Quick combi diamond plate comparison

HeavyHanded

HeavyHanded

Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
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A quick write up / comparison of a couple of combination diamond stones.
The Ultrasharp 300/1200
DMD 400/1200
and the DMT duosharp C/F for a baseline


D74Dj2i.jpg



Since the DMT is so well known I'm going to focus on the other two. My version of the DMD is a branded unit from Foss, a speedskate mfg and the stone was marketed for such. Non-branded versions are on big river for about half what I paid.:mad:

I tested these with a high carbon chisel and an EKA 12c27 knife.

In order of coarseness:
Ultrasharp 300
DMD 400
DMT C
Ultrasharp 1200
DMT F
DMD 1200

Ultrasharp 300 is fastest by a clear margin, scratch pattern is more aggressive than the other two but not by much. Probably runs dead between a DMT XC and C. It seems to have a very good bond to the plate. Flattened out the back of the chisel and reset the face in minutes. It likewise reprofiled the 12c in half the time it took on the DMD or DMT.
DMD 400 was about as fast as the DMT, finish only a little more coarse then DMT C.
I didn't test the chisel edge at this point, but all three knife edges could shave armhair and shearcut crossgrain fine catalog paper. Performance was in a line with the scratch pattern, but all three made a clean edge with little fussing.

Off the Ultrasharp 1200 the chisel could just make clean passes across endgrain pine. Not to a wet look, but close. With a handful of passes on a washboard strop it could pass the endgrain pine probably better than it came from the factory. Passes along the gran yielded nice thin curls.

DMT F had similar performance, maybe a touch more refined.

The DMD 1200 was a bit more refined yet, still not passing the "wet looking endgrain" test off the stone but with a bit of stropping was able to do so. Edge finish is probably just shy of the DMT EF.

Performance on the 12c was also similar - all edges could shave armhair and now crosscut catalog paper without needing to shear. DMD was the quietest doing so, but not to any large degree.The Ultrasharp was fastest again, producing a somewhat less refined edge but doing so much more rapidly than the other two plates - a good trade off.

All in all am liking the Ultrasharp combi stone and it will likely take the place of or be used interchangeably with the other two stones in applications where the edge finish is going to be part of a longer progression. The speed is a big factor - it is faster than the DMT is faster than the DMD. It is the only one of the three I could consider using for chisels or plane irons. On knives one could set up for a microbevel in less time than the other two stones and at a finish level where the differences will be inconsequential.

The DMD stone is a good value too, especially for the $. Even overpaying it is the cheapest of the three. I suspect it will not have the longevity of the DMT or Ultrasharp but seems to be holding up well so far. To date has seen more use than the other stones and does not appear to be suffering any ill effects. It may be relegated to a travel stone, as it is the lightest of the bunch - even lighter than the duosharp. I was able to stash a small piece of compound in the base as an added bonus.
 
This is a useful evaluation, thanks for the write-up. So basically for folks wanting to learn to freehand with diamonds, there are budget, medium, and higher priced offerings to pick from. And there's not such a huge gulf between them performance-wise that you couldn't get good results even with the budget option.

Two practical follow-up Q's:
  1. To a beginning freehander who posts here in the forum asking what diamonds to start with and wanting to keep cost down, you think the DMD is a safe bet?
  2. If the cost difference between the Ultrasharp and say a similar 2-grit DMT duosharp was around $20 to $25 (which I think it actually is), which one would you choose after using both?
 
maximus83 said:
This is a useful evaluation, thanks for the write-up. So basically for folks wanting to learn to freehand with diamonds, there are budget, medium, and higher priced offerings to pick from. And there's not such a huge gulf between them performance-wise that you couldn't get good results even with the budget option.

Two practical follow-up Q's:
  1. To a beginning freehander who posts here in the forum asking what diamonds to start with and wanting to keep cost down, you think the DMD is a safe bet?
  2. If the cost difference between the Ultrasharp and say a similar 2-grit DMT duosharp was around $20 to $25 (which I think it actually is), which one would you choose after using both?
Click to expand...

The DMD is great because its so cheap and frankly I am impressed with how durable it has proven to be. I've done many high carbide recurves on the outside edge and it hasn't really lost anything. I've also beaten on it with some plane irons and other tools and not babied it at all. In the long run I cannot imagine it holding up as well but who knows - these haven't been on the market that long from what I can tell, so at least you get more than what you paid for but you didn't pay much. IDK

The Ultrasharp seems like a real beast and would likely hold up to more abuse than a DMT. Again, IDK but being that its broken in and still grinds fast and uniform is a very good sign. I can see some folks thinking it isn't a one stone solution as the 1200 side is still pretty rough. As long as they understand what's in the box they should be pretty happy with it.

To me it at least as good a value as the DMT. For my purposes it is better as I seldom stop right off the DMT F anyway.
 
Glad to see this. Im a long time DMT user but am always looking for other good stones.. Ive been laying off order that very ultra sharp stone. Ive heard good reports on its durability. I think Im going to try it out.
 
Kentucky said:
Glad to see this. Im a long time DMT user but am always looking for other good stones.. Ive been laying off order that very ultra sharp stone. Ive heard good reports on its durability. I think Im going to try it out.
Click to expand...

I wish I could say more about longevity and such but I honestly can't. I don't want to be the guy who recommends beyond what I can vouch for, but so far the Ultrasharp is a beast. If you've heard good things about durability, I can't contradict it and expect to come to the same conclusion.
 
HeavyHanded said:
A quick write up / comparison of a couple of combination diamond stones.
The Ultrasharp 300/1200
DMD 400/1200
and the DMT duosharp C/F for a baseline


D74Dj2i.jpg



Since the DMT is so well known I'm going to focus on the other two. My version of the DMD is a branded unit from Foss, a speedskate mfg and the stone was marketed for such. Non-branded versions are on big river for about half what I paid.:mad:

I tested these with a high carbon chisel and an EKA 12c27 knife.

In order of coarseness:
Ultrasharp 300
DMD 400
DMT C
Ultrasharp 1200
DMT F
DMD 1200

Ultrasharp 300 is fastest by a clear margin, scratch pattern is more aggressive than the other two but not by much. Probably runs dead between a DMT XC and C. It seems to have a very good bond to the plate. Flattened out the back of the chisel and reset the face in minutes. It likewise reprofiled the 12c in half the time it took on the DMD or DMT.
DMD 400 was about as fast as the DMT, finish only a little more coarse then DMT C.
I didn't test the chisel edge at this point, but all three knife edges could shave armhair and shearcut crossgrain fine catalog paper. Performance was in a line with the scratch pattern, but all three made a clean edge with little fussing.

Off the Ultrasharp 1200 the chisel could just make clean passes across endgrain pine. Not to a wet look, but close. With a handful of passes on a washboard strop it could pass the endgrain pine probably better than it came from the factory. Passes along the gran yielded nice thin curls.

DMT F had similar performance, maybe a touch more refined.

The DMD 1200 was a bit more refined yet, still not passing the "wet looking endgrain" test off the stone but with a bit of stropping was able to do so. Edge finish is probably just shy of the DMT EF.

Performance on the 12c was also similar - all edges could shave armhair and now crosscut catalog paper without needing to shear. DMD was the quietest doing so, but not to any large degree.The Ultrasharp was fastest again, producing a somewhat less refined edge but doing so much more rapidly than the other two plates - a good trade off.

All in all am liking the Ultrasharp combi stone and it will likely take the place of or be used interchangeably with the other two stones in applications where the edge finish is going to be part of a longer progression. The speed is a big factor - it is faster than the DMT is faster than the DMD. It is the only one of the three I could consider using for chisels or plane irons. On knives one could set up for a microbevel in less time than the other two stones and at a finish level where the differences will be inconsequential.

The DMD stone is a good value too, especially for the $. Even overpaying it is the cheapest of the three. I suspect it will not have the longevity of the DMT or Ultrasharp but seems to be holding up well so far. To date has seen more use than the other stones and does not appear to be suffering any ill effects. It may be relegated to a travel stone, as it is the lightest of the bunch - even lighter than the duosharp. I was able to stash a small piece of compound in the base as an added bonus.
Click to expand...

Kind of off-topic but as you mentioned the speed skating thing.

Are you, or is anyone, aware of ice skate manufacturers that make a point of using higher quality steel in their skates?

I live in Canada and from what I see everyone sharpens their skates with this horrible machine that throws sparks for way too long and surely kills any heat treat that mystery skate steel might have had. The worst ones are actually automatic like this one.
skate-sharpening-machine-2001.jpg


I have long wondered about skates or skis produced with steel good enough for them to mention what it is.
 
Lapedog said:
Kind of off-topic but as you mentioned the speed skating thing.

Are you, or is anyone, aware of ice skate manufacturers that make a point of using higher quality steel in their skates?

I live in Canada and from what I see everyone sharpens their skates with this horrible machine that throws sparks for way too long and surely kills any heat treat that mystery skate steel might have had. The worst ones are actually automatic like this one.
skate-sharpening-machine-2001.jpg


I have long wondered about skates or skis produced with steel good enough for them to mention what it is.
Click to expand...


I wish I knew. When my kids were doing hockey, the skates were sharpened perpendicular on a 6 or 4" wheel to produce a slight concave profile. Speed skates are flat across the bottom. I'm assuming any 'improvements' in stainless alloy is for rust resistance and not because the steel was HT'd for toughness. I really don't know. The speed skate jigs are for use on hand stones, deburred by hand, and more attention is paid to the arc of the rocker than anything. India stones feature prominently, diamonds being offered as much for ease of use/maintenance as anything else.
 
Heavy, ok I thank you for taking the time and effort for this topic on these Forums. But many stone materials can have good results on those steels. If I were going to show some new diamond stones were of good quality, I would have chosen steels with high vanadium carbides. Then these 'new' plates did as Good as these 'Name brands'. DM
 
David Martin said:
Heavy, ok I thank you for taking the time and effort for this topic on these Forums. But many stone materials can have good results on those steels. If I were going to show some new diamond stones were of good quality, I would have chosen steels with high vanadium carbides. Then these 'new' plates did as Good as these 'Name brands'. DM
Click to expand...

Yes, I should go back and try them on some high Vanadium steel. From my POV if they work on anything they'll work about the same on high VC steel but only one way to prove that.
 
HH, if you have time to do it and enough test mule blades on hand, yeah that would be really interesting. I'd love to see tests on something S30 or S35, and m390 or 20cv, and maybe something higher VC like s90.
 
Just my thinking. You don't have to do anything more if you don't want to or have the time. We all have a life and do a lot for Blade Forums. I'll let it be your call as you do a lot already. DM
 
David Martin said:
Just my thinking. You don't have to do anything more if you don't want to or have the time. We all have a life and do a lot for Blade Forums. I'll let it be your call as you do a lot already. DM
Click to expand...

Absolutely, no pressure from us. I know that first hand, all this "experimenting" takes time. ;) But if you decide to do it, I'm interested enough in your results that I'll loan a test mule blade if you need one. What's not to like? Good test results, a knife sharpened by HH.
 
I love my two ultrasharp 1200's. I actually bought two of them, then cut one down the middle and in half so I have several pocket hones. Can you tell that I lose them a lot?
 
Thanks for the offer of test knives!
I have some high VC steels thanks to BC - 10v, s110v, and I have my own samples of s30v.

I also have a bunch of knives I need to sharpen for other folks and have started getting in some more hair shears.

At some point I'll get back to it and work with the super steels, I might even use these plates on some of the knives I have to sharpen, but none are high VC...
 
DaveDM said:
Any update on how the DMD and Ultrasharp held up?
Click to expand...

The Ultrasharp has been a reliable beast. I don't even think about it, unless I have a reason to use a different plate I just grab the combi Ultrasharp and a splash of water. Reset edge, flip plate and microbevel, strop on Washboard, done.

Of course this means the DMD gets less use, but I do still break it out from time to time, esp to make use of the fine side, which is noticeably finer than the Ultrasharp. Also worth mentioning I had and used the DMD for some time prior to getting the Ultrasharp.

Honestly if you only sharpen for yourself and/or have a limited amount of sharpening, I'd say the DMD is a great value, possibly the best of the lot. It travels well as it is so light weight and has good surface area. I'm always expecting the surface to begin breaking down but it cleans up great with some Barkeepers Friend and still looks like new. No dulling/greying of the surface even along the outside edges, which to me says its holding its diamonds well.
 
I have a dmd 400/1000 that I use for the kitchen for almost a year. No signs of any issues. Cheap functional and very easy to keep in the drawer.
 
I have a 400/1000 that I bought from CKTG a year or two ago. Seems like I've seen the same plate re-branded under other names for sale on the web. Don't know who the manufacturer is. It's a decent plate. I prefer DMT, however.
 
I’ve said this before, but for whatever reason I seem to get a much better edge from the cheap DMD plates than the more expensive DMT plates. No idea why
 
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