Question regarding the Shanghai Worrier dagger

noviomagus said:
Yes, that is very disappointing.

It shows that someone having a big/famous name might mean much for a large group of people.
Many people might like what Schanz makes. Think high of it.
For you it turned out otherwise.
I found the Schanz dagger not much of a nice dagger that fits well in the hand.
The handle was also too short lengthwise.
So, blocky handle, sharp edged guard, short handle.


Did you have a high regard of him that you ordered a Bowie from him,...did you just go by his reputation.
Did you see work made by him that you liked a lot.
Click to expand...

Ah , you are from Netherlands? So let's write in German ☺
What you are saying about the Schanz dagger is the same I have had criticized on my bowie, besides other factors.
I ordered it, because I have heard much about his knowledge and also that he is the best German knife maker etc. and that
he has used a special new steel, only produced for him.
Ok, if I would have had the choice at that time, I believe I had changed the bowie against the Shanghai Warrior immediately.
 
noviomagus said:
Yes, that is very disappointing.

It shows that someone having a big/famous name might mean much for a large group of people.
Many people might like what Schanz makes. Think high of it.
For you it turned out otherwise.
I found the Schanz dagger not much of a nice dagger that fits well in the hand.
The handle was also too short lengthwise.
So, blocky handle, sharp edged guard, short handle.


Did you have a high regard of him that you ordered a Bowie from him,...did you just go by his reputation.
Did you see work made by him that you liked a lot.
Click to expand...

Ah , you are from Netherlands? So let's write in German ☺
What you are saying about the Schanz dagger is the same I have had criticized on my bowie besides other factors.
I ordered it, because I have heard much about his knowledge and also that he is the best German knife maker etc. and that
he has used a special new steel, only produced for him.
Ok, if I would have had the choice at that time, I believe I had changed the bowie against the Shanghai Warrior immediately.
 
Mein Deutsch ist nicht so gut.
Ich hatte eine friendin in Bielefeld. Für zechs monaten. Nicht so lange :p.
Ihr haus war einige strassen entfernt von fussball club DSC Arminia Bielefeld .

I think we better stick to English/American, for most people can read this language and this is an American forum :).
And my German is a little bit of Mickey Mouse German :)-O.

Special steel.
Yes that makes the knife enthousiast always eager to buy.

And you always pay much more for it than a production knife.

A nice made Bowie is a beauty to have I think.
And the history behind it is also interesting.
I have seen those 19th century pics where Americans had these huge Bowies with them.
Rough times..
 
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Dein Deutsch ist doch super! Natürlich schreiben wir in Englisch weiter, war ja nur ein Witz.
I think to switch to these less expensive CS Knives for a while is a good idea. What I'm still looking for is a simple bowie, such a type as the Shanghai Warrior as dagger. Simple, effective and of good quality.
 
Danke schön.
:)
Ja ein bisschen spass muss sein .
Ich bin aber auch halb Italienisch,nicht nur Niederländisch.
Ein mischung..Aber Italiänisch spreche ich nicht.
Nie gelernt.
Mein vater sprach nur Niederländisch mit mir und meine brüder.

Yeah I know what you mean.
You also want those scales , like on the Warrior, but on a Bowie?
Instead of the injected molded polyproyplene.
And the very well done fit and finish.
Excellent quality control.

The Warrior is of excellent quality.
Especially for the price.

Are Bowies your favourite blade shape?
 
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I would say yes, Bowies has been my favourites for the whole life. I like the design very much, and for me it means the best knife combination for stabbing, chopping, cutting - means hunting and survival tasks. But leaf like blades are also not bad to fulfil this job, maybe they are a little bit better stabbers.
 
The Bowie design is a versatile knife for sure.
And stabbing they can.That CS Bowie machete is a very good stabber.I did test that.
It goes through materials like through butter.
Most clip points stab very well.

I like the leaf shaped blade just a tiny more.
It has a certain beauty over it for me.
And the balance when holding it is awesome.

Something else.
Today I got a Ka-bar John Ek44 delivered that I ordered(120 euro).
What a knife !
Talking about stabbers, and balance.
The handle is also very ergonomic.
Measurements:
circumference/girth of the handle: 8.3 cm and 7.5 cm at the concave parts.
Thickness of the handle 2.5 cm and 2.2 cm.
If you like the more slender handle, then this is what you will,well maybe, find an excellent grip.
It fits the hand a bit like the Shanghai knives, but without the ring, so more suited for a saber grip,which is with a thicker grip knife not a useful thing to do.
But also excellent for a hammer grip.
The concave parts on the handle makes it feel very ergonomic.
They, Ka-bar, also have the EK43 and EK45, the 45 has the clip point like the classic USMC Ka-bar.
Maybe that's something you will like.
:)

Though the John EK45 isn't as big as CS the Bowie machete.
The blade is near 7 inch.
6.8 inch if I'm correct.
 
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Yes, your ka-bar dagger seems to be a really good knife.
When I have bought the Bowie machete last week, I also bought the UC Honshu dagger with a 19 cm blade. The sheath isn't of good quality, seems to be made out of cardboard and rubber. The dagger looks great, is well balanced and feels perfect in hand. It's a clone of the Taipan. Steel is only 440 A and the edges are not really sharp. I have read that it should have a full tang, but I don't know. And if so, what's the shape of the tang. I hope, it is of not too bad quality, because I have paid 80 € , in US around 40 $. But have a look at it, it's beautiful.
 
Yes, I know that United Cutlery knife.
I have had the tanto version in my hands.
Felt good.
The handle is made out of a kraton like material.
Bit soft maybe.
Overal not a bad knife I think.
Yes 4440A.
Not that brittle I would think, but I'm not a metalurgist.
It is a stainless steel, and most reject that in a large blade.
Others say 440A is pretty tough.

Yeah the price is here in Europe always quite a lot higher.
That sucks quite a bit.

I had the CS Cutlass machete delivered this week.
I still got it here, but already packaged, to send it to a guy I sold quite a few blades in the past.
The Cutlass has a little more slender handle than the Bowie machete.
But the balance I don't like at all, it is totally top/blade/front heavy.
Not quick in hand nor for fast maneuverability ,not agile.
I like the Smatchet ten times better.
Even though the handle is a bit bigger.
So, the handle being thicker/bigger is not the biggest problem.
:p
 
I suppose you like this CS Smatchet machete very much. I'm going to order it as well, although this knife again is three times as expensive here. But I cannot find a machete which is comparable to this tool. The only doubt I have had was the capability of stabbing, because of the low blade thickness.
By the way, my bowie machete has a gap of ca. 2 mm between the beginning of blade (where the tang starts) and the beginning of the molded handle. Pictures in the Internet don't show that, here it seems as if the handle and the blade has contact. The Bowie machets you own do have this gap as well?
Regarding the use of stainless steel in large knives I know the strong doubts, but I have used and still use a lot of knives with this kind of steel without any problems. And to carry stainless steel knives in the wilderness without the necessity of thinking about rust problems is also a factor worth to bear in mind.
 
Yes I like the Smatchet.

It really feels like a Spartan or Roman short sword.
Wide blade..
Sharp point.
The point is not delicate, it will not bend easy.
I did some testing on wood, and it stood up fine.Yes, even for those 2.8 or 3 mm thickness.
Then again, the Mora Heavy Duty is 3.2mm thick and is considered thick and strong, that is ofcourse due its length thickness ratio.
But the Smatchet will show up to be tough as well. Also due to the wide blade.
That is a lot of metal to bend.
It stabs easier due to being 'only' 3 mm thick.
And it is very agile .
Compared to all the other machetes I have had I like this one best.
Well, maybe it is more of a short sword.

What's the price of the CS Smatchet where you want to buy it in Germany?
I bought them for 40 euros each..

Yes the gap I have also between the beginning of the handle and the blade. On all of them.
Nothing to worry about.
The tang is all the way through, and it is wide.
Google 'Cold Steel Bowie machete tang', and look at the pics.
You'll see.
No weakness there.
And no 90 degree angles at the tang either.
It will not break.
 
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Yes, the tang of the bowie looks goods, maybe I would trust it more than the Natchez tang.
Here we also pay around 40 € for the smatchet when buying it online. But today I have ordered it in a real shop, it's a really famous one. It's the shop of the Böker Company in Solingen, a city next to the city I am living. I have to pay 53 €. But it's always worth to visit this shop.
 
Yeah, I would trust the tang of the CS Bowie machete also more than the CS Natchez bowie's tang.
Definitely.

I know what you mean with buying it in a real store.
I bought one Smatchet for 45 euros that way(dumpstore 'Wings' in Den Haag).
That shop is a small but good one, with helpful and very friendly people.
Plus, you can check the quality before buying.
Things to watch for in the Smatchet :

Take a look at the guard,blade side,handle side, if there are no defects, like tears in the polypropylene.
I have send a couple back in the past due to that(one ,the metal of the guard was visible).
The latest Smatchets seem to be of better quality.
Maybe there is another South African guy doing that job better?
And also, watch for the blade to be straight.
So take a look on the spine as well.
Don't think you can bend that back easily due to the 3mm thickness.
With the Smatchet it doesn't work that way, the Cutlass machete yes, not the Smatchet.
But,yeah, the Smatchet is my favourite.
A Gladiator would have his way with one, for sure.
Well... it was not a good thing , those arena games. Unnecessary cruelty.


By the way.
I find the Shadow Shanghai a better dagger than the Ka-bar EK44 I have recently.
Wider blade , sharper edge, feels better in hand. Better balance,more comfortable.
It takes a few days for me to really sink in these things..
 
Hey, very nice to give me this advice. Delivery time is two weeks minimum. When I will pick it up, I pay attention to these facts to avoid disappointment. Can hardly await holding it in hands. I will let you know in which condition it will be.
Regarding Cold Steel's Shanghais I suppose after the Smatchet the Warrior is the next purchase.
Damned - these knives seem to get a never ending story, even though I had decided to interrupt this obsession for - don't know, maybe three weeks 😂
 
Haha, I like your reasoning.
Sounds like me.
I have tried to 'quit' this knife obsession a few times (thinking , aahh what use has it got)..
But it is in the blood I guess. In the DNA, genes.
Nothing to do about it, just accept it.

My first knife I got when being 5 years old.
At the kindergarten I was running around with a toy-sword, playing Zorro with my black mask and cape.
Yeah, I had to defend the innocent :-O.

I like to hear your experience , how you feel about the CS Smatchet.
Curious how you like the handle , weight, balance etc.

The Shanghai Shadow and Warrior are knives I also like a lot.
Those wide blades, they really got something about them.
Wide but also sharp.Unlike many daggers, having pretty dull/steep edges.

You will like the Warrior a lot too I think.
It is a beauty.
 
I got my first knife at the age of 8 years. Since then I don´t feel complete without one. Even today I would never go into the woods without a good knife, preferably a fixed. Since I have bought the CS voyager with a 5 1/2 inch blade two years ago, I sometimes except this as well - not in the wilderness, but in ordinary forest.
Of course, I will inform you after having received the smatchet.
Several years ago I owned the Condor combat machete, which has a little stronger blade and is an interesting knife as well; it´s similar too a short sword, but for me the handle isn´t so comfortable. It is too short, too bulky and the material is too soft. All around it´s not bad, but when looking at the CS smatchet machete, even if only on pictures, with the smatchet I immediately have a much better feeling.

By the way: After getting my first knife I had bought one after another, because as a child I often lost them, especially when trowing them. At that time we spent as much time as possible in the forest - no internet, no school which takes a whole day etc. When I was around 12 years old, my father built knives for me, most of them made out of Swedish saw blade steel, all models which came in mind. For the next years I ran through the forest with bowies and sword like monsters with 12 to 16 inch blades. When I was 20 I gave a first order to a German knife maker, a bowie with a 15 inch blade, I remember. Some other knives followed, an when I was around 22 I made my first bowie by myself. It was similar too the CS Trailmaster, but with a 5 mm thick blade. Next 10 years I made some more knives, only bowies, which were my favourites. During that time I also bought many knives from different companies. From 1986 onwards, when I started my survival training, I bought around 150 knives from one special knife maker and a lot more from other ones.
When the place at my home got too narrow, I decided to sell most of the knives, leaving only these knives, I absolutely were in need of - around 20. Also I swore not to buy one more without having another sold. And now, around two years ago? Okay, you said it is in the blood, and I believe you and can do nothing against it. ;)
 
You are at an early age into knives as well.
I read this more often. People being 'hooked' from an early age.
You can have 5.5 inch bladed folders in Germany?
Here in the Netherlands the max. is the CS Spartan with its 4.5 inch blade.
A total of 28 cm is allowed.When opened. No fixed blades to carry around though.
Laws designed by people...how do they come up with these ways of reasoning.
A Stanley knife can also be very deadly, but they seem to want to draw a line somewhere.
I have to say that a 4 inch blade Voyager is more than large enough for me.
Those are pretty large folders to me.
At my work I carry a 3 inch Byrd Meadowland.
Works perfectly fine for everything I need it to.
I have used smaller knives doing fine as well.
Like the Fällkniven U2.

The Condor Combat machete I have had as well.Had..
Same experience as you , especially the bulkiness of the handle and the too soft rubberized grip.
I can tell you, the CS Smatchet is much better overall.
You’ll like it much better than the Condor Combat machete.
If the handle of the Combat machete had been better(not made for Andre The Giant type of hands), with a polypropylene handle, then it could have been an excellent piece.
Cause the blade design is very interesting.


Throwing knives I have done also quite a bit.
Especially folders into trees.
Some of them breaking in the middle of the blade when going diagonal into the tree.
Those were funny moments happening with cheap knives.
In general those cheapo folders were pretty tough I have to say.

Interesting that you and your father were/are into making knives.

Why’s the Bowie style your favourite?
What I would think is, that it has chopping/slashing capabilities, but also piercing.
The Condor Eco Parang and the Condor Bushcraft Parang look like interesting choppers to me.
But they have no piercing tips.
How do you look at these machetes?
The CS Jungle machete has a wide tip , good for chopping(weight forward) but also a good penetrating tip.

I understand your situation on the knife collection and wanting to keep it down to 20 total.
Maybe 50 total as a max is also good?:D
You like those things a lot anyway.
‘It is what it is’, as the Americans tend to say about some realities that aren’t going to be changed.

I never was a fan of the Trail Master handle style with the Kraton.
Like the SRK as well, read too many cases about the handle getting loose around the tang.That's what the soft rubber does.
I favor the molded onto the tang polypropylene material.
Trustable material.

But yeah, let me know how you experience the CS Smatchet
Very interesting, given the fact you seem to have similar ideas and experiences on knife handles as me.
Measering my hand from the wrist to the tip of my middle finger I come up to 20 cm, just shy of 8 inch.
That doesn't mean that we all experience knife handles the same when having same hand sizes(I like to make an analogue to women... but I don't :p).
I have read about guys having medium to small hands but liking the larger handles very much.
Many roads lead to Rome it seems.
 
In general each size of a folder is allowed, as long as it isn´t intended to open it with one hand and only has one side sharpened. So you can use legally a folder with a blade one foot long, but not a fixed with a blade more than 12 cm. Pure nonsnse! Machetes are also allowed, as these are tools, not weapons, but only with one edge. Tomahawks are also legal.
The condor combat machete would be much better for me when having a longer handle, thinner and harder, as for me it is very important that I can use the second hand to support, if necessary, and that´s also the case with big knives; not the complete second hand, but let´s say half of the hand.
Yes, as children and teenager we practised throwing knives and hatchet nearly every day. Over the years with this lot of practise I was able to hit the most targets up to a distance of around 12 yards, with knives, without measuring distances. We were using several different styles of throwing, and with the hatchet I had been even better.
My father was not a knifemaker but technically gifted. He also made spearheads out of metall and arrow heads for me.
For many years my favourite bowie knife had a blade of 10 1/2 to 12 inches and handles of nice looking good wood, like Bubinga, desert ironwood, cocobolo etc.
Later I reduced the length to a blade of 9 1/4 to 9 1/2 inches. Yes, I think bowies are the best compromise for stabbing, slashing, cutting - means for defending, hunting and survival tasks. Nevertheless I have the feeling that leaf like blades and daggers are the better stabbers. So since around 15 years till today most of my knives are a hybrid of a smatchet and a dagger, sharpened ca. half of the back. The last two knives I ordered from a knifemaker were really expensive and of different style, one looks like a big chef´s knife with a blade of 27,5 cm long and 6,3 mm thick, with a very nice sambar staghorn handle and no guard. The other one has a 12 inch blade, bowie like, desert ironwood handle and guard and pommel out of special bronze one uses to build bells. The steel here is Ultrafort, which also is very expensive and not every knifemaker is able to use this stuff. But for these knives I have had one of the very best.
I´ll send you a link next days, you can see it in the German Messerforum.
Having a first look at the parangs I would say, they are not for me. I prefer machetes and big knives, which you as well can use for stabbing. But - maybe if I would use one, I change my mind; who knows. The chopping power, of course, must be enormous. The CS jungle machete looks better, and I have one similar to this, out of D2; very handy and effective.
The material of the TM handles I also do not like, but the design of the blade. Thickness of 8 mm isn´t necessary for me.
Measering my hands I have less than 20 cm, maybe 18,5 cm, but don´t know, if are measure correct. My hands are not too large, but nevertheless I hate too short handles.
 
Regarding bowies in general I often had sharpened the false edge, because of better penetration. But if it is really necessary, I am not sure. So one of the bowies I like most is the Böker Arbolito El Gigante, a beautiful knife with a blade length of 23,6 cm.
The weight of mine is 500 Gramm, but it is a special edition I have bought 2 years ago. It has a staghorn handle and is made out of T6MOV. Böker build them out of N695, which should be a little bit better. My bowie I used for throwing into a tree, for chopping, cutting and batoning, for more than half an hour. After that I only had to strike it several times over a leather belt, and again it was razor sharp. It feels very good in hands, comfortable, and it is a very fast and powerful knife.I like it - medium sized and not too heavy. I like this blade length as well on other styles of knives.
 
Yes , those German laws are makes as much sense as the Dutch ones.
Machetes are way more dangerous than the standard dagger like a Fairbairn-Sykes or other.
Those machetes chop of hands arms, necks.. with ease if sharpened well.
Being tools is why they feel they shouldn't or can't forbid them.
A dagger is a letter opener compared to a large machete.
In the end it is the man behind the knife/blade/tool who makes the difference in a social gone bad situation.
Someone with a short stick should be able to overpower many other blade weapons if he is very skillful and fast on his feet.

A longer handle is much better than a handle on the short side.
That is what I noticed with the Schanz dagger and the ESEE 3 and 4.
Those handles were too short and therefor uncomfortable in use.
Beside them also not being rounded as well. The 3 and 4 too flat, the Schanz feels like holding a square piece of wood.

I never use my second hand to hold the handle of big knives of machetes.
Never felt the need for that.
Do you cup the pommel with the second hand or really grab the lower part of the handle?

Not sure if a leaf shape is a much better stabber than the Bowie style tip.
Could depend on how the tips and edge geometry are crafted.
One dagger is not the other, same for Bowie shape style.
Both do well in stabbing.
The broad leaf does have a strong tip.
Many Bowie shaped tips were a bit fragile in my opinion.
Though this is not always the case either.
So different knives different outcomes.

You have a taste for natural materials.
Nice classic looks. Wood, staghorn.
I have seen a lot of Stag on German knives.
Also on German markets.
A friend of mine lives in Münster, formerly in Lippstadt.
And saw it when we went walking around the place.

Your father, ... yes you got these kind of people.
They can make things ,like you say, technically gifted.
It is a wonderful gift to have. Impressive .
:)

Parangs are pure choppers.
Like you I feel like the knife or machete should have a stabber on the point as well.
Then again, those Parangs have their strength on their own to be respected.
D2, isn't that too brittle for a large blade?
Or does it hold op fine.

The Trail Master definitely looks cool.
No doubt about that.
If given a tougher handle material it would be certainly be an option for me.
Though 8 mm is a bit too much maybe?

The shortness of handles has more to do with width of the hand. But maybe most preference.
I also like a little longer handles better than short.
The Condor handles ,like the Bolo machete or Barong machete have quite short handles.
The Condor Barong machete handle being almost round.
I don't like it.
I like the oval handle shape so you can place the edge more easily.
Have better control over aiming the edge.
The Condor Bolo has a weird sharp corner on the upper back of the pommel, it sticks into the hand.
Not comfortable.
It should have been rounded.

(stories get a bit on the long side,sorry for that)
 
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