Our troops ARE carrying big knives

B

Bellamy17

Joined
Aug 2, 2003
Messages
62
I've read a lot of posts here about soldiers being limited to 2 inch blades on their Gerber multi-tools. Lots of anti-knife stuff like "soldiers aren't allowed to carry knives," blah blah. Well I saw an AP photo the other day in the paper of a U.S. soldier in Iraq with a good 7 inch blade attached to his vest. So I don't believe all that baloney that a soldier issued an M-16 and grenades can't carry a knife. Gimmee a break.
 
I have heard that it varies broadly, depending on their superior officers, their orders, and their deployment.
 
I thought that just applies when they're at camp stateside.
Wouldn't apply in the field.

BUT stranger things have been ordered :)
Tom
 
Confusing onpost in garrison stateside/Europe/Korea/Japan vs deployed to a warzone or in the field/etc. Limit is normally 3 to 4 inches for a folding knife in garrison (usually a local post/base regulation)...everyplace I've been, it is not checked/closely adhered to--more of something to tack on if you get in trouble with the law and they find the knife on you (just as prevalent in the civilian legal system).

And yes, if you strap a Hell's Bells Bowie to your LBE/LBV, your commander/1SG/PL/PSG/etc "might" take issue with it and off it comes. "Normal" field knives (comparative in size to an M-9 or Kabar) won't even be given a second look...if your in the field versus walking down the sidewalk to the PX...yada, yada

Glenmore
 
Everything in the military is dependent on your commander's discretion. Some commmanders don't care if you carry a khukuri while others may limit you to a SAK. They have absolute authority in this and many other areas, there's no Army policy regarding knives. In my current brigade, I am limited to a 5" blade on a deployment, and supposedly 3" or something in garrison. My unit deploys to Kuwait, not Iraq, and we're military intelligence, so our knife needs aren't as great as those of infantry for instance. Korea limited us to 4" blades, 3" if they were feeling mean. It was on the books as 3", but no one would bother you for anything under 4". Some guys got away with much bigger blades, but if someone had decided to get them in trouble, it would have happened. I had a Ka-Bar confiscated at customs as I entered the country. So believe what you want, BS such as this and many other stranger things happen every single day in the military. The don't call military intelligence an oxymoron for nothing.
 
Bellamy,
On my way to Kosovo a couple of years ago, the kind, thoughtful AF people at Ramstein AFB gave me static over my knives... a SOG Pent Elite (because it could be opened with one hand) and my Buck Nighthawk (because it was oversized.) :rolleyes: I asked for the kids supervisor, some fat POS E6 waddles up and I asked him to verify this, he said yeah. :rolleyes: I told him I was going to snap every blade I had before they collected them. He said he was just trying to help me I told him to go help someone else. :mad: I kept my blades. Funny... I was toting an M16 while he and I were having our discussion.

The size of blade on a deployment varies, the theater commander may have a rule, the CSM may have guidance or they may let the unit commanders decide. I've never seen anyone have an issue with someone carrying a 7" fixed blade. We don't usually allow larger ones because it's usually some PVT toting a crew served knife. The thing is heavy, useless and hanging him up as he tries to move.
 
BadBamaUmp, a "crew served knife!" Haven't heard that for a long time. As a former Commander in Germany, I required my troops living in the barracks to keep fixed blade knives and any personal firearms they owned, in the arms room where we stored the unit's weapons (M-16's, M-203's, M-60's, etc.) Those who wanted to take them to the field could, but they were put back in the arms room when we returned. Those soldiers living in quarters or off post could keep their knives and firearms in their posession.

Don't give me that old crap about the Army trusting you with fully automatic weapons but not a seven inch knife! One didn't let the troops walk around town with their personal weapons (M16 or M60) either! You never had to go down to the German police station and take custody of an E-4 who had just stabbed (not lethal) his German girlfriend in the leg with her own kitchen knife! He saw the inside of Leavenworth!

The Army is great on training you how to use a piece of equipment, issueing you that piece of equipment, and making you accountable for it's maintenance and ability to use it to accomplish the mission. The problem with the Army is they don't give you training on the use of a large knife (they should, but don't)! Even bayonet training is mighty short on the use of the M9 as anything but a bayonet. So if the Army doesn't train you to use something, they usually don't want to be responsible for you bringing your "personal" equipment and your subsequent misuse of it (intended or not).

I'm a great believer in carrying a knife during military operations but I am much more tolerant than most commanders.

Bruce
 
bruce, I see your point, but in a way you stab yourself in the foot (pun intended) with this quote:

You never had to go down to the German police station and take custody of an E-4 who had just stabbed (not lethal) his German girlfriend in the leg with her own kitchen knife!
Click to expand...

In the absence of his own weapon, he used the weapon at hand. Had it not been a kitchen knife it could have been a letter opener or a pencil, or he could have just started choking her. Are you going to argue that all soldiers should be handcuffed while not on duty if that were the case? The right to carry comes back to the same arguement no matter what the justification for restrictions; people's actions are the problem, not their choice of weaponry. The last thing I want to do with any of my expensive fixed blades is put them in the arms room. Either they will disapear, be damaged or not be available when I want them. Rules such as these are a large part of the reason I don't intend to re-enlist. I don't mind defending freedom, but I hate giving up most of mine in order to do so.
 
Kurt,
I wasn't going to point that out.. I'm facing a medical discharge, and I'm not going to fight it. I'm tired of the BS and the "new Army." Let me out, give me my check and let me get my vocational rehab. I'm going to check out of the net.
 
This varies greatly in the military. There are units deployed right now that won't allow ANYONE to carry knives. There are units who allow folding knives but won't allow fixed blades. And there are units who allow "non-locking" folding knives and nothing else.

It all depends on your Chain Of Command. Hell Ft. Bragg has a regulation that fixed blades can only have a 3 inch blade but you can have a folding knife with a 5 inch blade.....go figure. Thankfully that reg was little to none enforced.
 
Roadrunner, I should have clarified my point, purposely indicated. If I had let that troop carry around a large fixed blade and he had stabbed her with it, he would have gone to Leavenworth, surely, and his chain-of-command would have been spanked. As it was, the weapon was not at issue and the troop was on his own to repent for his own misdeeds.
 
Kurt,

I don't know how many years you have put in, but before you throw it away consider the Guard or Reserves. I was AD Air Force for 5 years, took a break, did one year in the Army Guard working on Cobra helicopters and then went into the Air National Guard. We have people from all services in our Unit and are better because of it. Their are good Units out there with reasonable and sensible people in Command and their goal is to keep their good people in the Unit for 20+ years, not screw you over for 2 or 3 and the PCS you. I know at least one Marine in our Intel section, a couple of guys from the 82nd and 101st Airborne with Infantry and Navy guys to spare. No adult is told what kind of knife to wear on their LBE or where to keep it when not deployed.:cool:
 
Spook, thanks for the offer, but in the Reserves you're part-time right up until you're full-time again, and then it's back to the same old stuff. I signed up for four years and that's all I want to do. The current situation, in which reservists are being used almost as much as the active force, doesn't sit well with me. Bruce, thanks for clarifying. I understand the CYA process all too well.
 
You guys in the States seem to have a lot of restrictions on what you can carry blade wise.
The British Forces have no such restrictions in the field and can carry what they like on their webbing, I wouldn't like to be told I couldn't wear something that might save my life.
One of the Royal Marine Comandos I taught kukri to, had to use his kukri in self defence in Sierra Leone, not wanting to open up with his SA80 and hurt innocent people.
However they are bound by a countries civil law outside of the barracks of duty and regs to do with inside the barracks.
 
Age old debate, it seems.

Here's the ticket, at least in my experience.

Carry pocket tool because they are useful, used, and sold commonly in the PX system. Not necessarily seen as "knives" and for good reason. They are tool.

Carry hardworking folding knife of reasonable and usable dimensions. Carry on uniform pants belt or in pouch on LBE or combat vest where it is out of sight and out of mind.

Carry good quality fixed blade of between 5" and 7" blade. This can go on combat vest or LBE. Nothing fancy. When you're shipping home just pack everything up nice and neat and don't make an issue of it.

Yes, the idiots are out there and they play their games because they can. However, twice now in Iraq and I've seen combat knives carried by all forces without concern.

The "rifle" and "knife" thing is old argument and pretty well worn out. Hey, some CO wants to store a buncha knives in the arms room, fine with me. It's CYA and that's okay as long as I have to live under his/her roof. Professional soldiers don't need a knife, or a rifle, or a grenade, or a pocket tool to take care of war fighting business. Just the proper training to use whatever is at hand.

(I did like the "her kitchen knife" story. Good reason to lock up everyone else's but "her" dinner utensils, if I read that right. Thank goodness the E4 - and it's always an E4 it seems - didn't strangle her with a pair of her own panties, yes?)

And if there isn't quality training in knife use in the unit there should be because you're issuing bayonets and allowing combat knives to be carried. But then, if such training IS provided I suppose it becomes even more important to lock up every sharp object that might be found in the barracks...damn!

Buy a pocket tool; buy a nice quality folder; buy a KA-BAR or something akin to it; and work on the basics of keeping yourself and your soldiers alive in combat.

'Cause the simple fact is this - too many officers and senior NCOs are worrying about nonsense like "knives" when they should be ensuring their young troops are getting real world, reality based war fighting training in prep for bad places like Iraq and Afghanistan. When they're spending their time and energy on getting dirty with their troops learning how to lead and fight with them, they haven't the time nor inclination to worry over "knives".

GW
 
NIB, I was at Bragg in the 80's and we were allowed to carry any size blades, with the exception of jumping. Then we had to have a reenforced sheath on the bottom so the blade tip won't penetrate though. It just goes to show you that there are different rules at different places. A lot of it is because commanders want uniformity. Also probrably too much PC going on in the wrong places.
 
The US military doesn't issue knives as standard equipment. In some cases, commanders will equip personnel in their unit with knives from their budget. An example would be Navy SEALS. I sell lots of knives to Navy SEAL teams. They are often ordered by the commander. During the initial attack on Iraq, we shipped hundreds of pilot survival knives to the aircraft carriers so that pilots would be so equipped. These orders also came from the commanders. The vast, vast majority of knives, however, are ordered and paid for by individual service people. I know because I ship lots of them every day. We ship everything from military bowies to Case pocket knives to Swiss Army knives and anything in between. I've even shipped a few swords to Iraq. For the most part, these knives are bought by soldiers to be carried by them on a day to day basis. I know of no rules regarding knives since the DOD doesn't issue them officially at all. Personnel simply buy what they want or units buy what their commanders want.
 
Greg, I'll tell you why it's always an E-4! Privates are still awed and submissive, sergeants think they know it all (many do!). It's that transitional E-4 (no longer any kind of private, but not quite an NCO yet either, even if some claim corporals are NCO's) that start to push the envelope. They are the "teenagers" of the enlisted ranks, Captains are the equivilent commissioned officer rank (to a teenager, I mean).

Bruce
 
...interesting.

I still think it's a good thing he didn't strangle her with her panties.

Man, I'd hate to be the armorer who would have to account for everyone's "deadly weapon" underwear.

GW
 
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