PC Dead in Australia?

I actually think it's a good idea. The one set of laws for the land, not the "love it or leave it" speach. That may be true, but's a little harsh. Not that I have ANYTHING against Islam. As a whole, it's a peaceful religion. It's the hardline hate preach that is the problem. That goes for any religion. There is a time when freedom of religion crosses over the line of overall public safety. No one says that you can't be a follower of Islam or a Christian or a Jew or Hindu, you just have to respect the laws of the land. Because your religious beliefs say that you can do one thing doesn't mean you can throw away the laws of the governing body. It's along the same line of the hardline Mormons that want to exercise their religious "right" to multiple wives.
Governments, for the most part, are set up by and for the majority. A lot of people like to pi$$ and moan when they don't get what they want, but that's the way the modern system works. The only way to change it for the entire population is to get organised and gain some political clout. You can't be way out in La La land and expect the rest of the country to go along with stoning punishments, "I divorce you (x3)" laws, multiple wives, underaged marriage, or anything else that hardline religious fanatics come up with. Society as a whole is normal. Not in the "He's normal" or "That's normally what happens" kind of way, but in the normal curve sense. You have a wide bell area to fall in and make your beliefs work and accepted. Once you step out of this bell curve....you're not normal, and society will not understand or accept you. That's part of being human.

Jake
 
France, Holland, a lot of other countries are doing similar stuff. I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand freedom of religion and expression. On the other why don't they move to Iran or why didn't they move to Afghanistan when they were theocracies?? Why? Because they want the benefits of a secular government and economy but they they don't believe it's right and want to change it. How hypocritical.
 
Hollow, I'm dim today; what are your mixed feelings? Lately a lot of your observations, btw, have been very astute.




munk
 
hollowdweller said:
France, Holland, a lot of other countries are doing similar stuff. I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand freedom of religion and expression. On the other why don't they move to Iran or why didn't they move to Afghanistan when they were theocracies?? Why? Because they want the benefits of a secular government and economy but they they don't believe it's right and want to change it. How hypocritical.
Click to expand...

Exactly! You can't have your cake and eat it too. Life is about choices. You can choose to be extreme in your views or not. You can choose to compromise and be tolerant of the country in which you are a guest. And, i guess you can choose to suckle and grow fat of that country's teat until you have had your fill, then wipe the glut from your mouth and cry out how this country is wrong and bad and immoral because as a whole it doesn't see eye to eye with your views. This has nothing to do with Islam. As I've said before, Islam is a peaceful religion much like my own. I hate the fanatic Islamic movement as much as I hate the KKK or Jewish extremists. People doing stupid things and causing greater harm to mankind as a whole while spewing hate and lies through their perverted "word of God" just does not sit well with me.

Jake
 
I got it now- duh.

I for one just wish we could live together. I'd like to see people celebrating their lives and country and religion in the streets- alongside one another.
Most Muslims, despite years of propaganda, and the US's own awkward moves, do not subscribe to radicial death dealing philosophies. That is what we should focus on.


munk
 
Most of the ones I know are ok. But for sure theres some sort of global Jihadist movement that draws members from the fringes of the mainstream.

Religious States are kind of like Communisim. On the surface it sounds like it'd be good for most folks, but in practice the guys at the top suck it all up for themselves. I remember reading "The Autobiography of Malcom X" as a kid and how he became disillusioned that Elijah Mohammed was not practicing the strict morality that he preached. Ended up getting himself killed.
 
I'd like to see the good ol' US of A take a stance like that. But then I'd also like to see Australia go back to the easy gun and knife laws she had in the 1800's and earlier, as well as the US of A too of course. Gun laws, we don't need no stinkin gun laws!!!!:grumpy:
Same as knife laws, we don't need no stinkin knife laws either!!!!:grumpy:

As far as seeing people getting along together...
Hell I'd just like to see things return to like it was in the mid '40s to the mid 50's as far as folks getting along together, along with the advances in human rights of course.
No one should be put down or trodden on because of their color or anything else.:mad:

But then if we went on back a hundred years or so when everyone went around armed then we would have a polite society.
Samuel Colt was indeed the great equalizer of men.:thumbup: :cool: :D
 
i worry guys

to take an "extreme" example (just an example, not saying it is representative or the best), of segregation.

i mean, if 18th century u.s democratically wanted segregation, is that right?

i worry. i worry that some nut job might take what this law is trying to do and twist it.

i think vigilance is required so that a bully majority never happens. maybe i'm being too overly cautious, but being part of a democracy means looking out for a law abiding minority (this statement doesn't include homicidal fanatics or any other such destructive group, i.e Liberals).

:D :D :D
 
I hate having to agree with a Canadian (grin) but Dave is right on this one...majority rule in protecting minority rights.

Any minority...as long as they follow just laws.
 
You also have to consider that Islam mandates itself as the state religion. That means that one must overthrow or overrun secular govts. That is a religious mandate.

And also that their is no forgivness of sins in Islam. In islam once your soul is blackened with misdeeds the only way to heaven is through martyrdom. That's quite an incentive.

Islam is NOT a peaceful religion. What in human experience suggests it is or ever has been? Nothing. No one here can list the first thing. Australia is to be commended. AND whatever politician had the balls to say such a thing is to be voted for.

Andy

PS. Did anyone hear of the three christian schoolgirls beheaded in Indonesia by mulsim terrorists today?
 
Segregation is a bad example. African Americans weren't a real threat. An imagined threat is not the same as todays problem.

Munk, If the muslims were dancing in my street I'd have my family secured, my guns loaded, and my Khuk on my belt.

Andy
 
Dave Hahn said:
to take an "extreme" example (just an example, not saying it is representative or the best), of segregation.

i mean, if 18th century u.s democratically wanted segregation, is that right?
Click to expand...

No, segregation wasn't right and can never be right.
That's why I said what I did about going back to the mid 40's and 50's and then to the 1800's if we could have the human rights we have today.

I hadn't thought about the situation the way you have stated it Dave, definitely something to think about it.
 
Aproy1101,

The Koran is not a violent book. It does not teach murder. I have a copy of it in my bedroom, just to answer dialogues like this one. (and because I was curious.) It is not really accurate to judge the vast majority of Moslems on the actions of what historically is a small group of people fomented in a single generation, any more then it would be accurate to sweep Christians up with a broad hangin' brush that they're bigots and for torture because of the Middle Ages.

Aproy- it's extremes. It always has been. Wahhabi has gone 'mainstream' with the help of a sympathetic zany European/Western culture and Press. And the prodding of more than a few Royal Middle Eastern Families who fed young people a diet of Bad USA to keep their minds off of hunger and want that the Royal families had a lot to do with.

That's my overly simplified view. Let's not turn this into 'Moslem bad' thread.

I want folks to speak freely, but not ugly. (not that I'm saying you have)

munk
 
I had a Muslim offer me a pickle once. It was all he had. We were all of us broke down and living in a hole in San Bernardino Ca. He would faithfully pray at the appointed times each day. He was thin, and I never saw him eat much. One day he invited me over and he showed me what was under his sink and in all the cupboards; large jars full of pickles, and many with olives.

He moved out. Only a couple empty jars left behind. I hoped he went to a place with food.


munk
 
I must agree with you that there are lots of peaceful muslims. I also think the Koran can be used peacefully by level headed people. I too have a very close Muslim friend. However the truth of the matter is that that book contains mandates by Muhammad, a warlord himself, to spread Islam through any means necessary including Jihad (his word). There is also no other way, according to the koran and Muhammad, to overcome a sinful life than martyrdom. My muslim friend agrees that this is in the Koran. The bible isn't wholly peaceful either. These are facts from the Koran and should be allowed into an intellectual conversation about terrorism without being misinterpreted for racism.

Unfortunately there are no active terrorists around the world who aren't muslims. A fringe group yes, but 100% muslim. RECOGNIZE THE THREAT!!!

And also, as of yet, no one has replied with a list of peaceful Mulsim historical events that would proove me wrong.

Munk, you have a son(s). I have a duaghter. If she married a peaceful Muslim from Saudi Arabia and they moved there she would have no civil rights. No rights to her children. No freedom to move about or even leave the country herself. Would this worry you more if you had a daughter? It scares the hell out of me.

I disaprove of racism and don't socialize with racists, but I do acknowledge a threat. Where is the voice of the peaceful Muslim leadership on terrorism? Why don't we hear of these leaders influencing the youth toward a peaceful exsistance? Please send me a list of the peaceful deeds, anyone.

Andy
 
Munk---It is not really accurate to judge the vast majority of Moslems on the actions of what historically is a small group of people fomented in a single generation

Actually if you look at the history this is the first time in history that this "fringe" was a minority at all. Historically the majority held these views. Remember it is the conservative position, not the liberal new trendy position. Take the blinders off. Australia was right. I wish we had the freedom to say things such as their leadership has here in the USA without being scraped into the bigot catagory.

Andy
 
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