paper sharpening wheels - when your time is important to you

Yes, i buy naked Wheels and then charge them with diamond compound.
To secure the diamond compound to the surface of the Wheel i use light oil with tackifier in it.
I bought my current supply of 3M diamond compound from a guy on the Dutch knife forum who works in the electronics industry (polishing silicon wafers), but recently i discovered another dependable (and cheaper) source in the US:

http://www.techdiamondtools.com/

They also have a Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/lapidarypaste

Owner: Yuriy Ma
Address: 10511 Glencoe Drive
Cupertino, California
95014 USA

I exchanged a few e-mails with Yuriy and bought 100 carat (about 20 grams) of 230 grit diamond powder from him, paid with Paypal and received my order in about a week from the US, neatly packaged in a double plastic pouch inside a small bubble envelope.
I'm currently using this diamond powder glued to the surface of a Rubber Wheel for sharpening ceramic knives and various high carbide steels, and i must say with very good results so far.
When my current stock of various diamond compounds runs out i'm also going to order some from Yuriy.
 
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I should have read the paper wheel instructions before posting. Using 60 grit sandpaper on a file can true up the paper wheel surface, as the wheel surface may round over time.

* deleted the original post *
 
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Here's an example of how i use the diamond powder from Yuriy on a Rubber Wheel, in a later stage i also intend to coat one or two Paper Wheels with the diamond powder.
So far i've found the diamond powder to cut faster, cleaner, and also noticeably cooler than silicium carbide.

The knife is made by Ewout vd Gronden (E.A.G. Knives), a Dutch part-time knife maker who spends a lot of thought, time and effort into making about two knives a month.
For steels he likes to use D2 and N690Co which he hardens himself with very good results (i've tested a few of them in the field and provided him with feedback)
After he finishes a knife he sends it to me to give it the final edge.
He also lets me know his wishes regarding edge angle & edge finish, and i go to work.

This is one of his larger field grade knives i did recently, and the picture was taken by the maker before i put on the edge.
Steel is N690Co, blade is 18 cm long, and the handle is canvas Micarta.



These are pics taken by me with it's new edge, in this case a pre-specified and almost exact 35 degrees inclusive.
Bevels were ground with the Rubber Wheel coated with 230 grit diamond powder, after which i only removed the tiny burr with a Paper Wheel coated with 1 micron diamond compound.
This provides for a strong edge that is literally treetopping sharp along it's entire length, and still has a lot of bite.
Some of the pics make it seem like there are different facets in the bevels, but that is just the light playing tricks.
(pics can be clicked 2 x to get a better view of the scratch pattern the 230 grit diamond powder creates)





 
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Hi kwackster, can you be more specific about the oil with tackifier? So you don't glue the diamond powder on the wheel? Thanks.
 
The 230 grit diamond powder is glued to the surface of the Rubber Wheel with the same wood glue i use to attach SiC grit to the surface of a Paper Wheel, but the finer 3M diamond compounds i use cannot be glued as one of the ingredients in them is oil.

After some trial & error i found that when i apply a coat of said diamond compound to the surface of a bare Paper Wheel, cover that with a layer of oil with tackifier, then let it all dry at least overnight (more nights is even better), i end up with a Wheel with which i can sharpen & polish both ceramic knives and various high carbide steels quite well & within a reasonable time frame.
I reapply both the diamond compound & the layer of oil from time to time, but to me that is more than worth it.

Tackifier is an additive in certain types of oil that helps to keep it where you apply it, even at a high speeds like for instance on motor chainsaws.
You can also buy it separately and add it to an oil of your choice to give it this property.
 
A Spyderco Paramilitary 2 in Elmax steel.
The factory edge had some light brown discoloration near the tip on one side, traces of some unknown black stuff that couldn't even be removed with acetone (visible in pic 1 & 3), and it could also barely cut copypaper.

This is how it looked before sharpening:
(pics can be clicked 2 x)



First i removed the apex of the old edge by cutting a few times in a silicon carbide stone, then resharpened it with a Paper Wheel coated with 15 micron diamond compound, followed by removing the tiny burr with a second Paper Wheel coated with 1 micron diamond compound.
This time i also polished the bevels a bit more with the same Wheel, just to see how the Elmax would do.
According to my Tormek angle gauge the new edge measures 30 degrees inclusive, can slice single ply toilet paper and easily whittle the hairs on the back of my hand from heel to tip.









 
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A while ago i reprofiled & sharpened this Ontario Afghan Bush in (probably) 5160 steel for a Dutch forum member, who when he received it tested it quite rigorously to see how the the knife would hold up with it's new edge.
The pictures show the knife with it's new edge measuring 35 degrees inclusive, a 15 micron diamond compound Paper Wheel finish, and a treetopping sharpness.

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This was the mail i got from him when he was done testing:
(translated from Dutch)

Hereby i send you the results of the batonning test: my arm hurts and the knife just laughs at me.

I started with batonning through some standard firewood, which didn't cause any problems.
Then i proceeded to baton right through a hardwood pole with a big burl (?) in it (with a lot of effort from my side)
I then replaced the baton with a hard rubber hammer for a bit more comfort and hitting power, and with this i managed to drive the edge about half an inch crossgrain into another piece of tropical hardwood.
After this i cleaned the knife, and the edge would still pushcut through paper.

I almost forgot to mention that i also put the knife sideways with the point on a wooden block and gave it about 20 hard whacks with the rubber hammer on both sides of the knife.
Then i tested the point strength by stabbing it into hardwood and breaking it free sideways.
I think the knife already has endured more than it will ever have to in real life.

After all this i could still shave the hair on my leg on skin level, and after a bit of stropping it could treetop again.


When the customer is happy then i'm happy, :)
 
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Some time ago i did this rather large Strider fixed blade for a Dutch forum member.
According to my Tormek angle gauge the factory edge measured 50 to 55 degrees inclusive and it wasn't very sharp either.

Grit progression: reprofiled on a standard Paper Wheel with 220 grit SiC, refined it a little with a second Paper Wheel coated with 15 micron diamond compound, and finally removed the tiny burr with a third Paper Wheel coated with 0,25 micron diamond compound.
The new & slightly convex edge measures around 35/36 degrees inclusive, and can both slice single layer toilet paper and treetop the hairs on the back of my hand.

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kwackster said:
Some time ago i did this rather large Strider fixed blade for a Dutch forum member.
According to my Tormek angle gauge the factory edge measured 50 to 55 degrees inclusive and it wasn't very sharp either.

Grit progression: reprofiled on a standard Paper Wheel with 220 grit SiC, refined it a little with a second Paper Wheel coated with 15 micron diamond compound, and finally removed the tiny burr with a third Paper Wheel coated with 0,25 micron diamond compound.
The new & slightly convex edge measures around 35/36 degrees inclusive, and can both slice single layer toilet paper and treetop the hairs on the back of my hand.







Click to expand...

That is one fantastic looking edge!
 
Hey protourist, have you heard from Richard J? I know you kept in touch with him for a while, but have not heard anything about him for a long time. Just curious, miss his posts on here.

Omar
 
OHALLUM said:
Hey protourist, have you heard from Richard J? I know you kept in touch with him for a while, but have not heard anything about him for a long time. Just curious, miss his posts on here.

Omar
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I sure would like to know. He got me started with the Paper Wheels along with sharpening some knives for me. I don't know if the new members know this but, he is a talented knife maker also.
Richard J, PLEASE CALL ME OR JUST COME BACK ON THE FORUM! We miss you.

Rob
 
I'm trying to get him back here. I always pass along all the well wishes but he is going through a rough stretch. Hopefully he will be back soon.
 
protourist said:
I'm trying to get him back here. I always pass along all the well wishes but he is going through a rough stretch. Hopefully he will be back soon.
Click to expand...

For me this is good news. I know that he has had some health issues, but I didn't know if he was even alive.
He is a good Guy, and an asset to this forum. Thank you for the news.

Richard j, if you are reading this, please give me a call or send me an email.

Rob
 
well, after reading about half of this thread, i decided to get some paper wheels. i got a deal off of ebay, someone was selling the grizzly 8" wheel set, still brand new in package. it came with 2 additional grit packs, free shipping, all for $52.

i also bought the HF 1/2 HP 6" buffer to put them on. i will be receiving them mid next week, and will probably try it out next weekend, and will give an update of how things go.

has anyone used CBN emulsion on these wheels? i have some 80, 30, 15, 8, and 4 micron CBN emulsion (water based). i have an idea it would work well if it could somehow adhere to the paper wheel. i bought the CBN for the purpose of applying it to linen belts for my 1x30 belt sander. just spread a few drops on the belt and let dry. i have the belts but haven't had a chance to try them out. maybe sometime this weekend i'll give the belts and CBN a go.

can't wait to try out the wheels!

thanks,
pat
 
I talked to Richard a couple of weeks ago. He was feeling okay, but taking a break from sharpening while continuing to recover from medical issues.
 
So I got the paper wheels and tried them out on my kitchen knives. I'm not satisfied with my results so far...
I completely wore through the grit, based on what I've read I need to re coat and use more wax and less pressure.

I can form a bur no problem, and the paper buffing wheel removes it perfectly. But I'm left with a less than razor sharp edge. It can barely shave but won't push cut paper at all. The edge feels slightly rounded almost as if I used a leather strop for way too long with too much pressure.

What am I doing wrong?
 
f250 said:
So I got the paper wheels and tried them out on my kitchen knives. I'm not satisfied with my results so far...
I completely wore through the grit, based on what I've read I need to re coat and use more wax and less pressure.

I can form a bur no problem, and the paper buffing wheel removes it perfectly. But I'm left with a less than razor sharp edge. It can barely shave but won't push cut paper at all. The edge feels slightly rounded almost as if I used a leather strop for way too long with too much pressure.

What am I doing wrong?
Click to expand...

Too much pressure for sure if you've worn through the grit wheel already... My set of wheels is still on the original grit; I've sharpened hundreds of knives with them including many large kitchen knives...


Maintaining an even edge angle sounds like the culprit too; It is easy to tell if you're off as the finished edge won't be as sharp as it should be.

I've found I still have spots along the edge that look like they've been properly apexed but they aren't; resulting in a flat spot or extreme micro bevel of sorts. The result is the knife will basically not cut and feels dull in those sections. It can be hard to see sometimes because of lighting and usually can be identified by feel more easily.

Here is a pic to help explain what I'm saying; the double bevel is best representative of the issue:
sharpen102.jpg
 
I know for a fact I had multiple bevels going on. So what I'm hearing is I need to practice more consistent bevel grinding for a correct apex, and I need a MUCH lighter touch. Yes?
 
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