Powering a Evenheat kiln? Pigtail 50amp to a 20amp?

Odog27 has the right idea. It will work if nothing goes wrong. If something does go wrong, which is more likely with a pigtail, then not only will the kiln be toast before the breaker pops but there's a good chance the wires will burn up and catch fire with a 50A breaker. That wire is rated for 20A, if the fault is causing the kiln to push 45A the breaker will not trip but make that 20A wire catch fire and burn. I would say change the breaker or run a sub panel and get the proper wiring. Just my two cents. Best of luck and I hope it all works out. Let us know! :)
 
Blue Collar Steel said:
Odog27 has the right idea. It will work if nothing goes wrong. If something does go wrong, which is more likely with a pigtail, then not only will the kiln be toast before the breaker pops but there's a good chance the wires will burn up and catch fire with a 50A breaker. That wire is rated for 20A, if the fault is causing the kiln to push 45A the breaker will not trip but make that 20A wire catch fire and burn. I would say change the breaker or run a sub panel and get the proper wiring. Just my two cents. Best of luck and I hope it all works out. Let us know! :)
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Geez, just when I thought I had everything figured out...

Urghhh... I hate dealing with electricity. The last thing I want is to ruin my brand new kiln or burn down my garage.
 
JG,
Relax, it won't ruin your kiln. Your kiln draws approx. 16 amps. That is all it will use. It would no matter if it was plugged into a circuit that was fused with a 100 amp breaker - it will still only draw 16 amps. The only way for that to increase would be for something to cause a major short in the kiln. That would pop the breaker be it 20 amp or 50 amp.

What the other fellows are saying is that with the kiln is connected to a 50 amp breaker, that is the degree of protection provided. Since the kiln is a resistive device, this isn't an issue. It is either ON or OFF. It draws only the current that the resistance of the coils dictates ... no more, no less. If there was a short, it would draw up to 50 amps and then the breaker would pop.

Think of it this way. You have 25 watt, 60 watt, and 100 watt bulbs all over your house. Most are plugged into a circuit fused by a 20 amp breaker. That would provide 2400 watts of power. This does not worry you at all, does it. It doesn't harm the lamps and it doesn't burn your house down. That is because the lamps are resistive devicesm, and only consume the rated wattage required by the filament size ... just like your kiln.
 
Stacey is right it won't harm your kiln. I am also right it won't protect your kiln. That is the only point I was trying to make. If you are going to be present whenever the kiln is on, it shouldn't be an issue.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Think of it this way. You have 25 watt, 60 watt, and 100 watt bulbs all over your house. Most are plugged into a circuit fused by a 20 amp breaker. That would provide 2400 watts of power. This does not worry you at all, does it. It doesn't harm the lamps and it doesn't burn your house down. That is because the lamps are resistive devicesm, and only consume the rated wattage required by the filament size ... just like your kiln.
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To be fair, this is not apples to apples. Lighting circuits generally cover multiple rooms in a house. In an older home (based on the garage panel) like the OP's there may only be one or two lighting circuits in the whole house. It would probably be a 15 amp circuit. Also the wire running the circuit would be appropriately sized to the circuit.
 
I am an electrician. If I were renting your house and wanted to run a kiln in the garage I would do exactly what you are/planning to do. I would make up the cord and use it.
Obviously, being an electrician, if I owned the home I would rewire to what I needed.
 
Stacy is right in as much a direct short circuit to ground in the oven circuit will pop the 50A breaker. B.C. Steel is also correct in stating that if a failure occurs which results in only a partial short then the circuit could potentially draw something greater than 20A but less than 50A and could therefore become a potential fire hazard for the 20A wiring leading from the 50A outlet to your oven. The chances of this are remote, but its something to be aware of. Eventually you want to wire in a dedicated 20A circuit so that everything is kosher. Go on craigslist and see if you can find an electrician to barter some electrical work for a hand made knife. Heck, I'd do it if I were in your neck of the woods.
 
If you /really/ feel nervous, throw a switch box with a 20 amp fuse in-line with the pigtail so it'll blow the fuse before tripping a breaker. If your evenheat has the ditigal controller, it's already got a fuse built in to protect the kiln, you'll see the plastic screw cap for the fuse on the back of the rampmaster controller box.
 
While the plug and cord on the kiln is perhaps rated at 30 amps max, the pig tail wire is rated for 50. The possibility of a semi-short to draw more than 20 amps and less than 50 amps is about the same as lightening hitting the shop. In my many years of electricity and electronics I have never heard or read of a high current leak. Minute currents are common, but not ones of that magnitude. In any scenario I can imagine, the coils would burn out and open the circuit long before the cord would catch fire.

I do agree that the pigtail should be used only when the shop is occupied, and that it should be un-plugged when the oven is not in use.

Od0g27, while I understand your comment, my example was to point out to JG that many resistive devices are connected to breaker circuits providing many times the individual component rating. The device is not endangered at all.

To give another example of an equivalent pigtail that is commonly used:
In construction, a long pigtail is often made with a 10 gauge cord and a quad box on one end. The other end is often wired into the temporary power panel/pole on a 100 amp breaker. You plug your 10 amp circular saw into the pig-tail with no worry. You have far more chance of cutting your fingers off than a fire or damaged saw. I am sure Odog27 has seen many of these.
 
Every time someone gets electrocuted it is the result of a 'high current leak'. Can it happen in this case...remote, as I'd stated. Yet there are codes for a reason, whether the possibility of danger is remote or not.
 
Trusting those old breakers to trip is big gamble.
Most of the above advice is some sort of short cut, violation of NEC.
Electricity poses a shock and fire hazard.
Do it right ,sleep at night.

Mark Behnke IBEW LU #595 retired.
 
Quote "Trusting those old breakers to trip is big gamble." Yeap looking at the picture of your panel don't worry I doubt that DP breaker would trip even on a 100 amp load, atleast not till the VFD leaves! In all seriousness Stacy is right. But If I was you I'd go to Lowes buy a 3 wire 50amp range cord, a $20 GE sub panel wire the range pig tail in as feed in, install a 20 DP breaker and install a short lead out to feed the 20 amp recp you have. All is golden. And sleep good.
 
LCoop said:
Quote "Trusting those old breakers to trip is big gamble." Yeap looking at the picture of your panel don't worry I doubt that DP breaker would trip even on a 100 amp load, atleast not till the VFD leaves! In all seriousness Stacy is right. But If I was you I'd go to Lowes buy a 3 wire 50amp range cord, a $20 GE sub panel wire the range pig tail in as feed in, install a 20 DP breaker and install a short lead out to feed the 20 amp recp you have. All is golden. And sleep good.
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Sorry, I'm not really following with a lot of the electrician lingo. I know what a pigtail is now, and I made one for my welder a while back(and it works). I've wired up a bunch of regular 110v household outlets. That's about the extent of my knowledge. Lcoop, by chance you could link me to the exact items at lowes? I'm confident in my ability to get them and put them together. The breaker box is old and I don't think it would be a bad idea to put some safe guard in place for worst case scenario. I have horrible luck and, even if there's a remote chance of something going wrong, it usually will for me.

So yeah LCoop, if it's not too much trouble, you think you could post up links to the exact items you're talking about? I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!


Again, thanks everyone for the help. I'm starting to understand things a little better now. Being that I'm so ignorant with electrical matters it makes it easy to be a worrier. Forgive me if I'm making a bigger deal out of things than I should be.
 
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Man I'm up at 4am getting ready to walk out the door for a two day kayak float fishing trip through some of the most remote wildest place in WV. Wish I could help, will if you don't have it figured out by the time I get back. Take pics of what you have and any Lowes electrical dept dude "should" be able to help you, better if you have a electrical supply shop close though. They sell 50 amp 3 Wire pigtails just like you need complete with a male end and 4 or 5 feet of wire molded on. Wire that into the cheapest 6 or 12 circuit sub panel box they have in stock as LINE IN! A short piece of wire coming out sub panel fed from a DB 20 amp breaker that fits your sub panel to a recp that fits your cord end. 50 amp ready made pig tail should come with a box connector. Only thing you would need is another small 1/2" romex box connector to bring your wire out to feed 20 amp recp. Hope this makes sense, good luck.
 
JG, he is talking about option #3 in my first post. Send me an email and I can give you exactly what to get at the store. What you have now is all going to get used, so you just need to add a breaker box in the pigtail if you want lower value fusing

What he is saying is to take one of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Square-D-D2...722540?hash=item4d43b9a86c:g:9ugAAOSwYHxWN3~n

and place it in the pig tail cord near the dryer plug end. This will provide 30 amp fusing and a master ON/OFF switch for the socket on the end of the pig tail that you plug the oven into.
 
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LCoop said:
Man I'm up at 4am getting ready to walk out the door for a two day kayak float fishing trip through some of the most remote wildest place in WV. Wish I could help, will if you don't have it figured out by the time I get back. Take pics of what you have and any Lowes electrical dept dude "should" be able to help you, better if you have a electrical supply shop close though. They sell 50 amp 3 Wire pigtails just like you need complete with a male end and 4 or 5 feet of wire molded on. Wire that into the cheapest 6 or 12 circuit sub panel box they have in stock as LINE IN! A short piece of wire coming out sub panel fed from a DB 20 amp breaker that fits your sub panel to a recp that fits your cord end. 50 amp ready made pig tail should come with a box connector. Only thing you would need is another small 1/2" romex box connector to bring your wire out to feed 20 amp recp. Hope this makes sense, good luck.
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Now that's what I'm talking about! I wish I was going with you instead of sorting out electrical stuff.

I'm starting to feel real needy with this whole electrical stuff, and that is not who I am. I'm a guy with pretty good problem solving skills and have no problem implementing them in 9 out of 10 situations. I have no problem at all with learning through failure, I'm real good at it in fact. For some reason, the failing I've done with electricity has left an indelible mark on my brain lol.

Anyway, thanks for the help LCoop, enjoy your trip!
 
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