Pocket knife of the 1800's west?

[midnight flyer]

The only thing I know, is that it's hard for me to believe that people back then carried expensive knives. Not on average, at least. For the same reason why, in 100 years from now, I guess no one should think that every motorbiker in early 2000's rode a Ducati or every farmer drove a Hummer.

Fausto, I think you are absolutely right. Like everyone else that lives on South Texas, I live in a hot bed of Old West lore. We have authentic (and not so authentic) dude ranches all around us and we are surrounded by working ranches and farms. The Cowboy culture is hot from all angles from cookouts from a real chuck wagon after a mini cattle drive to the six gun competition shooters.

San Antonio also has the Institute of Texas Cultures, The Texas Ranger Museum, and we are surrounded by other cities that have museums and displays of Old West life and objects. We have a trail ride every year to start the rodeo and the folks on that ride strive hard (like re-enactors) to get every detail right. With that in mind it is easy to see how the cowboy culture is celebrated here in San Antonio and how much detail we are exposed to from the dedicated fans of that way of life.

The knives I have seen from the 1800s range from really extraordinarily fancy to almost homemade looking. These making up a small amount of the knives I have seen. Almost all the knives I have seen on display that are for every day use have been simple affairs, with just one or two blades. All seem to have bone, metal or wood handle scales. No stag, snakewood, ebony, etc. on those. All have had the dickens used out of them.

To the folks that carried those knives they were tools and were no doubt used for things that would make me cringe. But, if that was the only tool you had at the time, I guess that was what you used. No telling what the failure rate was, so I doubt there was a lot invested in knives then; especially with no such an animal as "customer service" being available.

Robert

 

[lambertiana]

Ken beat me to the punch with the picture from the Arabia. That is a great snapshot from the mid-1800's. For a little later, perhaps a few catalog pages would be illustrative. First, a couple from Maher & Grosh, mid-1880s

And a few random pages (out of a number that I have) from the Hibbard Spencer & Bartlett 1886 catalog

Note the prices. Typical wages in the 1870s-1880s for a cowboy would have been in the order of about a dollar a day. Too bad we don't have sales figures by pattern, that would be interesting. Hard working folks back then used their knives up. In the 1920s Remington did a survey and from it deduced that the average half life of a pocketknife was two years. When you realize how many knives were being made, it's mind-boggling. The data I have is from later, but it makes a good point. In 1931, Remington was making 10,000 knives per DAY. In their 1925 catalog, Remington had 927 patterns. When Imperial was making the shell-handled knives like gangbusters, they put out a lot. Their 1940 production was 100,000 per DAY. I don't think that many knives were made and sold in the mid-late 1800s (lower population being the primary reason), but I still think the number would surprise most of us.

 

[SpookStrickland]

I'm glad I found this thread. Good info thanks!

 

[Ballenxj]

This is going to be a COOL thread.

I still think this picture really tells volumes. The steamship Arabia was headed WEST when it sunk in 1856 in the Missouri river.
These knives were among the knives that were headed to general stores. I think like today, there was a large variation of knives carried and used.

I "do" see more than a few Barlow design looking knives in there.
-Bruce

 

[akadave2]

I dont know exactly how old this is...Im thinking 30's, 40's? But I believe its my oldest.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

Ken beat me to the punch with the picture from the Arabia. That is a great snapshot from the mid-1800's. For a little later, perhaps a few catalog pages would be illustrative. First, a couple from Maher & Grosh, mid-1880s

And a few random pages (out of a number that I have) from the Hibbard Spencer & Bartlett 1886 catalog

Note the prices. Typical wages in the 1870s-1880s for a cowboy would have been in the order of about a dollar a day. Too bad we don't have sales figures by pattern, that would be interesting. Hard working folks back then used their knives up. In the 1920s Remington did a survey and from it deduced that the average half life of a pocketknife was two years. When you realize how many knives were being made, it's mind-boggling. The data I have is from later, but it makes a good point. In 1931, Remington was making 10,000 knives per DAY. In their 1925 catalog, Remington had 927 patterns. When Imperial was making the shell-handled knives like gangbusters, they put out a lot. Their 1940 production was 100,000 per DAY. I don't think that many knives were made and sold in the mid-late 1800s (lower population being the primary reason), but I still think the number would surprise most of us.

Awesome post sir.

 

[Jack Black]

Awesome post sir.

Yes, thanks for posting that Lambertiana

Great-looking knife Dave :thumbup:

This is a really interesting thread, great idea Carl :thumbup:

 

[Faiaoga]

The Model 6114 looks to be very interesting, especially with the scissors and corkscrew. Four blades on a knife for $1.50? I had no idea that the equivalent of a Swiss Army Knife was available back in that time and place.
Faiaoga

 

[555]

Ken beat me to the punch with the picture from the Arabia. That is a great snapshot from the mid-1800's. For a little later, perhaps a few catalog pages would be illustrative. First, a couple from Maher & Grosh, mid-1880s


Note the prices. Typical wages in the 1870s-1880s for a cowboy would have been in the order of about a dollar a day. Too bad we don't have sales figures by pattern, that would be interesting. Hard working folks back then used their knives up. In the 1920s Remington did a survey and from it deduced that the average half life of a pocketknife was two years. When you realize how many knives were being made, it's mind-boggling. The data I have is from later, but it makes a good point. In 1931, Remington was making 10,000 knives per DAY. In their 1925 catalog, Remington had 927 patterns. When Imperial was making the shell-handled knives like gangbusters, they put out a lot. Their 1940 production was 100,000 per DAY. I don't think that many knives were made and sold in the mid-late 1800s (lower population being the primary reason), but I still think the number would surprise most of us.

Good Point and a great reminder, what a great value todays production knives really are.

Takes me back to when I worked for a dollar an hour and Case knives looked high end sitting in the Hardware Store display case.

 

[Gevonovich]

I believe this to be the "Indian Hunter" ( don't like the name unless I'm interpreting it wrong but it may just refer to a adept hunter, wish I could read Lamertiana's ref.) on the first catalog page that Lambertiana posted.

Here is another ad

 

[pertinux]

Ken beat me to the punch with the picture from the Arabia. That is a great snapshot from the mid-1800's. For a little later, perhaps a few catalog pages would be illustrative. First, a couple from Maher & Grosh, mid-1880s.

These pages are great. Thanks!

The last two knives on the second page you posted caught my eye, particularly due to the somewhat contentious copy (Methinks Jack didn't put on his glasses to read the last one, heh). Someone had an attitude about these knives!

I've highlighted the knives in question, and transcribed the copy for easier reading. Note that the second knife has Texas Toothpick on its blade, and is described as a "fine whittler."

The Union Knife. No Veto.
This is our 65c knife, but for a while we will sell it at 50 cents, postpaid; 5 for $2.
Blades are as honest as a Union Soldier, and as reliable. Thousands are in use all over the land, and every one ca be used “to swear by.”

No. 59
That large class of idiots who worship everything English would think this knife cheap at $1.50 if it had been imported, but no English knife was ever made where the blades are so uniformly good and so carefully tested. It has three blades, ebony handle, brass ends. The large blade is very strong and wide, and a sweet whittler. Price, $1; 3 for $2.50. The pattern is one of our own. Illus. 56-page list free; also, “How to Use A Razor.”​

~ P.

 

[midnight flyer]

What a great thread!! Not only has it been immensely enjoyable, but I have learned a lot about the knives of yesteryear. Personally, I have never seen any of the really fancy, multibladed, etched knives that are shown for sale on those old ads, and never even knew they were manufactured back then.

You can tell a knife was still a tool to their buying audience. I like the price of one knife being followed by the bulk buy price. Those ads tell a story of their own.

This is the most enjoyable thread I can remember in some time. Thanks to all for posting your pics and the as scans.

Robert

 

[Jack Black]

I believe this to be the "Indian Hunter" ( don't like the name unless I'm interpreting it wrong but it may just refer to a adept hunter, wish I could read Lamertiana's ref.) on the first catalog page that Lambertiana posted.

Here is another ad

I remember admiring that knife before Gevonovich, a really piece of history, and a great pic as always :thumbup:

These pages are great. Thanks!

The last two knives on the second page you posted caught my eye, particularly due to the somewhat contentious copy (Methinks Jack didn't put on his glasses to read the last one, heh). Someone had an attitude about these knives!

I've highlighted the knives in question, and transcribed the copy for easier reading. Note that the second knife has Texas Toothpick on its blade, and is described as a "fine whittler."

The Union Knife. No Veto.
This is our 65c knife, but for a while we will sell it at 50 cents, postpaid; 5 for $2.
Blades are as honest as a Union Soldier, and as reliable. Thousands are in use all over the land, and every one ca be used “to swear by.”

No. 59
That large class of idiots who worship everything English would think this knife cheap at $1.50 if it had been imported, but no English knife was ever made where the blades are so uniformly good and so carefully tested. It has three blades, ebony handle, brass ends. The large blade is very strong and wide, and a sweet whittler. Price, $1; 3 for $2.50. The pattern is one of our own. Illus. 56-page list free; also, “How to Use A Razor.”​

~ P.

You're quite right P, I downloaded them to read later! Thanks a lot for transcribing the text :thumbup: The prose kind of reminds me of a certain contemperary company that specialise in all things 'tactical', though I wouldn't neccesarily dispute the claim made!

Jack

 

[Gevonovich]

Jack, thank you my friend.