PM2 vs Shaman: A New Look

Well that is a bit unnecessary and rude.

Are you saying you need proof that a thicker tip will be stronger than a thinner tip?

 

I think I get it. You can't handle that other people stated an opinion (like 2 years ago) in which you disagree and they did not provide you proof. I understand wanting accurate information, I do too. If I missed your point, please do me the kindness and actually state it instead of just saying that we (I) keep missing your point over and over.

Now what I don't understand is if this were so important, why not bring it up back then and constantly until you got a response? Or since this is of the utmost importance and you cannot let it go, why not test it yourself and prove them wrong?

I dont know if you intend to block me when you say you wont respond to me further, but if you do that kind of proves my point.

Speaking of a contrived issue...

 

Send me a PM2 and a Shaman and I proof it to you, I'm not ruining both of mine to proof something to you.

 

I have a PM2 and a Manix 2, I do not have a Shaman and don't plan on getting one right now. The look of the Shaman just doesn't appeal to me enough, It would be nice to handle one in person. That said here's my take on your points.

• I don't know there will be a point where I will find out if the PM2 fails. I've had it for over a year and a half but I only lightly use it. The thin blade and tip make me a little nervous to use it much at all. I still love it and think it's a good knife but I "feel" like I'd mess it up if I used freely.
• I feel a thicker blade and sturdier tip will hold up better to my carelessness lack of choosing the right tool. I would not want to pry an industrial staple out of wood with my PM 2, carve hardwoods where you are twisting the blade, use it as a scraper or prybar. I feel the Manix 2, Benchmade Griptilian or one of the ZTs I have would stand up better to my carelessness and abuse.

 

Why don't you get your hands on both knives and test them? Prove your point literally, and prove the doubters wrong.

 

Which falls under "hard use"

 

For a specific example, the Shaman's beefier handle seems to fill the hand better, and that, in combination with the contoured scales, means the Shaman is more comfortable for extended use. Not that the PM2 is uncomfortable, but I suspect many find the Shaman more so.

 

There is no about that the Paramilitary 1/2 and Para 3 are part of a similarly designed "family" of Spyderco knives, just like the Manix2 and Manix2 XL.

However, based on Spyderco's own description of the Shaman, the design of the Shaman was "inspired" by the Native and any similarity to the Manix is probably just coincidental, unless (of course) the design of the Manix2 was similiarly inspired but Spyderco makes no mention of that in its description of the Manix2.

Fact is, there are a lot of similarities across model lines which may or may not have any significance but the usefulness of each knife can only be judged on its own merits or deficiencies whatever they may be.

 

Hah, interesting thread. Glad to hear you love the PM2 and want to stand up for your buddy.

Given that you're calling me out directly here, I should probably respond. First, I stated in my Shaman review only that: "This is the best harder use folder that's come across my desk. This absolutely bests some of my favorites in the category. For me, I would take this guy [Shaman] over the PM2 for Ergonomics alone. Yeah, you're gaining some weight here, but if you want beefy, you might as well go beefy". That's a claim as to why I prefer it, but not the thing you're saying I'm saying. Unless I'm forgetting a video where I more directly said "The Shaman will survive situations where the PM2 fails", maybe you're mixing me up with somebody else?

The bigger thing here is that you're trying to prove or disprove a very subjective feeling, expressed as such, using scientific methods. If all statements made in product reviews needed to be rigorously testable and falsifiable hypotheses, well, they'd be a very different beast indeed. And frankly, although I don't know about you, when I click a link to a product review, I'm looking for a person's opinion, rather than pretending there's any science about it. And let's be real: For most knife people, this is an emotionally experienced hobby, rather than situation where a marginally lesser tool experiences direct failures we're trying to avoid.

Perhaps there's a future for you in logically evaluated, internally consistent and empirically verifiable reviewing. But that's sure not what I'm doing, and I suspect that you're not going to find scientific answers to matters of marketing or emotion any time soon!

 

Anyone who claims the Shaman is hardier than the PM2 can easily point to the "cases" of the PM2 tip breaking off. It's a thinner blade, so by virtue of physics the Shaman is better for hard use. If you want hard evidence so bad produce it yourself, I'm sure most are content with anecdotes and common sense.

BTW the Shaman is not related to the Manix in any way, no other knife is (well, Manix XL obvi). The Shaman is derived from the Native.

 

OP, no sane mind would carry an ugly ass shaman over a masterace PM2, regardless of which is better at prying.

 

So even in your own opinion, you disprove your op proposition. Good to know.

 

I hate to disappoint, but "this feels good in my hand" is, by definition, specific to my hand. Whether people find my work useful is really up to them, and has little to do with the truth of the universe. Some folks seem to appreciate my work, others don't. For those who watch, maybe it's because my view of the world seems to match up well with theirs. Maybe they find my judgements to mostly mirror their own. Or maybe it's just all for entertainment. That, too, alas, is subjective!

But with the possible exception of folks like Pete at Cedric and Ada who do quantitatively-based steel testing, you're not going to find science in the world of product review. You've gotta either make your peace with that, or, if you prefer, find a different kind of video to occupy your time!

 

You are now painting yourself in a corner that will be difficult to get out of. You want science from YouTube? You want specific examples of things? But, you are unwilling to do said things....

Good luck with that.

 

There is no debate.

 

What is he going to do? Go around and ask random people on the street to grab the knife? Of course it's subjective and personal. I mean let's say you get Michael Jordan reviewing a Smart Car? Do you think he's gonna give glowing reviews? Of course not, he can get two and wear them as roller skates. He's still able to review it. He can objectively say "Oh it's gonna be excellent in the city to park and get gas mileage, but the ergos for me are crap because 50% of my body sticks out the sun roof."
Same with Nick, he has the hand size he's stuck with for better and worse, and even with my big hands I prefer the Shaman over the PM2 in hand, rounded corners feel better than the blocky PM2 scales. Do I dislike my PM2? No. Is the Shaman a better knife (for me at work) ? Yes. They are different knives.