long after the Zombie Knife craze had passed!

 

[Wasty]

Hi OFFICIAL_KA-BAR

first of all, thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. It is really good to hear that you are busy. I really appreciate the transparency and your answer.

It is quite exhausting to work at capacity and beyond, but this hard work will pay off eventually. In times like these, everyone needs something to hold on, and what better thing could there be than a USMC Knife or a BK2 ? (Well, a BK11, 14, 15, 16. 17, 18, 2, 2L 5, 7, 9, BK20 and so on )

It also means, you are hopefully building a good financial cushion for future investments.
I have read your answer quite thoroughly and I can symphasize with some of your arguments.

However, the approach of “We must bring out something new at all cost” and the choice of production overseas is a double-edged sword.

1. You may find people that will buy a knife from you for 40$ - Some of them may progressively buy higher end blades and indeed come to BF.
2. We live in an economy that is ruled by reviews, you know this better than me, as the knife business is highly competitive, and people will most certainly look up the knife before they buy.
3. With your core values stated as they are, they will find a dissonance between what you state and what you sell.
4. With most of your customers in the US, you’ll get a lot of heat for some of your decisions.

If you have time to breathe, please have an in house discussion of what transpired here, as many people here have written valid points.

Stay true to your 123 year old roots (Congrats to that!) – that is the way to grow sustainable and keep you busy for the foreseeable future.

All the best to you!

PS: with zombies running around outside, there is a demand for zombie knives

 

[19-3ben]

Targeting the walmart crowd is not the same as knife enthusiasts, you will have to pick one.

Says who?


KAI and Spyderco have knives that cater to the "Walmart crowd" up to offerings that are well beyond the budget of most buyers, and made everywhere from China to USA. Same with many other brands as well. I don't see any reason a company has to stick to one price point and one target audience. If that were the case, GM would never make both Chevy and Caddilac, and you'd never see both a Lincoln and a Ford.

Look, I think OFFICIAL_KA-BAR 's reply is pretty compelling as to how busy they are. It fails to address things like why China rather than Taiwan, why 8cr vs. AUS8, etc... I get that the USA factory is too busy to make all of these designs with 1095CV in the USA, but outsourcing to spread the manufacturing load and get product out the door doesn't answer the question of why certain down-market choices were made.

So yes, Kabar is crazy busy, and major major kudos to them for putting in the insane level of work it has taken to keep things going. I still don't understand how that translates into certain choices they've made, but I'm very glad and relieved to hear that the downmarket products aren't supplanting the good stuff, and that they are just in addition to the stuff I'd like to see. It's a relief to my mind, and if it means the products we do want will still be available, I can live with certain crap having Kabar's name on it.

I remember when the market crashed in 2008-9 and people stopped having the disposable income to buy sports cars. I was appalled when Porsche started producing SUVs. They were a classic sports car company, so how could they. The answer is that their decision to product SUV's which was expected to totally taint their name, and destroy the value of their brand, actually did no such thing. It kept the cash flowing in so that they could continue producing some of the finest sports cars on the planet. They could have stuck to tradition and let the company die. But they didn't. They diversified, opened up a new market base, and survived because of it.

Will I buy one of these Chinese made 8cr generic blah knives that happens to have kabab's name stamped on it? Hell no. Not on your life. But am I glad that others will so that the company can survive and keep producing the good stuff? Yes. I'd hate for Kabar to turn into another story like Schrade... or Camillus...

 

[Yo Mama]

And then a china made pot metal Becker folder?!?!?! Wait we have been asking for a Becker folder for ever and the bk40 is literally a sandwich of garbage. Lame wire clip also......

Kabar, you are throwing away your name.

 

[numberthree]

AUS8 is pot metal?

 

[1066vik]

AUS8 is pot metal?

um, no -- I've never heard anything but praises of the KaBar Dozier Folding Hunter series and those are made with AUS8.
So are several other highly regarded budget & not-so-budget knives by other companies.

it takes a killer edge and has decent edge retention for most folks' daily tasks.

 

[GeofS]

That new State & Union titanium flipper being featured on Instagram today is a definitive step in the right direction, OFFICIAL_KA-BAR . Looks like the Mark 98 mixed with a Spartan Harsey Folder. I want one! Or four!

 

[Chris_Texas]

Earlier today I was watching a video filmed at this year's blade show. KBar was featured and they showcased a folder that looked interesting. I didn't catch the name or model, but it looked very cool, so I headed over to a few different retail sites to find and order it.

I never did see any knives that matched my memory of the video, but what I did see kinda disappointed me. Lots of cheap knives, some perhaps even made on China.

 

[soc_monki]

AUS8 is pot metal?

No, the aus8 is fine. My issue with the bk40 is that it costs $40, but is nowhere near as nice as an Ontario Rat that cost $28. Plus the Rat was made in Taiwan. Has no blade play, super smooth action and solid lockup. The bk40 is hard to deploy (detent is stiff, may break in a bit), has what seems to be a half stop (I assume for batonning, or maybe it's by accident? It's annoying though...), and has vertical blade play when open. Tolerances are off, pivot stud is keyed but not the liners (???), stop pin channel in the blade is oversized, causing the blade play.

It's not a $40 knife. $20 all day imo. I really love the ergos, blade, etc. I can even live with the wire clip! I want to use it and love it, but every time I open it it is disappointing.

Maybe I got a dud? It is functional, and came very sharp (as all my Kabars have). I just think the bk40 deserves to at least be made in Taiwan, or at least have the tolerances tightened up.

I love all my Beckers and my Dog's Head. I will continue to support Kabar, but I won't hold back on the bk40. The Becker line deserves better.

 

[TradTrapper]

Honest question, as I’m hoping for a little insight into the knife industry. What is it about folding knives that make them seemingly unprofitable to be made in the USA? Kabar, Ontario, ESEE are all brands that pride themselves on being US made, but can’t seem to figure out how to make folders in the States. Spyderco seems to have doubled-down on their Chinese made production.

Why can they make fixed blades in the States but seemingly not folders?

 

[dug24]

It's not that they can't make folders in the USA. Benchmade and Spyderco make several folders in the US. Problem is the cost gets too high for the average Ka-Bar buyer. Then the sales are low and the model gets discontinued.