paper sharpening wheels - when your time is important to you

Hi Richard my name is Ron Years ago I shared paper wheels with Art Summers.He helped me make my first knife grinder.Used it today.Glad to hear things have worked out so well for you .I'm still useing my paper wheels after 30 years.
 
2beagles121 said:
Hi Richard my name is Ron Years ago I shared paper wheels with Art Summers.He helped me make my first knife grinder.Used it today.Glad to hear things have worked out so well for you .I'm still useing my paper wheels after 30 years.
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Hi Ron, I'm not Richard, but wanted to let you know that he has had some problems with his computer equipment. I'm sure that this is the reason that he has not responded to anyone lately.
One quick question of you please. Do you live in the same town as Art. The reason I ask is because I do and would like to meet him sometime.

Romo
 
No I live in Ohio.Art moved to I think S Carolina. Anyway you can look him up on the web At Art Summers knives.
 
Huge thread! My questions:

  1. I'm in Australia where we cannot get variable speed or slow speed bench grinders (AFAIK). What then? We use 240V, not 110V, so importing a slow grinder is not an option unless I want to get involved in getting a transformer (voltage converter) as well
  2. I've recently bought a Work Sharp + numerous belts for it. It can quickly sharpen knives to shaving condition .... why would I want to get paper wheels instead? Who has moved from the Work Sharp to paper wheels, and why?

Thanks!

Work-Sharp.jpg
 
GerryM said:
Huge thread! My questions:

  1. I'm in Australia where we cannot get variable speed or slow speed bench grinders (AFAIK). What then? We use 240V, not 110V, so importing a slow grinder is not an option unless I want to get involved in getting a transformer (voltage converter) as well
  2. I've recently bought a Work Sharp + numerous belts for it. It can quickly sharpen knives to shaving condition .... why would I want to get paper wheels instead? Who has moved from the Work Sharp to paper wheels, and why?

Thanks!

Work-Sharp.jpg
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How do you run your Work Sharp? It is 120 volt is it not. I have both, and use the work sharp to do major re profiles, and then finish on the paper wheels. The wheels give a much sharper finish than the Work Sharp. If the Work Sharp gives you a blade as sharp as you need, then the wheels may not be needed. I only use the WSKTS to re profile knives and to sharpen garden tools, which it does great on. For my knives, once I get them sharp, I often only have to run them on the slotted wheel to get them back to razor sharp. No need to re grind and remove excess metal, when the slotted wheel will usually bring back that original sharpness, as long as I stay on top of my knives and do not let them get too dull.

If I were you, I would find a local motor that will run 3600 rpm or less and use that. My grinder motor runs 3600 and works just fine. The mfg of the wheels recommend using a max speed of 3600 rpm, so that speed is safe for the paper wheels. Some people prefer a slower running speed, but it is not mandatory.

Good luck in whatever you decide to use.

Blessings,

Omar
 
GerryM said:
Huge thread! My questions:

  1. I'm in Australia where we cannot get variable speed or slow speed bench grinders (AFAIK). What then? We use 240V, not 110V, so importing a slow grinder is not an option unless I want to get involved in getting a transformer (voltage converter) as well
  2. I've recently bought a Work Sharp + numerous belts for it. It can quickly sharpen knives to shaving condition .... why would I want to get paper wheels instead? Who has moved from the Work Sharp to paper wheels, and why?
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I also have the original WS 240v but found it removes too much metal, too fast. As you say, the results are great, but over time, the blade was being ground down faster than I wanted. Now I only use it for garden tools. I'm intending to try the Ken Onion edition, which has variable speed, as it's now becoming available in 240v.
I use the 10" slotted paper wheel on a 240v slow speed grinder as a kind of strop between sharpening.
 
banksy said:
I also have the original WS 240v but found it removes too much metal, too fast. As you say, the results are great, but over time, the blade was being ground down faster than I wanted. Now I only use it for garden tools.
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Agree. I use it on cheap kitchen knives, tools, and to give an occasional heavy sharpening, almost a reprofiling, to my better knives. Otherwise I use a Sharpmaker. Thinking of buying a 1x30" belt sander (see my thread on this) for sharpening chisels and the blade from a (very useful) Bosch Shredder / Mulcher (see below):

processimage.aspx


This blade needs to be sharpened along the whole 10mm profile, so just touching the edge, as the WS does, is not sufficient. I think I'll have to push it against a platen.

Of course, I could always try some thing cheap and nasty like this

021194bs106-04_med.jpg


I'm intending to try the Ken Onion edition, which has variable speed, as it's now becoming available in 240v.
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It's $250-$300 on fleabay, too expensive ...
 
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OHALLUM said:
How do you run your Work Sharp? It is 120 volt is it not.
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No, they do sell a 240V version here in Australia.

The wheels give a much sharper finish than the Work Sharp.
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Wow. The WS makes blades shaving sharp, but I guess there are people who need knives even sharper! I wonder at what point wanting exquisite sharpness becomes more of a obsession than a real-world requirement?

If the Work Sharp gives you a blade as sharp as you need, then the wheels may not be needed.
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I have a very fine Spyderco ceramic stone and leather strops for my straight razor, but that's the only time I need "super sharp".

For my knives, once I get them sharp, I often only have to run them on the slotted wheel to get them back to razor sharp.
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Ok, fair enough, but unless one is processing a lot of knives, for instance as a profession, there are other, much cheaper (albeit slower) ways of doing this, right? I mean, without paying for a special low speed or variable speed grinder and then the whole paper wheel kit, and then having to learn all the tricks and tips Richard and you have kindly imparted in this thread (enough to fill a small book at this stage) :)
 
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I've been using the paper wheels for 2 years now, and love them. I was wondering what other people do for a quick touch-up. When I try running the slotted wheel only (my justification - kinda like stropping), I don't see much change. It usually takes 3-4 passes on the grit per side, then the slotted wheels. It just seems like I am taking away excess steel this way?

Anyone strop for maintenance, separate from the slotted wheel?
 
I use the slotted wheel as a strop for my knives, and only use my strop loaded with a gold compound to keep my carving knives sharp as I am using them. I find the slotted wheel used with the white compound applied each time I use it, adequate to keep my knives sharp enough for normal use. I keep my kitchen knives sharp, and only have to grind them about once every 3 months or so. I also use a "steel" on them before each use if I am cutting up something that is large ( chicken, large cuts of meat, or lots of vegetables, etc. ) On my pocket knives, I usually "tune" them up on the slotted wheel at least once a week or after some hard cutting chores. Don't really use them much any more other than opening mail, and cutting open some cardboard boxes, and the occasional use for cutting food in a restaurant or some fruit for a snack.

I think the key for the slotted wheel is to apply the compound before each use, at least that has been the case for me.

I also sharpen knives as a small sideline business, and for friends and family ( for free of course ), so I sharpen a lot of different types of knives and different steels. It is mostly a hobby since I have retired six years ago.

Blessings,

Omar
 
foofie said:
I've been using the paper wheels for 2 years now, and love them. I was wondering what other people do for a quick touch-up. When I try running the slotted wheel only (my justification - kinda like stropping), I don't see much change. It usually takes 3-4 passes on the grit per side, then the slotted wheels. It just seems like I am taking away excess steel this way?

Anyone strop for maintenance, separate from the slotted wheel?
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It occurs to me that if you're having to use the gritted wheel that much each time, you're probably not maintaining a consistent angle. You should be able to use just the polishing wheel for touch ups, and after the initial sharpening, if the polish wheel doesn't maintain it, one pass on the grit wheel should bring it back. Might try concentrating on where you place the knife on the wheel, and also the blade angle more, and see if that helps. Doesn't take much deviation at all to "kill" the edge.
 
Since i started working with Paper Wheels back in 2009 i've experimented with quite a few regritting methods, and the recipe below is what has been working best & longest for me:

1 - First remove all traces of the old wax layer.
For this i use a steel wire brush on the spinning Wheel until most is gone, then i shut the machine down and remove the last remnants with an old rag & brake cleaner.

2 - Then remove all traces of grit & glue until you get to the bare cardboard surface.
For this i use an old coarse silicon carbide stone first and a semi-coarse diamond stone second, but coarse sandpaper on a piece of wood also works well.

3 - Take a good quality water resistant wood glue and coat the bare cardboard surface evenly.
I just use a clean finger while turning the Wheel with my other hand.
Let dry at least overnight.

4 - The next day apply a new and just a little thicker layer of the same glue, and immediately after coat the surface with the grit.
For this i put a thick layer of grit in a small rectangle box or a deep plastic lid from a jar and gently push the surface of the wheel in it, evenly and all the way around.
Put the wheel back on the machine and let dry at least overnight.

5 - The next day run the machine with the wheel for just a few seconds so any loose grit particles fly off.
I also hold my diamond stone shortly to the sides of the Wheel to remove grit particles that stick out there.
Stop the wheel and coat the gritted surface with a very thin & even layer of the same wood glue, so thin you can still feel the grit under your fingertips when you're done.
Let it dry at least overnight.

6 - The next day run the machine and hold an old junk knife a few seconds to the wheel (still without the wax), as this will lay bare the highest points of the grit particles.
Now you can put some wax on the surface (don't overdo it) and sharpen away.

As you can see the process takes some time, but to me it's worth it.
The triple layer of glue makes for a much stronger bond of the SiC grit to the cardboard surface compared to just one layer of glue, and each grit particle is also held better in the glue since it's almost completely encapsulated by it, while the glue itself will wear away easily during sharpening.
This method provides me with a grit Wheel that works perfectly and also lasts longer between regrittings.
 
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Very interesting method kwackster! It sounds involved, but thinking it over, it makes sense. The weak point in the wheels is the grit wheel in my opinion. I keep an extra grit wheel on hand to use when I am re working a wheel. No more than I use my wheels any more, they last a long time between reworking. The biggest problem I have is getting a smooth wheel after re-gritting. It always has some high spots on it that causes the blades to "bounce". I sand and grind after re-gritting to try to get it as smooth as possible before adding the wax. It always has some un even spots even after all that.

I lay down a layer of grit on a newspaper and roll the wheel with the wet glue on it to cover it as evenly as I can, then let it dry overnight. I then spin it like you to remove any loose grit, and then grind/sand to get it as even as I can. I think I will try your method with my existing wheel, and if it turns out
successfully, then I will do my spare wheel also. Thanks for the idea, it sounds like a winner on paper, and in theory.

Blessings,

Omar
 
Good morning, Richard.
I just purchased Swamp Rat Rodent 4 ( online) and found out that it cannot even cut a paper.
I read your post on Bladeforum and am wondering if you could put nice edge on it.
I am going to use it as a cooking and camping knife, occasionally around the house and my backyard.
Please let me know.
Thank you and have a wonderful day, Andy.

Sent from my iPad
 
vandros said:
Good morning, Richard.
I just purchased Swamp Rat Rodent 4 ( online) and found out that it cannot even cut a paper.
I read your post on Bladeforum and am wondering if you could put nice edge on it.
I am going to use it as a cooking and camping knife, occasionally around the house and my backyard.
Please let me know.
Thank you and have a wonderful day, Andy.

Sent from my iPad
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I could be wrong, but I don't think he's sharpening right now.
 
Thank you for responding, man.
I guess you are right. He is not responding to personal email and here at forum.
Sad.... I need to resharpen Scrap Yard Rodent.
 
vandros said:
Thank you for responding, man.
I guess you are right. He is not responding to personal email and here at forum.
Sad.... I need to resharpen Scrap Yard Rodent.
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I hope everything is alright, Richard had some health issues a while back and was on the mend... He's a good guy though and knows his stuff. :thumbup:
 
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