ot. military combat axes {with pix.}

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Nov 29, 2002
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After reading Yoipparis post on axe styles, I though these may be of some interest to you enthusiastic chopper fans. :D

LtoR.

ww1 German trench axe. {issued to mortar crews.} also used in hand to hand trench warfare..

Victoran Royal Navy boarding axe used for boarding enemy ships, general close combat & raiding parties.

ww2, army issue fire axe,

1939 Air Ministry crash axe, used to cut oneselves out of the downed bombers.{reputedly carried by some Special forces for sentry elimination, scene entry ,combat, general vandalism & mayhem! .}

Spiral

2004-11-14_170932_axes.jpg
 
Nice collection and interesting to compare differences.

Can you explain why the Air Ministry axe has such an oddly-shaped blade? I'm assuming the hole in the center is simply for weight reduction.
 
Sure Satori,

The 1939 AM axe is shaped like that so that once it cuts through the fusilage, because of the shape of the blade edge it can be levered back out, cutting the metal further & most importantly not getting traped in the hole its just cut.

Standard axe blades apparently often get stuck , when cutting through sheet metal, which must be rather alarming when you trying to chop yourself out of a shot down bomber, possibly on fire in enemy terrotry!

As well as weight reduction, the hole possibly aids fixing within the planes fuselage. {my speculation as I cant yet find photo of how they were fixed.}

Spiral
 
wouldn't ya'll love for the kamis to do a spike hawk? c'mon guys!

;)
 
Dave Hahn said:
wouldn't ya'll love for the kamis to do a spike hawk? c'mon guys!

;)
There will never be an HI Spike 'Hawk because of the near impossibility of them all taking the same sized haft.:(
Bill and I have talked about this to an extreme in the past when he was well enough to take on such a project, even too the point of just getting the 'Hawk heads and letting everyone put their own hafts in them. We even discussed buying hafts from Crazy Crow Trading Post and sending them over so the 'Hawks could be fitted. There are just no viable solutions.:(

On the subject of 'Hawks though... I have one very similar to the WW II, army issue fire axe.:D
My cuz cut a double bit axe in two in such a way as too be able to get two 'Hawks from it. Mine is the traditional style as seen and he kept the other half which has a straight spike, weird looking thing but deadly as hell!!!!:cool: :D :cool:
I guess I need to take a pic of all my 'Hawks and post it one of these days.
 
Spiral will you be so kind as to post the specs for the WW II, Army Issue Axe and how it is mounted too the haft?
It sorta looks like it is a thinner sort of head with a full solid tang that mounts into a slot in the haft to me. Is that correct or does it have the traditional "eye" to mount the haft?

Also any idea of their worth and rarity? I have yet to see any of them that you pictured.:(
 
out of my own ignorance, i have hafted my own axe heads with hickory handles that I have purchased from Cdn Tire. I had to work adjusting the fit but it isn't really that difficult.

why not have forumites haft their own 'hawks?

i've done it with a saw and a chisel/hammer to adjust it. no fancy power tools.

maybe i'm missing something?
 
Dave Hahn said:
why not have forumites haft their own 'hawks?

maybe i'm missing something?
Dave not everyone has the skill to make their own haft's.
We each are born with our individual talents and during the course of our lives we can often learn others, but some people just can't quite grasp the mechanical skills as some of us, like me, can't grasp the mental skills others have.:(

Believe me, Bill and I discussed the subject until all avenues were exhausted. And that was when Bill had the energy to put into such a project. With Bill's condition today it's just likely to never happen. Sorry.
 
Yvsa said:
Dave not everyone has the skill to make their own haft's.
We each are born with our individual talents and during the course of our lives we can often learn others, but some people just can't quite grasp the mechanical skills as some of us, like me, can't grasp the mental skills others have.:(

Believe me, Bill and I discussed the subject until all avenues were exhausted. And that was when Bill had the energy to put into such a project. With Bill's condition today it's just likely to never happen. Sorry.

no worries Yvsa. Thanks.

but i can still dream!

;)
 
Hi Yvsa, The Brit. ww2 Fire axe is 2lb 8 oz. in weight although they were made by 10 or more contracters in ww2 & through the 1950s. With subsequent variations in weight. most are nearer 2lbs.

This one feels lighter as the balance point is 9.5 in. from base of handle.

This one I upgraded to as it appears unused, & is made by Gilpin who also made my 1891 boarding axe. ;)

It is 15.25 in.long with a head length of 8.25 in. blade edge is 2 & 7/8thswide.

Consruction is flat forged & milled steel with a tang that gets narrower within the hard rubber handle & runs down to within an inch of handle base. Totaly inclosed in 20,000 volt protected rubber. :rolleyes:

2004-11-14_210413_DSCF0183.jpg



The ww1 Germam is rare & valuble , but can be found from specialist internet dealers at ridiculous prices.

The Boarding axe is so rare ,I may never see another one in my life, & would be of great value to some Naval collectors.although luckily ,I found both for just a few pounds. ;) :D

The ww2 {& later}Fire axe is fairly easy to find in England & normaly sells for $20to $50 depending on condition & where sold. {most are rusted or with cut battered rubber.}& the Air minestry is rarer but are available normaly at around $30 to $50. The more maker & military markings on any of them though the greater the value. {the markings on this one would take it up to $100}

original belt Pouches add more to the value.

Heres a photo of the German axe attachment as well, unusual but highly effective.{imho} Would take a lot of abuse & leverage.

2004-11-14_210434_DSCF0184.jpg


The ww2 BRIT. axes will turn up on worldwide ebay quite often, but whach out for damaged rubber & blade pitting. The postage from the UK is a bugger as well. :( {should be about $25}

Spiral

2004-11-14_214130_DSCF0185.jpg
 
Hmm. Nice stuff. A friend is a commercial airline pilot, I can affirm in the cockpit of modern jetliners is also a "crash axe" with a skeletonized head, he said to save weight but the other exp. is interesting.

He said he would have used it in self-defense on 911, had he been in one of the four. :( But I wonder if any had time.

AA
 
A friend of mine once showed me an axe that purportedly had been in his family for many, many generations. As he explained to me, over all those years it has had several new hafts and a couple of heads replaced. ;)
 
Thanks Spiral.:D Really interesting as I wasn't aware that such things existed. They're on the heavy side to replace most historical 'Hawks but could be used in a pinch. A few of the old 'Hawks were quite large albeit thin and I assume light.
 
Indeed so Yvsa! The Boarding axe is probably the truest combat axe amongst them at 26 oz. and 18 inches long.

The ww2 Brit Fire axe is 3/8ths thick.

Would be interested to see your hawks sometime. ;)

Thats Interesting Ad Astra,wonder how similar they are?

Cheers.
Spiral
 
Spiral,

Your fourth pattern, the Air Ministry axe, was a pattern also adopted by the U.S. Air Force as "Fire Crash Axe, Hand Emergency 42D8331" and was issue equipment at least as late as September, 1999.

Tom
 
Thanks Tom.

Using that code you offer ,I found this.

crash axe

Almost identicle article. It also listed still as spares for the Boing 737

Fascinating . Mines the Air ministry ,crash axe, hand 21f/1 dated 1939 made by Chillington, to there 1938 patent. It must have been a good design! still going strong 66 years later!

Spiral
 
Just based on shape alone, I like the fire ax best.

I have one of the HI axes made about 3.5 years ago. (The one in the pic w/ Oleg and Scott.) Had to have a new haft made...

John
 
I like 1, 3, and 4. The crash axe makes me think of a bearded axe taken a little too far (that means I like it). Two though, while most likely the best fighter, just isn't my taste. I like the shape of one's handle. The pick makes me think of a war hammer (thats a good thing).

Where do you find stuff like this? Garage sales? Estate sales? EBAY?!
 
Spiraltwista -- thanks for the response. That makes sense. As far as mounting the axe on a bulkhead, one idea is a short post extending from the bulkhead at a 90 degree angle with a triangular plate mounted on the end. Due to the asymmetrical shape of the hole and the angle the plate could be mounted at, the axe could be placed over this plate at an odd angle and rotated into its regular hanging position which could retain it. A bracket further down could secure the base of the handle. I've never seen an axe mounted precisely like this; however, I've seen other tools mounted like this. Also, in the USN, I've seen fire axes are mounted with a bracket supporting the head (using gravity) and another bracket locking the end of the handle in place. Thanks again for the pictures. I've never seen any of these axes before.

Emergency axes (fire, crash, etc.) have always impressed me. We have a standard naval fire axe at work (not sure of the pedigree but it's about the size of a maul, but considerably lighter) that one worker had "appropriated" and was thinking of grinding the spike off of because he didn't have a use for it. Another worker gave him a lecture on just how useful it was. I (being the large ogre-looking person) volunteered to demonstrate...and you all thought I only beat on khuks. :rolleyes: Cinderblocks were no problem, I shattered them in single strikes, regardless of whether the blade or spike was used. (They both tolerated it well.) Destroying a door made of exterior plywood and reinforced with 2x4's likewise took no time at all. Someone found a block of granite next to the woodshop that was too large to lift so I offered to break it up into more easily-handled chunks. It was actually challenging. The spike tended to stick in the granite like it was a soft material. It took me a good 50 full-power blows to completely shatter it. After all this, the spike was a bit dinged up but in good shape; the "owner" cleaned it up on the bench grinder after a few minutes of work and has elected to retain the spike.

I can understand why a firefighter might like something like this. You could smash your way through the side of a bank vault with one, given enough time. These are incredibly tough. I have no doubt that the earlier ones are equally tough. Overbuilt? Yes, probably, but so are Ang Kholas and I really like those too.

We tried throwing it. It's a challenge, as both arms must be used. I can stick 'hawks, large screwdrivers, even machetes, but I could not stick the fireaxe. (Some other people got a few sticks. I could not manage it.) This is probably outside of the design parameters however and I don't consider this a proper test of the tool. I believe that I'll stick (pun intended) with tomahawks for throwing.

I haven't handled any foreign or antique ones yet but if one happens to come my way, I'll be happy to thrash it upon request. :)
 
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