OT: handguns, chime in with opinions please

Bobwhite

Bobwhite

Joined
Nov 30, 1999
Messages
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OK guys, I got out of debt and I am looking for a handgun for home defense and occasional carry. I want a .45 acp. I have it narrowed down to three options. A Springfield 1911, a Sig 220 or a HK USP45. What are your guys opinions?
 
Bob, any of them you listed would get the job done in spades. Get what you can afford and practice with it regular, the gun's only as good as the guy holding it. My $169 Bulgarian Makarov will put all rounds in the head of a silhouette target at twenty five meters, but only after burning up some ammo gaining proficiency with it.

Sarge
 
Figure out how much weight you want to carry and for how long. Then figure out how light you can go and still shoot. There's an entire breed of .45 shorties you may wish to examine.


I own a .45 1911 Springfield. I'd probably get a Kimber today. That sig 220 is real nice. I have no experience with the HK. It is highly rated.


munk
 
As the Sarge said, any of those will work, as will pretty much any good-quality handgun. Go for the one that fits your hand the best and feels most comfortable. I used to use 1911s but have switched to Glocks for simplicity. So I'd suggest looking at a Glock 21, 30, or 36 if you haven't. The 36 is a slimmer single-stack design.

Of your 3 I'd probably go with the 1911, and take a look at Kimber. The HK USP45 just always seemed huge to me for what it does. The compact version is a little better. Lots of people like Sigs but they've never done much for me, I don't like the decocker/double action on any pistol. But I've never used a 220.
 
All of your choices are good ones. I own a full size raced out Springfield, a Sig 220 and just bought a Kimber CDP Ultra 2. That covers all of the size ranges I could ever dream of. Sigs are a great choice. My 220 will keep up with the Springfield any day in my hands. It remains to be seen how I fair with my Kimber. If you want a 1911 style .45, either Springfield or Kimber are great factory choices. For non 1911's, Sig and HK both are great. Practice with whatever you get on a regular basis so the act of shooting it is second nature. Especially with the loads you intend to use for defence. Have fun at the range!:D :cool:
 
You should also consider the Glock 30 (compact and has double stack mag--12 rounds with the extension) or the Glock 36 (single stack mag--7 rounds with extension) Both 45ACP and excellent carry guns. Simple operation with no external safeties to worry about.
:) :)
 
Like Sarge says practice is everything.

I'm a fan of the 1911. I've always felt comfortable with it.

Not knowing your firearms background: be advised, as a single action semi-automatic it takes a little more care and thought in it's deployment than the double-action mode of the other two pistols you mentioned do (by the way, they are both well thought of weapons). You'll have to decide what condition to have it in for use; ie. cocked & locked, hammer down or chamber empty.
To me "cocked and locked" is the way to go, but some people are uncomfortable carrying a cocked pistol. If you do so, I recommend a holster who's keeper fits between the hammer and receiver. I've never liked "hammer down"; you have to lower the hammer on a live round and the firing pin was resting on the primer in older pistols (pre series 80 Colts/clones), without a firing pin block. "Chamber empty" is by far safest but as imagined slowest and loudest to deploy.

The double action pistols both have decockers (safely lowers the hammer) and block the firing pin. To carry and fire the first round double action, they are much like a revolver, in that you simply need to pull the trigger through it's arc. I believe the HK has several modes of operation available (sa, da, dao) but it seems pretty large. I've only handled one not fired it. I like the SIG 9mms. The ones I have handled and shot were outstanding. I see no reason their 45 would be any different.

Regards,
Greg
 
Sir, I don't abide by hand guns, but I don't want to step on the toes of a man that wants to pertect his family. All I can do is tell you what I do. The minimum length of a shot gun barrel by law is 18 1/4 inches. I have 18 1/2 on my winchester 1300 pump. With a pistol grip and a combat sling standing sideways it only sticks out about 8 inches in front of me and there is less of a chance I'll miss. No need for hand gun permits. I live in NY where its almost inpossible to get a carry permit without knowing people. You see to me a hand gun is just for killing a man. With a shot gun I can fool myself into believing I just have to put the stock barrel and rifle stock back on and it has other uses. But it stays as is with a clip on shell carrier next to my bed . There are no kids in my house so I dont have to worry about them. I leave it unloaded so I don't shot my own foot off when I pick it up:) One time I did have someone in my house down stairs. I came down the stairs and racked one in the chamber on the steps and all I heard were running feet. The house was empty and the front door wide open. I think it must have been a educated burgler becuase he recognized the sound of a 12 guage shell being lock and loaded. As for taking somethine with me, I dont. I just avoid places where I would need something like that. Good luck to you Sir. If you want a hand gun go to www.magnumresearch.com click on products at the bottom of the page and look at the baby eagle. They dont make them any better.
 
I vote for the SIG. The 220 is a big gun if you want to carry comfortably, maybe you could look at the 245 which is a smaller version in .45 which would carry much better and be more comfortable IMO! You also might want to look at SIGS/other guns in .40 as the .40 hits just as hard and with some loads even harder than the .45. It is a little smaller bullet but opperates under higher pressures, basicly the .45 reinvented to be smaller but as powerfull.

I carry the Sig 229 in .40 and my wife carries the 239 in 9mm. I have owned many different brands and styles of guns in the past couple of years and doing things like limp wristing and shooting in the mud ect. I have made every gun from Glock, Beretta, Springfield, Ruger to Kimber I have owned to jam on me except that 229 which has never jamed/misfired is some really bad conditions! I'd bet my life on it!
I have sense sold my other guns and I only shoot the Sigs now. I'm sure most other guns would be fine in most all conditions I just like to know the gun will work when most neglected...if it ever came down to that. I baby my HG's now and just keep them clean and any of the guns you mentioned will serve you well! Good luck and happy gun hunting!
 
A handgun is for halting a killer. If you're a killer, naturally a handgun is only to kill men and women. A handgun is easier to carry for out of doors protection against bad men and dangerous animals. It is for hunting, target, and recreational use. Lastly, it is for the back bone that upholds the amendments to the Constitution.

The 1300 is a nice shotgun. I don't care for pistol grips, as what you gain in percieved mobility you lose in control while firing.

Arguing the moral merits of a handgun vs a short shotgun would seem a playground for philosophers and politicians.

I respect mattjerom's choice and am glad he is using the second amendment.

Studies find the rack of a shot gun an almost universally recognized sound amongst criminals.


munk
 
I always protected my family with an S&W .357 near my bed. When my wife and I went on late night walks, I would stick a Berretta .22 or a National belt buckle .22 in my pocket.

But government storm troopers broke into my house and stole my guns. Now I have a baseball bat and a khukuri for protection.

My plan is to knock him down with the club and chop off his head with the knife.

If there is more than one invader, I'm screwed.
 
I used to have a Colt 1911 and Beretta 92 in 9mm, and a few old .22 target pistols. I sold all my stuff back when I was a student full time. It took me a few years to get to where I am totally out of debt, so now it is time to pick up an old hobby again. I like to target shoot, but now I want the option to carry. I got my carry permit as of last Monday. I believe in the have one gun and know it inside and out philosophy, so whatever I get will get used A LOT. I guess I will go looking this weekend and see which guns feel best in my hand and then shoot them if possible. The factors that are most important to me are accuracy, reliability and ease of maintenance. Thanks for the input and keep it coming.
 
I have used my hand gun for some hunting. We used to go up to Wyoming and go after some prairie dogs with the .243 but we would also try to get the closer ones with the hand guns or the AR's and AK's!!! I guess you could call us red necks....well some times!:D

Also used the HG to get rid of cyotes at the inlaws farm and just for some good ol' fun shooting tin cans or an old junked up car!

They also make great paper weights!
 
These gentlemen know .45s far better than I do, but...keep wall penetration in mind when you use something for home defense. Plasterboard does not even slow down most handgun slugs..? maybe glaziers?....dunno.

I lived in an apartment building next to an apartment of baby cops. They were at the stage of buying GUNS !!! Often, I'd come home and get intercepted by one of them telling me to go look under their sofa cushion...and find things like an Auto-mag...!

I PRAYED that no one would attempt a burglary there. I would have been "collateral damage."

and last...Gary Player, golf legend, once made a very difficult shot from the woods up on to the green. A spectator said, "Lucky shot." Player is reputed to have turned to the guy and said, "Yes, and you know, the more I practice, the luckier I get."

Be safe and well.
 
I carried a Colt 1911A1 for years and then I had a chance to use a friends FN Hi-Power. I was most impressed as the Hi-Power has all the features of the 1911 and many improvements.
I know it's only in 9mm but I can carry three 17rnd Magazines, one in the pistol and two spares, all in a fairly concealable manner.
I like the idea of that much firepower being available when I need it.
I tried the SIG P220 and it wasn't comfortable in my hand. I also tried the Wide-Body 1911 types and They felt to bulky.
My final choice went to the HP, a very high quality pistol and one that won't let you down. It's also available in .40S&W which is about as good as the .45. I think if I was to replace my 9mm HP it would be with the .40 Hi-Power.
 
The ten millimeter was an attempt to modernize the .45 acp. Jeff Cooper has a classic line about that in Nosler nmber 3, while being instrumental in the design of the new gun to fire the hotter cartridge, the illfated Bren Ten, he says something like, "I fear we did not stop to ask ourselves why we would wish to do this." (attempt to recreate the .45) The 10 was a wonderfull cartridge which has become an orphan.

The .40 was the industrial and successful attempt to save money and reduce gun size offering the reduced power mandated by the FBI when the original 10 proved too much. The 41 Action Express was also a great attempt at a modern defensive cartridge, and was used on nine mill frames, but was crushed by marketing strategies by US ammunitions and firearms manufacturers. I think Israel had some problems getting ammo and barrels over here in sinq.

The only bad rap about the .40 is lack of accuracy compared to the .45 It has a reputation as being difficult to load for accuracy. As its recoil is about the same as the .45, unless you were gaining more rounds in the mag, I don't see the point. The weight and diameter of the .45 seems an advantage too clear to give up.

I've noticed little guns, even firing the nine, have a bite to them.


munk the babbler
 
Kimber Compact Aluminum...but you need a H.I Villager to go with it to make it work right
sweet-236.jpg
 
There are factory loads available for almost every handgun cartridge popular that take into account thin walls. The .40 actually penetrates better than the .45 acp.


munk
 
Bob, if you want accuracy, reliability and easy maintenance the Sig is all of those! When it is broken down it has 4 parts for cleaning, the slide, faime, barrol and recoil spring. Glock also has all of these and might even be a little more simple so look at it also and just be aware the the glock has the "internal hammer" so you can not de-cock the gun and then shoot it in double action, this is a single action gun only, kind of like a 1911 but much more simple. The 1911's have a ton parts to break down for cleaning compaired to guns like Glock, Sig and the Springfield XD searies of pistol so it is not really a gun you want to break down in the field but that is just my opinion...to many parts.

Sorry, I won't push the Sig on you any more it's just the gun I swear by! Good luck
 
Bobwhite, I think you are right to try on the various weapons mentioned here first to see which one fits in the hand best. There have been no dogs allowed, and that is going to be the most important factor. Some shootingranges have renters you can try too.




munk
 
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