OT: Convexing a kitchen knife... or not

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I was sharpening a kitchen knife the other day in the same manner I sharpen khukuries. I noticed that the stainless steel did not behave the same way as the carbon goodness from Nepal. The stainless was harder and didn't change shape as well as carbon steel. Do you sharpen a kitchen knife the same way as your khukuri? Or is it better to leave them non-convexed?

I gots to know. :) :confused:
 
Bruise, all of my stainless kitchen knive seem a little too thin to take a decent convex edge. I steel them often, and when they too dull, give them a few passes on the belt sander. They ARE a lot harder to sharpen.
 
Bruise my friend I just sharpen our kitchen knives and don't pay attention so ours is probably convexed. Most generally we use a steel, both grooved and smooth, and don't pay much attention to the angles with them either, just steel them until they are sharp.

I did learn the other day from reading the great sharpening thread someone posted that we have been using our smooth steel the wrong way. They're supposed to be used like a strop with the edge trailing instead the edge facing towards the direction you're steeling.

Not much help ainnit.:rolleyes: ;) :foot:

Edit:
Like Aardvark when they get too dull a couple of swipes on the slack belt grinder takes care of them.:thumbup:
 
Bruise, I feel your pain. My fiance' was tired of me being underfoot and decided to send me out to the garage to sharpen a few of her smaller kitchen knives. Horrible stainless steel monstrosities. Give me a good carbon steel or even a 440C and I can put an edge on it that will shave the print off newspaper. These things were horrible. I tried a butchers steel and stropping them...nope. I finally got mad and took a medium stone followed by a fine stone..still crappy dull. Finally, I took one of my JKM's thinned out the edge and put a small convex microbev on it, stropped it to a razors edge, then coated it with a few passes of wax and gave it to her. Her eyes lit up when she saw "her kitchen knife". Before i passed it off to her, "Not in the dishwasher, not in the diswasher, not in the dishwasher. Rinse this as soon as you are done with it with plain soap and water. No scrubbers on this. TOWEL dry and put away". She loved it.
Now, I'm just going to have to contract Dan with some of the wedding money for a nice kitchen knife and set of steak knives;)
So in short, I like my kitchen knives convexed to some degree. I can keep them up better. However, the knife steel has to lend itself to this...or at least lend itself to my degree of skill (nada). Of course, i convex everything from khuks to SAKs. YMMV:)

Jake
 
BruiseLeee said:
Smooth steel? I've never seen one. Where would I purchase such fine products? :)
Bruise, this is a reference to another one of Sarge's dirty tricks to get us to make things out of old files (I swear, I'm always surprised when a see one at a garage sale: I thought he already had them all). The link is:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=363567
in a thread titled "Man, this thing can kill somebody. New Kukhri pix" (09/07/05). The picture is at the bottom of the first page.

There's also a link to handamerican, that explains the proper way to use it on a blade.

I made one of the burnishers, based on Sarge's instructions. It turned out sort of OK, but it's obvious I need some more practice.

Email if you want me to make you one.
 
There are some threads over on foodieforums about sharpening kitchenknives. In general I think they recommend waterstones say a 1000/6000 grit combo stone, keeping a consistent angle so no convex edges.
Steeling is more to realign the edge from what I understand, if you have a kitchenknife with hard steel this might not be so important.
The angles you want depends on what kind of knife and how hard it is, say maybe 15 degrees total for a nice hard japanese kitchenknife that wont run into any bones, 25 for a regular stainless of decent quality and 35 for a butcheringknife that will meet bones.
 
Personally, I put a micro-bevel on kitchen knives, whether convex or flat. Make sense?

Most of my kitchen knives are thin, so no sense in trying to get a wide bevel on it. I put on a quick micro-convex edge and every once in a while give it a stropping to put it back into shape.

That said, my good kitchen knives are all hardened around 59-61 Rockwell. My cheap off-the-shelf kitchen knives are hardened somewhere in the 40's Rockwell. So, when I sharpen those - or other people's kitchen knives, I put on a thicker bevel than I would with a harder-edged knife, for durability's sake.

I wouldn't mind trying out some japanese water stones, and I do know that a good edge can be put on with one. But it does take time and skill, as well as a good knife to start with.

I wouldn't subject my henckells stuff to waterstone technique...it loses its edge sitting on the counter....:rolleyes:




forgot to add: link to http://www.kosterknives.com/convexedge.htm for more explanation on what I mean by convex micro-bevel.
 
Daniel Koster said:
...But it does take time and skill...

Both in short supply with me. :(

Thanks for the info, links, and offers of making a steel. Why didn't I think of it before? I could just use a the chakma as the smooth steel instead of saving it for torturing people.

leevalleytools.com had a cheap carbon steel kitchen knife about a year ago. I should go looking for those. :)
 
BruiseLeee said:
Smooth steel? I've never seen one. Where would I purchase such fine products? :)

Two Oxen has a nice hard chrome smooth steek and is what we have. I opted for the flat one that isn't really flat but a very slight oval shape.
The hard chrome is 64 Rc which beats most anything else except a piece of round smooth carbide.:thumbup: :D

Our Kitchen Knives are all Two Oxen and I recommend them highly compared to the other popular kitchen knives like Wostenholm, Global, etc.:cool:

Edit:
Here's a couple of links to the flat steels, kinda hard to find..
http://www.twoxen.it/bin/x.cgi/pager/item/5hastee/5239-24-642181886?item=673-27.5~0

http://www.twoxen.it/bin/x.cgi/pager/item/5hastee/5239-24-642181886?item=674-27.5~0
 
Two Oxen knives state the blade steel in their kitchen knives is X45Cr15MoV is that a high carbon stainless?

I saw in a catalog Old Hickory knives still made carbon steel kitchen knives. Anyone use any of these before?
 
Trained from part-time work in a deli, I used to give everything 2 swipes with a steel before I used it. Now, once/month I'll take maybe 4-5 strokes with a 1000 waterstone.

Thanks to this place, I've been using the steel a lot less, and burnishing the edge instead when I pull a knife out of the knife block. Works a charm.
 
I have a couple good kitchen knives. The rest of the stuff deserves nothing more than a mechanical swipe through a 30 dollar electric sharpener.


munk
 
A razor-sharp kitchen knife is a disaster waiting to happen, I think. Unless you are a trained chef, it's too easy to get slightly careless when preparing dinner (and sampling the wine) and I've had what would normally be a minor nick turn into a gusher with a knife that was sharper than necessary. Common sense should prevail over dogma here.

I have a few Old Hickories in the kitchen, and they are made from good carbon steel the way they used to be. They are a real Bargain, IMO. Kinda old-fashioned shapes, however. The first kitchen knife I ever bought when I was in college was an Old Hickory. I still have it.

Hand America sells a very nice combo steel that is half super smooth, half micro-grooved. Works very nicely on a blade that already has a fairly fine, thin edge like from a Norton Fine India stone. Water-stones are great for wood workers who like to impress their friends with impossibly sharp plane irons. Very expensive and a pain to maintain, and not very useful in the kitchen- IMO.
Keep an eye open at flea markets, garage sales and re-sale shops for old sharpening steels. Old grungy ones can often be refurbished with SiC paper if not badly pitted by rust.
 
Sharpness is one of those topics that gets everyone excited. A lot of you like your khuks shaving sharp. Bill used to say he liked his RAZORS to shave with, and his khuks to chop wood with.

I hadn't thought about a kitchen knife being too sharp, but I wouldn't want my wife to handle an extremely sharp blade in the manner she is used to handling knives with. (She's of the 'slice, heat and throw away' Generation)

A dull knife can be a very dangerous knife. So can a sharp one.



munk
 
BruiseLeee said:
Two Oxen knives state the blade steel in their kitchen knives is X45Cr15MoV is that a high carbon stainless?

I saw in a catalog Old Hickory knives still made carbon steel kitchen knives. Anyone use any of these before?

Bruise I don't know if Two Oxen's steel is high carbon stainless though they claim it is. Our knives keep and hold a good edge as long as they are used properly with a cutting board.
Barbie now likes very nice and highly sharpened kitchen knives since she has found out how much easier the job is with them.

I also can't speak highly enough of the Old Hickory Knives!!!! They are indeed *Excellent!!!!*
They are however more care intensive than the stainless knives which is one reason I bought the Two Oxen.
We have lots of people over once a month and mistakes are made with our stainless plastic handled knives that the Old Hickory wouldn't tolerate.
You can't let them soak in water and they need to be wiped off after every use and especially if used cutting acidic veggies like tomatoes or onions.
I love the patina they develop.:thumbup: :D
Also the handles need oiled down with mineral or vegetable oil fairly frequently to help keep them in shape.
For the price I don't think you can buy a better knife.
I recommended the Old Hickory Line for a single friend of ours with not a lot of money.
 
Yvsa said:
Two Oxen has a nice hard chrome smooth steek and is what we have. I opted for the flat one that isn't really flat but a very slight oval shape.
The hard chrome is 64 Rc which beats most anything else except a piece of round smooth carbide.:thumbup: :D

Our Kitchen Knives are all Two Oxen and I recommend them highly compared to the other popular kitchen knives like Wostenholm, Global, etc.:cool:

Edit:
Here's a couple of links to the flat steels, kinda hard to find..
http://www.twoxen.it/bin/x.cgi/pager/item/5hastee/5239-24-642181886?item=673-27.5~0

http://www.twoxen.it/bin/x.cgi/pager/item/5hastee/5239-24-642181886?item=674-27.5~0

But those do not look smooth at all...:confused:

The ones I got from Hand American are mirror finished...
 
BruiseLeee said:
Two Oxen knives state the blade steel in their kitchen knives is X45Cr15MoV is that a high carbon stainless?

I saw in a catalog Old Hickory knives still made carbon steel kitchen knives. Anyone use any of these before?

You beat me too it!
I was going to recomend them... Most of their knives can be had for under $10.00 !!!

A little sandpaper to the grips and they will be perfect!

I just got a skinning knive from them that I am going to turn into a Nessmuk knife.
 
My Jure sees daily kitchen duty and it is indeed convexed. Personally, I prefer a different grind on kitchen knives; the edge has a tendency to "wander" to one side or the other if you're not careful. When I'm chopping up meat and such it doesn't much matter but when I'm slicing up veggies I pride myself on making neat, even cuts - difficult for me to do with a convex edge.

I use a Japanese kitchen knife from Lee Valley to handle all the light duty stuff. High carbon core with stainless laminations, very thin and very hard...it takes a great edge and holds it.

I've only sharpened the Japanese knife once (after chipping it out by being careless) and the Jure twice, once upon receipt and once again a few days ago. Spyderco stones handled both jobs admirably. Typically I strop both of them every couple of days. That's all that's required for months on end.

My stainless kitchen knives (including my beloved cleaver) and the steels I used on them? They all gather dust. I don't care what the FDA says, I don't like using stainless in the kitchen, period. Just my preference.
 
I like the Old Hickory too...good honest steel and when they end up in the dishwasher as kitchen knives sometimes do, easy enough to sand down and reoil and wax.

I do convex them BTW...a very small convex, but convex.
 
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