PM2 sized Native?

Skar said:
What's all this compression lock hate about ?
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It is not that personal, but I prefer other locks. I still have a few comp. lock knives, and I am keeping maybe two, but I am also selling the rest, and I am not buying new ones. A more detailed answer as to why:

First, the compression lock cut-out creates a hot-spot - it's especially annoying in a hammer grip, while push-cutting somewhat binding materials, even just cardboard, but this will obviously depend on the blade geometry as well. The experience of breaking down a fridge packaging with the Para 3 was painful.

Next, the compression lock is unusable in thick gloves (or at the very least dangerous to use). So not suitable for winter use in colder climates.
Piggybacking on this issue is that operating the compression lock even with naked fingers can result in dropping the knife, which is very dangerous, because when I want to close the blade I must reposition my fingers on the handle from a (lets say) hammer grip to a kind of a pinching grip while depressing the lock tab with my index finger. The whole thing feels a bit flimsy.

In comparison I just use the knuckle of my thumb to depress the back-lock on a Native. No need to change the grip.

Also, the compression lock is not ambidextrous, due to its asymmetric design. I certainly don't want a knife with a compression lock when my dominant right hand is injured.

I also dislike how the tip of the finger choil bounces back from my finger tip depressing the lock tab, resulting in a failed close. This is also dangerous, when I must focus on my work and can't visually check if my blade is closed or not. The Shaman is the most notorious, but it applies to the PM2 and possibly others.

Something that gets overlooked is the strength of the detent. It is quite weak and 'shallow' if you know what I mean. Again, not the safest thing in the world.

Next, IME and of some others, the action and ease of operation of Taichung made compression locks is inferior to Golden ones. Eg, the compression locks on my PM2 and Para 3 are smoother and easier to manipulate than my Sage 5 and Caribbean compression locks, where I really must push my finger deep inside the lock for anything to happen.

In contrast, Back-locks, Axis/Able/CBB locks do the above things right, and Liner locks and Reeve integral locks do some of these things right.

Lastly, I personally feel that a back-lock is stronger than a compression lock.


Other relevant thoughts::

 
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kobold said:
Who would like to see a 3,5" Native? Pros and cons?
Some visual aid i made. The Native and the Chief with the PM2:

uyLFa6BKHp.jpeg


And the mid sized Native (made in Gimp):

B78.jpg


What say you?
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Bumping this beautiful idea back up. I've been carrying my Native 5 (CPM-M4) for the past week, and I'm more convinced by the day that a "Native Shaman" (Shaman length but otherwise Native build like kobold mocked up) would be my perfect dream edc.
 
Officer's Match said:
Bumping this beautiful idea back up. I've been carrying my Native 5 (CPM-M4) for the past week, and I'm more convinced by the day that a "Native Shaman" (Shaman length but otherwise Native build like kobold mocked up) would be my perfect dream edc.
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Yeah! I was thinking bumping it myself. The Lil Chief - or Big Native - must become a reality. It is amazing, with all the thousands of knives out there, this is not done yet.
 
I would definitely like to see a pm2 or slightly smaller native. The shaman is not that in the slightest. way to big, thick and heavy. do what they did with the endela except actually make it a middle size between the chief and native 5
 
Jack3dBrett said:
I would definitely like to see a pm2 or slightly smaller native. The shaman is not that in the slightest. way to big, thick and heavy. do what they did with the endela except actually make it a middle size between the chief and native 5
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I think what kobold mocked up is PERFECT.
 
I think I should do one using the S90V CF Chief to make it even more desirable. :)
 
I emailed BOOMER52 BOOMER52 , some time ago, about this exact thing.
Using a Endela and making Native/Shaman style scales for it.
Love my Native's and my Shaman. I figured it would be a perfect size!

Unfortunately his CNC has been/was down. So it hasn't been a thing, yet..
 
Bump. I also find the Native 5 to be too small and the Native Chief to be too long. The Shaman doesn’t appeal to me either.

I would also like to see the 50-50 choil and the hump behind the spydiehole access recess removed from the design. And for the love of god, contour and chamfer the edges of the brick-like scales.
 
I'm down with all the shapes and sizes of knives Spyderco wants to make with thick linerless G10 or similar material with a backlock. I love the simple way the native line is constructed. It's very easy to clean a mess out of the inside, and that makes me want to use a knife more. The only thing I would change is to offer more chances for smooth scales. I would like to be able to clean off my knife with a disposable wipe or paper towel and disinfectant without the rough texture shredding whatever I'm wiping it with.
 
Bloodloss said:
I'm down with all the shapes and sizes of knives Spyderco wants to make with thick linerless G10 or similar material with a backlock. I love the simple way the native line is constructed. It's very easy to clean a mess out of the inside, and that makes me want to use a knife more. The only thing I would change is to offer more chances for smooth scales. I would like to be able to clean off my knife with a disposable wipe or paper towel and disinfectant without the rough texture shredding whatever I'm wiping it with.
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A toothbrush with a bit of soap will do it most of the time. But I think bidirectional FRN is the best at collecting dirt.
 
I'd buy one. Shaman has a right-handed comp lock so that's a no go for me. I tried and couldn't get used to it as a lefty. Native chief is a little big, native 5 is a little small. S30V or better and I'm sold.
 
kobold said:
It is not that personal, but I prefer other locks. I still have a few comp. lock knives, and I am keeping maybe two, but I am also selling the rest, and I am not buying new ones. A more detailed answer as to why:

First, the compression lock cut-out creates a hot-spot - it's especially annoying in a hammer grip, while push-cutting somewhat binding materials, even just cardboard, but this will obviously depend on the blade geometry as well. The experience of breaking down a fridge packaging with the Para 3 was painful.

Next, the compression lock is unusable in thick gloves (or at the very least dangerous to use). So not suitable for winter use in colder climates.
Piggybacking on this issue is that operating the compression lock even with naked fingers can result in dropping the knife, which is very dangerous, because when I want to close the blade I must reposition my fingers on the handle from a (lets say) hammer grip to a kind of a pinching grip while depressing the lock tab with my index finger. The whole thing feels a bit flimsy.

In comparison I just use the knuckle of my thumb to depress the back-lock on a Native. No need to change the grip.

Also, the compression lock is not ambidextrous, due to its asymmetric design. I certainly don't want a knife with a compression lock when my dominant right hand is injured.

I also dislike how the tip of the finger choil bounces back from my finger tip depressing the lock tab, resulting in a failed close. This is also dangerous, when I must focus on my work and can't visually check if my blade is closed or not. The Shaman is the most notorious, but it applies to the PM2 and possibly others.

Something that gets overlooked is the strength of the detent. It is quite weak and 'shallow' if you know what I mean. Again, not the safest thing in the world.

Next, IME and of some others, the action and ease of operation of Taichung made compression locks is inferior to Golden ones. Eg, the compression locks on my PM2 and Para 3 are smoother and easier to manipulate than my Sage 5 and Caribbean compression locks, where I really must push my finger deep inside the lock for anything to happen.

In contrast, Back-locks, Axis/Able/CBB locks do the above things right, and Liner locks and Reeve integral locks do some of these things right.

Lastly, I personally feel that a back-lock is stronger than a compression lock.


Other relevant thoughts::

Click to expand...
Guy is right
3x 100% raight, with PM2 4x 100%
Great lock but for fidgeters only
I'm out and off
 
No, thanks.

If you've already got the PM2, why make a PM2 Native variant? Where's the market for that????

The Native Chief makes "sense" in the sense that it fills a "niche" that people like -- long pointy blades -- but converting the Native into a PM2 makes no sense to me. It's not like the Endela/Delica line where the "in between" sized Endela made some "sense" to make.

In the case of the Native, the only comparison would be between the Native and Shaman (which is supposed to be a cousin of the Native) but, if the Native and Shaman, made a "baby," I don't think it would look like a PM2.

I like the idea that they're "baby," would be the Native Chief instead and, if you'd like me make a small and medium sized Native Chief in order to expand that line, I'd be all for it but don't mess w/the Native, which has been around longer than a lot of people on this forum.

LOL! ;)
 
There are significant differences between the PM2 and the proposed model - ergonomics that lock in better, back lock (and everything that implies) instead of the IMHO inferior compression lock, the absence of liners, humpless blade (a big plus for many) and so on.
I also think it would not be merely relegated to a niche role, it would be a proper workhorse.
 
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Make a lightweight shaman, with both a back lock and the comp lock, like what they did with the lil native and I am in.
 
For those thinking this would 'mess' with the Native: maybe this model needs a proper name, not merely a modifier like we have with the Lil' Native. I propose Elder. The elders in the tribal hierarchy are positioned between the natives and the chief.
 
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